90% of Children with Down Syndrome are Aborted


I know abortion will never solve the atrocities of a rape. Tearing a human apart limb from limb while in the only home a child knows is one of the worst crimes in human history. Here is a story about a young woman who chose LIFE!

'SAN CLEMENTE, Calif. (AP) ’ For most of her 100 years, Minka Disbrow tried to find out what became of the precious baby girl she gave up for adoption after being raped as a teen.

She hoped, but never imagined, she’d see her Betty Jane again.

The cruel act of violence bore in Disbrow an enduring love for the child. She kept a black and white photograph of the baby bundled in blankets and tucked inside a basket.

It was the last she saw of the girl - until the phone rang in her California apartment in 2006 with the voice of an Alabama man and a story she could have only dreamed.

Disbrow, the daughter of Dutch immigrants, weathered a harsh childhood milking cows on South Dakota dairy farms. Her stepfather thought high school was for city kids who had nothing else to do. She finished eighth grade in a country schoolhouse with just one teacher and worked long hours at the dairy.

On a summer day in 1928 while picnicking with girls from a sewing class, Disbrow and her friend Elizabeth were jumped by three men as they went for a walk in their long dresses.

Both were raped.

“We didn’t know what to do. We didn’t know what to say. So when we went back, nothing was said,” Disbrow recalled.

Months passed. Her body began to change.

Disbrow, who had been told babies were brought by storks, didn’t know what was happening.

Her mother and stepfather sent her to a Lutheran home for pregnant girls. At 17, she gave birth to a blond-haired baby with a deep dimple in her chin and named her Betty Jane.

In her heart, Disbrow longed to keep her. But her head and her mother told her she couldn’t bring an infant back to the farm.

A pastor and his wife were looking to adopt a child. She hoped they could give Betty Jane the home she couldn’t.

“I loved that baby so much. I wanted what was best,” Disbrow said.

She never met them, or knew their names. But over the years, Disbrow wrote dozens of letters to the adoption agency to find out how her daughter was faring. The agency replied faithfully with updates until there was a change in management, and they eventually lost touch.

Disbrow’s life went on. She married a fruit salesman who became a wartime pilot and drafting engineer and they had two children. She worked as a dressmaker, silk saleswoman and school cafeteria manager in cities spanning from Rhode Island to Minnesota and Northern California before moving to the seaside town of San Clemente an hour’s drive north of San Diego.

Every year, she thought about Betty Jane on her May 22 birthday.

Five years ago, Disbrow prayed she might get the chance to see her.

“Lord, if you would just let me see her,” Disbrow remembers praying. “I promise you I will never bother her.”

On July 2, the phone rang.

It was a man from Alabama. He started asking Disbrow, then 94, about her background.

Worried about identity theft, Disbrow cut him off, and peppered him with questions.

Then, the man asked if she’d like to speak with Betty Jane.

Her name was now Ruth Lee. She had been raised by a Norwegian pastor and his wife and had gone on to marry and have six children including the Alabama man, a teacher and astronaut Mark Lee, a veteran of four space flights who has circled the world 517 times. She worked for nearly 20 years at Walmart - and especially enjoyed tending to the garden area.

Lee knew she was adopted her whole life, and grew up a happy child.

It wasn’t until she was in her 70s that the search for her biological parents began.

Lee started suffering from heart problems and doctors asked about the family’s medical history. She knew nothing about it. Her son, Brian, decided to try to find out more and petitioned the court in South Dakota for his mother’s adoption records.

He got a stack of more than 270 pages including a written account of the assault and handwritten letters from a young Disbrow, asking about the tiny baby she had cradled for a month.

He then went online to try to find one of Disbrow’s relatives â?? possibly through an obituary.

“I was looking for somebody I thought was probably not living,” said Lee’s now-54-year-old son. He typed Disbrow’s name into a web directory and was shocked when a phone listing popped up. “I kind of stopped breathing for a second.”

On the phone with her biological daughter, Disbrow was in disbelief. Her legs began to tremble. She couldn’t understand how a native dairy farm girl without an education could have such accomplished grandchildren.

A month later, Ruth Lee and Brian Lee flew to California. They arrived at Disbrow’s meticulous apartment on a palm tree-lined street armed with a gigantic bouquet of flowers.

