90% of Children with Down Syndrome are Aborted

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Tigger - Find a quote of me in an “emotional appeals” as a response. Please, I challenge you. Or is this going to be another claim that is never backed with evidence? I know the answer already, so no point in even answering. But I welcome you to try ; )

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Whoa there Mak, let’s not interject reason into this discussion now. It’s already overcrowded with all the emotional appeals going on.[/quote]
[/quote]

WTF? Did you just edit this ex-post-facto to make it look like you were talking about emotional appeals the whole time? You realize I stamped in your original wording when I quoted you, right? Seriously, anyone can look just a couple posts up and see that you’ve changed this ^^[1]
DAAAMN

  1. /quote ↩︎

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My apologies tigger, I don’t spend massive amounts of time on these boards. I edited the post shortly after it loaded and you responded as that process was taking place. Yet you can think what ever you would like. I have never made a claim to NOT editing the post, but keep looking for that emotional response, oh wait I have to say it using your words - “emotional appeals.”

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
WTF? Did you just edit this ex-post-facto to make it look like you were talking about emotional appeals the whole time? You realize I stamped in your original wording when I quoted you, right? Seriously, anyone can look just a couple posts up and see that you’ve changed this ^^[1]

  1. /quote ↩︎

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[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
My apologies tigger, I don’t spend massive amounts of time on these boards. I edited the post shortly after it loaded and you responded as that process was taking place. Yet you can think what ever you would like. I have never made a claim to NOT editing the post, but keep looking for that emotional response, oh wait I have to say it using your words - “emotional appeals.”

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
WTF? Did you just edit this ex-post-facto to make it look like you were talking about emotional appeals the whole time? You realize I stamped in your original wording when I quoted you, right? Seriously, anyone can look just a couple posts up and see that you’ve changed this ^^[1]
[/quote]

I don’t have to keep looking. Your first post is a perfect example of emotional appeal. And yes, you have to use “emotional appeal” because that was the claim I made of which you are calling me out on. It would be a straw-man (another logical fallacy) for you to call me out and argue against something I didn’t say.

  1. /quote ↩︎

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Here is the website ‘used for my emotional appeal’ - 90% of Down Syndrome Children Aborted, Survivors Bring Joy - LifeNews.com

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[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Here is the website ‘used for my emotional appeal’ - http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/19/90-of-down-syndrome-children-aborted-survivors-bring-joy/ [/quote]

That’s irrelevant.

566

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Here is the website ‘used for my emotional appeal’ - http://www.lifenews.com/2011/04/19/90-of-down-syndrome-children-aborted-survivors-bring-joy/ [/quote]

That’s irrelevant. [/quote]

He doesn’t understand the concept at play here. If he knew that copying someone elses emotional appeal was still an emotional appeal on his part, he would have attacked you and made some more appeals along with his standard fallacies.

567

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
You are not even making a logical conclusion. Killing a child will never produce anything but death. Should we now kill people because they very well could be GOOD?! There is no contradiction when you chose life. When you kill, that is the exact opposite of life.

By not choosing a side, you let people kill children. I hope you are not confused by that.

How is choosing life irrelevant? I am sincerely asking.

Your last sentence makes no sense. I will bold the contradiction in your post. “For every positive story where a woman chooses life, there is an equal possibility of a negative story out of someone choosing life.” There is an equal possibility of a PPOSITIVE. I will repeat myself again. A person can grow up and do anything, good and bad and even indifferent. Genetics play a small part in an adults behavior. Experience and learning behavior determine what a person will be like as they mature. My father was an alcoholic. What does that mean to me? Nothing! I have to make choices to walk down that path of life.

If a child is born and they were conceived through rape or a violent crime, what does that mean as the child grows? NOTHING!

[quote]therajraj wrote: I actually haven’t made up my mind on the abortion issue hence why I haven’t stated a position.

What I’m saying here is you are making contradictory points in your last couple of posts.

