Which trait’s do the unborn lack, that they have after they are born?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
That won’t do for him. The problem is he believes they are human so you must convince him they are not, while you believe they are not so he must convince you they are. Neither side has a good proof for the other since each argument is rooted in a belief the other cannot assume to be true.[/quote]
[quote]sufiandy wrote:<<< That won’t do for him. The problem is he believes they are human so you must convince him they are not, while you believe they are not so he must convince you they are. Neither side has a good proof for the other since each argument is rooted in a belief the other cannot assume to be true.[/quote]In the realm of autonomous sinful human reason you sir have just given us the epistemological dilemma of man that I started my thread to discuss.(and we will get back to)
What you have just said is infinitely more correct than even you realize. Except that you have framed it in the context of a debate about abortion in this specific instance. Christians start with God, or at least they should. We do this because we think with the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16) taking every though captive to Him (2 Corinthians 10:5). Or at least we should strive to by our surrender to His perfect infinite truth. He as creator is Himself THE definition of all else. I cannot prove the preceding to you using the so called “scientific method”. The so called “scientific method” itself depends on the preceding for it’s validity as far as it goes. To put it in your terms, you CANNOT assume this to be true. You can’t. Death in sin prevents you.
Unbelievers start with themselves. THEY are the final arbiter of what is true or false and hence right or wrong. Including the God who who created them. They reduce Him to an object of THEIR investigation in the name of an entirely false and delusional scientific objectivity. Rather than assuming the creator to be the source and definition of all, including themselves, they take themselves to be the source and definition of all, including Him. They will of course deny that and refuse to phrase it that way, which is too bad because that IS what it amounts to.
Point? I agree with you and so does God, or actually you agree with Him. A persons firmly held presuppositions DICTATE with an iron fist everything else they think. Everybody has em. It’s just a matter of which ones. Human objectivity is a cruel illusion.
There is mountains of evidence of the devastating emotional and psychological impact that murdering one’s own child in one’s own womb inflicts upon women who do it. There WILL be ever increasing findings of the biological damage caused by unnaturally and violently aborting a pregnancy. None of this will make a bit of difference to these walking talking vaginas who define THEMSELVES that way while jumping up and down snortin n spittin about how pro life, especially Christian men have such a low view of them. Neither will it make any difference to these degenerate pro death men who think they’re countering an argument with false and idiotic stereotypes about cattle and “sammiches”.
Think honestly for a little while. This makes the most sense too. (I’m not gonna let you forget that)
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Easy for me, prove the unborn are NOT alive, distinct, and whole human beings from the moment of conception. Strikingly simple and I like basic.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Is there any information I could give you on this subject that would change your mind on your current stance?[/quote]
[/quote]
They aren’t whole. At conception, they are missing a hell of a lot that would classify them as a whole person. And there is no magic line that says “BAM you’re alive”. You ask for simple, knowing full well that simple doesn’t apply here.[/quote]
But it is an individual human. And yes, it most certainly is alive. Only difference between you and it, as far as human-ness goes, is that you happen to have made it out of your mother’s womb intact and have reached a more advanced stage of development.
There’s a little book called Johnny Got His Gun that, while not written with the intention of serving the point I am hinting at here, does so perfectly.
Anybody want to answer MY question? I asked the High Priestess of the Vagina but she bravely ran away. All of the other posters so far seem eager to change the subject or to focus on low hanging fruit in the hope that we won’t notice nobody addressed my question head on.
So I’ll ask it for a third time now: Just when, exactly, does a conceived human become a human being?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Easy for me, prove the unborn are NOT alive, distinct, and whole human beings from the moment of conception. Strikingly simple and I like basic.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Is there any information I could give you on this subject that would change your mind on your current stance?[/quote]
[/quote]
They aren’t whole. At conception, they are missing a hell of a lot that would classify them as a whole person. And there is no magic line that says “BAM you’re alive”. You ask for simple, knowing full well that simple doesn’t apply here.[/quote]
That won’t do for him. The problem is he believes they are human so you must convince him they are not, while you believe they are not so he must convince you they are. Neither side has a good proof for the other since each argument is rooted in a belief the other cannot assume to be true.[/quote]
Sorry, what argument are you referring to here? Please be clear. You seem to be under the impression you understand what you are talking about. So you should be able to explain yourself. Please do so. I’ll wait.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Point? I agree with you and so does God, or actually you agree with Him. A persons firmly held presuppositions DICTATE with an iron fist everything else they think. Everybody has em. It’s just a matter of which ones. Human objectivity is a cruel illusion.
[/quote]
^^^This is excellent, Tirib.
So was what followed. but I wanted to re-quote this for its poignancy. Good stuff.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all?
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Quite a tiny world you live in junior. But little do you know that everything effects everyone eventually. What sort of society do you want to live in? The exact line you used [quote]Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way.[/quote] Can be used with many other things junior.
“What do I care if someone wants to eliminate retarded people it doesn’t effect my life any.”
“what do I care if someone wants to kill the disabled it doesn’t effect my life any.”