Disbrow couldn’t get over how Lee’s hands were like her mother’s. Lee was amazed at the women’s similar taste in clothing. They pored over family photo albums and caught up on the years Disbrow had missed.

“It was just like we had never parted,” Disbrow said. “Like you were with the family all your life.”

Since then, the families have met numerous times. Disbrow has gone to visit grandchildren and great-grandchildren in Wisconsin and Texas. She is planning to travel to Alabama in the spring, where they will celebrate her recently marked 100th birthday.

Disbrow has started sharing her story with members of her church and community. The Orange County Register ran a story about Disbrow’s journey in December. The family’s improbable reunion also made the local newspaper in Viroqua, Lee’s hometown in western Wisconsin.

“It has been such a surreal, amazing experience that I still think sometimes that I will wake up and it will just be a beautiful dream,” the 82-year-old Lee said.

Disbrow’s daughter Dianna Huhn, 65, of Portland, Ore., said the reunion has filled a void for her mother - one that for many years, the sharp, stylish woman with sparkling blue eyes kept a deep, dark secret.

“I have never seen my mother as happy,” said Huhn.’

But would you have aborted Hitler?

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
It’s pretty tasteless to take this child (whoever did that, not the OP) and make him the medium of some political message. It’s exploitation. Pure and simple. [/quote]

They should have just killed him instead.[/quote]

Wait, we either have to shamelessly exploit handicapped people or outright kill them?

Damn, thats harsh.

Who knew?

[/quote]

I bet you thank God you are a proud part of that 10%.

Sarcasm is lost on you mm, is it not?

[quote]method_man wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
It’s pretty tasteless to take this child (whoever did that, not the OP) and make him the medium of some political message. It’s exploitation. Pure and simple. [/quote]

They should have just killed him instead.[/quote]

Wait, we either have to shamelessly exploit handicapped people or outright kill them?

Damn, thats harsh.

Who knew?

[/quote]

I bet you thank God you are a proud part of that 10%.[/quote]

You can NEVER know how a child will grow and contribute to society, especially as an adult! Experience and learning determine the adult a child will become. Thank you for trying to catch someone with your loaded question, it was honestly at the kindergartner level.

Please try to argue “your” side or the pro-choice case by showing how the unborn are not alive. That would allow you to convert me to your view.

[quote]method_man wrote:
But would you have aborted Hitler?[/quote]

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
You can NEVER know how a child will grow and contribute to society, especially as an adult! Experience and learning determine the adult a child will become.
[/quote]

Exactly.

So giving examples of women who chose life (and produced a child productive to society) to support your argument is nothing but a fallacy.

“I have only seen white swans, therefore black swans do not exist.”

No way around it raj but you are completely wrong! Abortion results in murder of a child every single time. If a woman has an abortion and the child survives the attempt to murder a defenseless human, the baby is left on a cold table to die. A slow and tortured death!

I shared a story about a woman who was raped and decided to give the child up for adoption. You know that rape is often used as a “justification case” of abortion. The story was about LIFE.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
You can NEVER know how a child will grow and contribute to society, especially as an adult! Experience and learning determine the adult a child will become.
[/quote]

Exactly.

So giving examples of women who chose life (and produced a child productive to society) to support your argument is nothing but a fallacy.

“I have only seen white swans, therefore black swans do not exist.”[/quote]

My apologies for taking you at your word. According to the National Association for Down Syndrome the cause for “Down syndrome is usually caused by an error in cell division called nondisjunction. It is not known why this occurs. However, it is known that the error occurs at conception and is not related to anything the mother did during pregnancy. It has been known for some time that the incidence of Down syndrome increases with advancing maternal age.” Yet I also find it more than enlightening that “80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under 35 years of age.” So age has little to do with a mother having a child with Down Syndrome.

http://www.nads.org/pages_new/facts.html

According to “National Down Syndrome Society” - The incidence of births of children with Down syndrome increases with the age of the mother. But due to higher fertility rates in younger women, 80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under 35 years of age.

Now these two sources were literally the first two after a google search. I refuse to research a claim you make. If you don’t believe me, here is my search - Google - I searched for ‘down syndrome facts’ but I challenge you to back your claim, with recent data.