In one instance you give an example where a woman chose to not have an abortion and it produced a positive outcome. In the following post when pressed on whether you would abort Hitler you reply that you never know what the outcome will be until after they are born.

If you admit you cannot know how a person will contribute to society, then the story of the woman who opted against abortion is irrelevant. For every positive story where a woman chooses life, there is an equal possibility of a negative story out of someone choosing life. [/quote]
[/quote]

Reading through this thread I decided it isn’t worth continuing debating with you or explaining my point. Especially after this comment:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:

By not choosing a side, you let people kill children. I hope you are not confused by that.[/quote]

By living in the US and paying taxes to a government that legalizes abortion you are also letting people kill children.I hope you are not confused by that.

amirite?

You might want to consider moving to Chile - abortions are illegal in every circumstance.

568

In other words, you fail at trying to explain your position, one that results in the death of a defenseless child EVERY SINGLE TIME. I am honestly sorry you have no backing to defend and instead you try and take a ground you can’t even stand up in.

I love America, even after visiting Chile last year, there are a large number of people here, like yourself and around the world, who cry when backed into an abortion corner. [You are right raj, I was there last year for four months and I posted here about their anti-abortion laws] I would cry too, if language no longer helped me defend an evil and horrendous act.

I am not even trying to trick you into a playful game, of say cat and mouse. I would have just asked you to understand the language you would then use, defending an ignorant position. Instead you turn tail and hide, cowering like a scared little child. Is that a puddle I see, under your feet?

“amirite?”

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Reading through this thread I decided it isn’t worth continuing debating with you or explaining my point. Especially after this comment:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:

By not choosing a side, you let people kill children. I hope you are not confused by that.[/quote]

By living in the US and paying taxes to a government that legalizes abortion you are also letting people kill children.I hope you are not confused by that.

amirite?

You might want to consider moving to Chile - abortions are illegal in every circumstance.[/quote]

569

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:

I love America, even after visiting Chile last year, there are a large number of people here, like yourself and around the world, who cry when backed into an abortion corner.
[/quote]

That corner only exists in your mind and is of your own making.

Noone is obligated to join you in your self devised trap.

570

So now you are telling me what MY opinions are? Are things going really well right now in America? Not really, but they are not that bad. But I have to remain optimistic.

I am asking a simple question because I have a simple mind, where is this “self devised trap?”

[quote]orion wrote:
That corner only exists in your mind and is of your own making.

Noone is obligated to join you in your self devised trap. [/quote]

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The â??1%â??: Planned Parenthood execs making more than $250K per year

WASHINGTON, D.C., January 9, 2012 (LifeSiteNews.com) - Earlier this year Planned Parenthood President Cecile Richards defended her nearly $400,000 annual salary, saying she works â??hardâ?? for it. But it turns out that Richards isnâ??t the only employee of the taxpayer-funded charity making a salary several times the national average.

A Planned Parenthood CEO Report based on IRS tax filings, released by American Life Leagueâ??s STOPP International, shows that many CEOs and top executives of Planned Parenthood are paid annual incomes above that $250,000 mark - the benchmark that the White House has defined as denoting a â??millionaire,â?? or the â??top one percent of income earnersâ?? that do not pay their fair share of taxes needed to help the less fortunate.

â??Our research shows 88 percent of PP affiliate CEOs have no healthcare backgrounds,â?? said Jim Sedlak, vice president of American Life League and co-author of the report. â??But, they pay themselves quite well to claim they are first and foremost a critical healthcare provider to the poor.â??

In the 2011 budget fight, President Obama warned he would shut down the U.S. government before letting House Speaker John Boehner present any budget that tried to cut off federal funds to the worldâ??s largest abortion chain and one of the presidentâ??s most powerful political supporters. According to PPâ??s own annual report, the group gets almost one-half billion dollarsâ??or 50%â??of its revenue from taxpayer funds.

The report shows that the average salary of a CEO at a Planned Parenthood affiliate is $158,275. This falls in the top six percent of all household incomes in the United States. Thirty of the top executives receive salaries in excess of $200,000 (the top 2.67 percent of household income), while 18 of the executives rank in the top 1.5 percent with annual incomes in excess of $250,000.