I’m sure you get the idea. Try to wake up and and be a productive and aware member of society. I caution you though that would actually mean caring about what happens to others even though it doesn’t effect your tiny little protein swilling weight lifting world.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]
Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:<<< That won’t do for him. The problem is he believes they are human so you must convince him they are not, while you believe they are not so he must convince you they are. Neither side has a good proof for the other since each argument is rooted in a belief the other cannot assume to be true.[/quote]In the realm of autonomous sinful human reason you sir have just given us the epistemological dilemma of man that I started my thread to discuss.(and we will get back to)
What you have just said is infinitely more correct than even you realize. Except that you have framed it in the context of a debate about abortion in this specific instance. Christians start with God, or at least they should. We do this because we think with the mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16) taking every though captive to Him (2 Corinthians 10:5). Or at least we should strive to by our surrender to His perfect infinite truth. He as creator is Himself THE definition of all else. I cannot prove the preceding to you using the so called “scientific method”. The so called “scientific method” itself depends on the preceding for it’s validity as far as it goes. To put it in your terms, you CANNOT assume this to be true. You can’t. Death in sin prevents you.
Unbelievers start with themselves. THEY are the final arbiter of what is true or false and hence right or wrong. Including the God who who created them. They reduce Him to an object of THEIR investigation in the name of an entirely false and delusional scientific objectivity. Rather than assuming the creator to be the source and definition of all, including themselves, they take themselves to be the source and definition of all, including Him. They will of course deny that and refuse to phrase it that way, which is too bad because that IS what it amounts to.
Point? I agree with you and so does God, or actually you agree with Him. A persons firmly held presuppositions DICTATE with an iron fist everything else they think. Everybody has em. It’s just a matter of which ones. Human objectivity is a cruel illusion.
There is mountains of evidence of the devastating emotional and psychological impact that murdering one’s own child in one’s own womb inflicts upon women who do it. There WILL be ever increasing findings of the biological damage caused by unnaturally and violently aborting a pregnancy. None of this will make a bit of difference to these walking talking vaginas who define THEMSELVES that way while jumping up and down snortin n spittin about how pro life, especially Christian men have such a low view of them. Neither will it make any difference to these degenerate pro death men who think they’re countering an argument with false and idiotic stereotypes about cattle and “sammiches”.
Think honestly for a little while. This makes the most sense too. (I’m not gonna let you forget that)
[/quote]
I don’t think this God your talking about exists so what you said does not make sense.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]
Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.[/quote]
Oh darn that’s not true. Many times the murder victim is referred to as “John Doe” because the court is unaware of what the victims name is, or even if he had one.
Now what?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]
Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.[/quote]
Oh darn that’s not true. Many times the murder victim is referred to as “John Doe” because the court is unaware of what the victims name is, or even if he had one.
Now what?
[/quote]
Do they not have a name, or is the name just unknown?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:<<< Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.[/quote]I must say that your brilliance is more intuitive and less calculated than theirs, but we have another Lifty/Orion type here folks. Tremendous insightful thought one minute, like my quote from the previous page, and then he burps forth utterly brain dead, irrelevant, inconsistent radio static like this. I do however mean it sincerely, and positively, when I say that you have more goin on under the hood than most of the other God hating pagans around here. That has nothing to with intelligence btw. Yours or theirs.
[quote]Cortes wrote:Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]Very VERY good indeed. This guy is the poster child for the death of this nation. “Who gives a flyin **** about anybody but me?” A true product of the sixties. He’ll run away. He’s too busy worshiping his mirror to be up to anything more than shallow uninsightful quips about penises and vaginas. This is our future folks. Too narcissistic to either understand that what is perpetrated upon others DOES effect himself OR to care unless it did. This generation is the end boys and girls. The college age kids of today will bury this country once and for all.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]
Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.[/quote]
Oh darn that’s not true. Many times the murder victim is referred to as “John Doe” because the court is unaware of what the victims name is, or even if he had one.
Now what?
[/quote]
Do they not have a name, or is the name just unknown?[/quote]
So, now the argument has become, “A conceived human becomes a human being from the moment of its naming.”
Have I got that right? No amendments or corrections you’d care to make?
Are us Christians the one’s who are supposed to believe the crazy stuff. I thought you guys were the scientific, rational ones. I have so much trouble keeping all this straight.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]
Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.[/quote]
Oh darn that’s not true. Many times the murder victim is referred to as “John Doe” because the court is unaware of what the victims name is, or even if he had one.
Now what?
[/quote]
Do they not have a name, or is the name just unknown?[/quote]
So, now the argument has become, “A conceived human becomes a human being from the moment of its naming.”
Have I got that right? No amendments or corrections you’d care to make?
Are us Christians the one’s who are supposed to believe the crazy stuff. I thought you guys were the scientific, rational ones. I have so much trouble keeping all this straight.
[/quote]
Just want to know why those who are so quick to call something human at the moment of conception are not so quick to give it other human like qualities we all have, such as a name.