[quote]MaudDib wrote: Down syndrome births in the United States from 1989 to 2001. Egan JF - Am J Obstet Gynecol - 01-SEP-2004; 191(3): 1044-8.

Maternal Age Related Risks
Mom’s Age Risk for trisomy 21 (Down syndrome) Risk for all triomies
20 1 in 1,667 1 in 526
. . . . Ages between 20 and 49 and statistics from '04
49 1 in 11 1 in 8

Not that I exactly have a PhD in statistics but I think that data suggests a pretty high confidence level for a mother’s age predicting the incidence of trisomies. I never said age of the mother causes DS in 100% of pregnancies, but when the likelihood increases exponentially, testing is a good idea. It’s a good idea even if you wouldn’t choose to abort the pregnancy because

a. it allows you to begin planning sooner for the financial and medical/care ramifications of raising a special needs child

b. age of the mother is associated with increased incidence of other trisomies which do not produce viable offspring. In cases where the child has no chance of living it’d be in the interests of the mother’s health not to continue the pregnancy needlessly, especially when considering the high rates of miscarriage which can be life threatening in some cases. [/quote]

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
No way around it raj but you are completely wrong! Abortion results in murder of a child every single time. If a woman has an abortion and the child survives the attempt to murder a defenseless human, the baby is left on a cold table to die. A slow and tortured death!

I shared a story about a woman who was raped and decided to give the child up for adoption. You know that rape is often used as a “justification case” of abortion. The story was about LIFE.

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
You can NEVER know how a child will grow and contribute to society, especially as an adult! Experience and learning determine the adult a child will become.
[/quote]

Exactly.

So giving examples of women who chose life (and produced a child productive to society) to support your argument is nothing but a fallacy.

“I have only seen white swans, therefore black swans do not exist.”[/quote]
[/quote]

I actually haven’t made up my mind on the abortion issue hence why I haven’t stated a position.

What I’m saying here is you are making contradictory points in your last couple of posts.

In one instance you give an example where a woman chose to not have an abortion and it produced a positive outcome. In the following post when pressed on whether you would abort Hitler you reply that you never know what the outcome will be until after they are born.

If you admit you cannot know how a person will contribute to society, then the story of the woman who opted against abortion is irrelevant. For every positive story where a woman chooses life, there is an equal possibility of a negative story out of someone choosing life.

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:“80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under 35 years of age.” So age has little to do with a mother having a child with Down Syndrome.
[/quote]

Couldn’t possibly be the fact that women under 35 probably make up the majority of new mothers.

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:“80% of children with Down syndrome are born to women under 35 years of age.” So age has little to do with a mother having a child with Down Syndrome.
[/quote]

Couldn’t possibly be the fact that women under 35 probably make up the majority of new mothers.[/quote]

Whoa there Mak, let’s not interject reason into this discussion now. It’s already overcrowded with all the emotional appeals going on.

I was going to avoid this thread entirely (Kneedragger started it, after all), but nothing else is going on in PWI so what the hell.

I’m going to take emotion out of the equation entirely. We are at a point right now where natural selection is no longer playing a role in our lives. Genetic conditions that would have been wiped off the face of the earth almost immediately are now carrying on generation after generation. Unless we want to go back to hunter-gatherer tribes, we have to take responsibility for the direction our own species moves in.

At this time there is little we can do in terms of genetic engineering to edit out these issues initially, but we can abort a fetus if there is a known issue. By not aborting a child with a known issue as severe as downs syndrome, you are personally contributing to the genetic deterioration of our species, which is a very selfish decision.

However, I am completely okay with this sort of selfishness. After all, the well-being of our entire species is not the responsibility of any individual by necessity and if they personally feel that having a cognitively impaired child is worth the struggle to parent and the cost to the collective gene-pool then fine, that’s their choice.

I am not in favour of eugenics; as far as I’m concerned it’s the same coin, just flipped upside down. It’s not the state’s choice to make - who should be birthed, who should be aborted, who should be allowed to be parents, etc. But, it goes both ways. If the state has no right to forcefully abort ones child, then it, in turn, also does not have the right to forcefully stop one from getting an abortion.

If you personally wouldn’t abort your child regardless of if they’re only in the ballpark of the proper number of chromosomes, then fine, but if you want your choice to be respected then you must also respect the choice of other parents, lest you be a hypocrite.