Furthermore, detailed profiles included in the report show that of 81 PP affiliates studied, just 10 PP affiliates have CEOs (12 percent) who actually have a background in healthcare. Planned Parenthood receives almost half a billion dollars in tax subsidies to provide what it defines as â??reproductive healthcare.â??

â??At a time when the economy is in trouble and the American taxpayer provides 46 percent of Planned Parenthoodâ??s income,â?? said Rob Gasper, senior researcher at ALL and co-author of the report, â??it is incredible that the top eight people at PPâ??s headquartersâ??who provide no actual healthcare and never see a single clientâ??make an average of $269,541 a year.â??

The debate continues to rage about continued taxpayer funding of Planned Parenthood as a Congressional investigation for fraud looms. ALL says it did the research so that elected officials would be better informed about â??giving tax dollars of hard-working and struggling Americans to the bloated giant which is Planned Parenthood.â??

BY: LifeSiteNews.com

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[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So now you are telling me what MY opinions are? Are things going really well right now in America? Not really, but they are not that bad. But I have to remain optimistic.

I am asking a simple question because I have a simple mind, where is this “self devised trap?”

[quote]orion wrote:
That corner only exists in your mind and is of your own making.

Noone is obligated to join you in your self devised trap. [/quote]
[/quote]

Human life = human being therefore abortion = murder.

If you insist on putting processes of development that are necessary gradual in neat little black and white boxes of course everyone else “paints himself into a corner”.

Looking out from you little boxes the whole world is one giant corner.

573

orion, I am honestly glad you understand this correct and accurate logic. I am constantly amazed that some people and posters on these boards do NOT understand the language they speak. I have even caught people with their own words and they then cry because I am using semantics. I am sure to the outsider it looks like I am painting myself into a corner, that would be because abortion is ALWAYS murder!

Then there are people who then claim the state gives them the ability to abort a child. Well, racism was prevalent in America one hundred years ago, we tried prohibition and at one time slavery was common during this Republic’s inception. How did those events work out? Those atrocities were stopped and people became freer, as a result. Please don’t forget the Second World War was fought because Germans were slaughtering Jews by the millions. As a spine tingling side note, the number of abortions is rapidly approaching the exact same number.

[quote]orion wrote:
Human life = human being therefore abortion = murder.

If you insist on putting processes of development that are necessary gradual in neat little black and white boxes of course everyone else “paints himself into a corner”.

Looking out from you little boxes the whole world is one giant corner.

[/quote]

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[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
orion, I am honestly glad you understand this correct and accurate logic. I am constantly amazed that some people and posters on these boards do NOT understand the language they speak. I have even caught people with their own words and they then cry because I am using semantics. I am sure to the outsider it looks like I am painting myself into a corner, that would be because abortion is ALWAYS murder!

Then there are people who then claim the state gives them the ability to abort a child. Well, racism was prevalent in America one hundred years ago, we tried prohibition and at one time slavery was common during this Republic’s inception. How did those events work out? Those atrocities were stopped and people became freer, as a result. Please don’t forget the Second World War was fought because Germans were slaughtering Jews by the millions. As a spine tingling side note, the number of abortions is rapidly approaching the exact same number.

[quote]orion wrote:
Human life = human being therefore abortion = murder.

If you insist on putting processes of development that are necessary gradual in neat little black and white boxes of course everyone else “paints himself into a corner”.

Looking out from you little boxes the whole world is one giant corner.

[/quote]
[/quote]

I understand that it is correct logic if you accept the underlying assumptions.

No one is obligated to do that.

I would also suggest that an either or approach is necessarily flawed when it comes to what is a continuum from a single cell organism to a full fledged human being.

I see your argument as a failure to adapt to the realities of the situation by adopting a more fuzzy approach to a fuzzy topic.