How about it becomes a human when it can live outside the womb, that is a pretty easy answer isn’t it? What’s that about 5 months?
How about after it starts to look like a human being? That’s about 10-12 weeks depending on your version of what a person looks like, maybe a few more weeks, maybe a couple less if you like tadpoles.
I am not sure that you folks will accept anything other than conception as an answer though, even though a zygote is no more a person than a squirrel is, your claim that it is a person is based on faith masquerading as science, and I have already conceded that your faith will remain intact regardless of any evidence provided. So I will piss into the wind anyway…
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Just want to know why those who are so quick to call something human at the moment of conception are not so quick to give it other human like qualities we all have, such as a name.[/quote]
Uh, because I don’t know her name and she hadn’t been given one at the time of her murder.
Are you drunk right now? I’m seriously asking.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Just want to know why those who are so quick to call something human at the moment of conception are not so quick to give it other human like qualities we all have, such as a name.[/quote]
Uh, because I don’t know her name and she hadn’t been given one at the time of her murder.
Are you drunk right now? I’m seriously asking.
[/quote]
Now your not making sense. I wasn’t talking about murder, just naming. Why is it that you don’t know the name? Is it because they don’t have one yet? When is an appropriate time to name a human in your opinion?
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Big_Dave wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
[i]The organization reports that there was an 11 percent decrease in babies born with Down Syndrome between 1989 and 2006, when there should have been an estimated 42 percent increase.[/i]
[/quote]
Is this supposed to be a bad thing? It’s great that people have a choice of whether or not they want to spend their lives raising a down syndrome child. [/quote]
So, feel free to correct me, but I can’t see any other possible way of reading your post than,“Eugenics is great!” There isn’t even an attempt to mask the pure selfish evil of your statement. And yes, I most certainly did use the word evil. Monstrous evil.
Wow. I can’t wait till this thread hits max posts and gets locked out and kneedragger starts a new one; so that all of the people who won’t bother getting into a thread that is so long can start fresh, and see the staggeringly sick ideas of morality that are on full display here.
You do realize who else gets sucked limb from tiny limb through that glass vacuum tube in your lovely little world here, don’t you? Girls. Lots and lots of girls. Do you think that’s also great?
Well now. You have to. Don’t you?
[/quote]
To try to argue that I am in favor of eugenics is disingenuous. I did not state that people should have to abort their fetuses that have genetic abnormalities. I merely said I think it’s great that people have a choice. If you want to raise a child with downs that is your personal choice, but people should not be forced to have children that they do not want.
Why should I care if girl fetuses are aborted? It does not affect my life in any way. If someone doesn’t want a girl or a boy they should have the choice to terminate their pregnancy. Last time I checked you were not the one that was going to have to raise the eventual child, so why do you care so much about something that does not affect you at all? [/quote]
Call me old-fashioned, I’m just not too keen on people indiscriminately murdering other human beings, particularly self-serving murderers who rip the limbs off and suck the brains out of the most innocent among us before tossing the remains into a medical waste bag and throwing it in a bin to rot before disposal.
First: Yes, you most certainly DO support eugenics.
Next: They are HUMAN girls at the fetal stage of development. I understand exactly why you use the word “fetus,” though. You have to.
You wanna stick around for this? I’ll have you admitting to absolute nihilism or twisting yourself into semantic pretzels attempting to stay out of cognitive dissonance. Yes, that is a challenge.
Or, perhaps, you’ll do what so many other of your ilk have done, and bravely run away.
We can start here: Exactly when does a conceived human become a human being?
Since you are so quick with your opinions, certainly you have an answer to this question. Let’s hear it.
[/quote]
Unless your Clint Eastwood in a western movie, humans have names. You will never heard a murder trial verdict read as “for the count of murder of the human with no name, we find the defendant guilty”.[/quote]
Oh darn that’s not true. Many times the murder victim is referred to as “John Doe” because the court is unaware of what the victims name is, or even if he had one.
Now what?
[/quote]
Do they not have a name, or is the name just unknown?[/quote]
We don’t know do we? There are plenty of grave stones that are unnamed. But there’s still a person buried there.
Are you on a break from building out your brothers house? Good thing he’s not paying you huh? If you put the same commitment into that house as you do your Christian faith…well he better keep an eye on you.
[quote]BrianHanson wrote:
How about it becomes a human when it can live outside the womb, that is a pretty easy answer isn’t it? What’s that about 5 months?[/quote]
How about some that are born prematurely before that and actually live?
How about when they can feel pain which is just about immediately?
[quote]I am not sure that you folks will accept anything other than conception as an answer though, even though a zygote is no more a person than a squirrel is, your claim that it is a person is based on faith masquerading as science, and I have already conceded that your faith will remain intact regardless of any evidence provided. So I will piss into the wind anyway…
[/quote]
Well when you speak it makes about as much sense as someone passing wind.
You have to take into consideration that some people are actually (unlike you) not hypocritical. We try to live our faith. We have a really hard time attending a church where we break all of its rules yet still call ourselves Christians. Maybe it’s about having a conscience.