575

I have yet to have one person here or IRL do anything more than give an opinion, like whole milk versus two percent. I see no “fuzzy approach to a fuzzy topic.” Rather than give me an opinion, prove to me the embryo has one single characteristic different from another human walking around today, except for these four simple characteristics. I will type them again - size, level of development, environment and degree of dependency. These traits are not only used to describe the differences between the unborn and people walking around. The exact same traits describe the differences between each person walking the earth today.

[quote]orion wrote:
I understand that it is correct logic if you accept the underlying assumptions.

No one is obligated to do that.

I would also suggest that an either or approach is necessarily flawed when it comes to what is a continuum from a single cell organism to a full fledged human being.

I see your argument as a failure to adapt to the realities of the situation by adopting a more fuzzy approach to a fuzzy topic. [/quote]

576

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I have yet to have one person here or IRL do anything more than give an opinion, like whole milk versus two percent. I see no “fuzzy approach to a fuzzy topic.” Rather than give me an opinion, prove to me the embryo has one single characteristic different from another human walking around today, except for these four simple characteristics. I will type them again - size, level of development, environment and degree of dependency. These traits are not only used to describe the differences between the unborn and people walking around. The exact same traits describe the differences between each person walking the earth today.

[quote]orion wrote:
I understand that it is correct logic if you accept the underlying assumptions.

No one is obligated to do that.

I would also suggest that an either or approach is necessarily flawed when it comes to what is a continuum from a single cell organism to a full fledged human being.

I see your argument as a failure to adapt to the realities of the situation by adopting a more fuzzy approach to a fuzzy topic. [/quote]
[/quote]

Yes, they do, and yet, if someone has the intellectual capacities of a human fertilized egg he is considered to be clinically dead.

It is a matter of degrees and the only thing we can do is to draw a line at some point, which will necessarily be arbitrary.

You would describe someone as strong that has the same abilities other people have just more so. The same is true for intelligent, compassionate, whatever.

Somehow, when it comes to what is a complete human being your power of acknowledging that degrees fails you.

577

Intellect is not one of the criteria that defines life.

[quote]orion wrote:
Yes, they do, and yet, if someone has the intellectual capacities of a human fertilized egg he is considered to be clinically dead.

It is a matter of degrees and the only thing we can do is to draw a line at some point, which will necessarily be arbitrary.

You would describe someone as strong that has the same abilities other people have just more so. The same is true for intelligent, compassionate, whatever.

Somehow, when it comes to what is a complete human being your power of acknowledging that degrees fails you. [/quote]

578

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Intellect is not one of the criteria that defines life.

[quote]orion wrote:
Yes, they do, and yet, if someone has the intellectual capacities of a human fertilized egg he is considered to be clinically dead.

It is a matter of degrees and the only thing we can do is to draw a line at some point, which will necessarily be arbitrary.

You would describe someone as strong that has the same abilities other people have just more so. The same is true for intelligent, compassionate, whatever.

Somehow, when it comes to what is a complete human being your power of acknowledging that degrees fails you. [/quote]
[/quote]

No, but I waste no time crying over apples that are devoured while being very much alive.

Alive, in and of itself is meaningless.

579

You cannot compare humanity to fruit, or even if you were to use that example, killing fetuses to eating apples. Fruit never has the potential to think, to feel pain and joy, to have faith, to love. You are grasping at straws if you’ve stooped to comparing human life with inanimate fruit.

[quote]orion wrote:
No, but I waste no time crying over apples that are devoured while being very much alive.

Alive, in and of itself is meaningless. [/quote]

580

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
You cannot compare humanity to fruit, or even if you were to use that example, killing fetuses to eating apples. Fruit never has the potential to think, to feel pain and joy, to have faith, to love. You are grasping at straws if you’ve stooped to comparing human life with inanimate fruit.

[quote]orion wrote:
No, but I waste no time crying over apples that are devoured while being very much alive.

Alive, in and of itself is meaningless. [/quote]
[/quote]

He’s playing your game here. If you don’t want to be drawn into semantics games, don’t play them.