You are not even making a logical conclusion. Killing a child will never produce anything but death. Should we now kill people because they very well could be GOOD?! There is no contradiction when you chose life. When you kill, that is the exact opposite of life.

By not choosing a side, you let people kill children. I hope you are not confused by that.

How is choosing life irrelevant? I am sincerely asking.

Your last sentence makes no sense. I will bold the contradiction in your post. “For every positive story where a woman chooses life, there is an equal possibility of a negative story out of someone choosing life.” There is an equal possibility of a PPOSITIVE. I will repeat myself again. A person can grow up and do anything, good and bad and even indifferent. Genetics play a small part in an adults behavior. Experience and learning behavior determine what a person will be like as they mature. My father was an alcoholic. What does that mean to me? Nothing! I have to make choices to walk down that path of life.

If a child is born and they were conceived through rape or a violent crime, what does that mean as the child grows? NOTHING!

[quote]therajraj wrote: I actually haven’t made up my mind on the abortion issue hence why I haven’t stated a position.

What I’m saying here is you are making contradictory points in your last couple of posts.

In one instance you give an example where a woman chose to not have an abortion and it produced a positive outcome. In the following post when pressed on whether you would abort Hitler you reply that you never know what the outcome will be until after they are born.

If you admit you cannot know how a person will contribute to society, then the story of the woman who opted against abortion is irrelevant. For every positive story where a woman chooses life, there is an equal possibility of a negative story out of someone choosing life. [/quote]

Who was I quoting when I wrote that post? Oh that’s right! It was MaudDib. But thanks for your response. He was making the point that older women should have an abortion because their child MIGHT have DS. Thanks for trying though.

[quote]Makavali wrote:
Couldn’t possibly be the fact that women under 35 probably make up the majority of new mothers.[/quote]

Tigger - Find a quote of me in an “emotional appeals” as a response. Please, I challenge you. Or is this going to be another claim that is never backed with evidence? I know the answer already, so no point in even answering. But I welcome you to try ; )

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Whoa there Mak, let’s not interject reason into this discussion now. It’s already overcrowded with all the emotional appeals going on.[/quote]

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Hey there tigger. Fine a quote of me in an emotion response. Please, I challenge you. gol

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Whoa there Mak, let’s not interject reason into this discussion now. It’s already overcrowded with all the emotional appeals going on.[/quote]
[/quote]

… Do you mean aside from your very first post in this thread where you used a child with downs syndrome as the poster-boy for your opinion? Or did you forget about that? =_=

The sharing of a story is not MY emotional repose. Keep digging though ; ) The story can be found with the use of a search engine.

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
… Do you mean aside from your very first post in this thread where you used a child with downs syndrome as the poster-boy for your opinion? Or did you forget about that? =_=[/quote]

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The sharing of a story is not MY emotional repose. Keep digging though ; ) The story can be found with the use of a search engine.

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
… Do you mean aside from your very first post in this thread where you used a child with downs syndrome as the poster-boy for your opinion? Or did you forget about that? =_=[/quote][/quote]

… Wait, you don’t even know what an emotional appeal is, do you? I should have clued in when you started calling it an “emotional response” instead of an “emotional appeal” << which is the one I said and am talking about.

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You << Shit, son. Do some research on logical fallacies before you embarrass yourself like this…

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
The sharing of a story is not MY emotional repose. Keep digging though ; ) The story can be found with the use of a search engine.

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
… Do you mean aside from your very first post in this thread where you used a child with downs syndrome as the poster-boy for your opinion? Or did you forget about that? =_=[/quote][/quote]

… Wait, you don’t even know what an emotional appeal is, do you? I should have clued in when you started calling it an “emotional response” instead of an “emotional appeal” << which is the one I said and am talking about.

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You << Shit, son. Do some research on logical fallacies before you embarrass yourself like this… [/quote]

OWNED!!

[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Tigger - Find a quote of me in an “emotional appeals” as a response. Please, I challenge you. Or is this going to be another claim that is never backed with evidence? I know the answer already, so no point in even answering. But I welcome you to try ; )

[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Whoa there Mak, let’s not interject reason into this discussion now. It’s already overcrowded with all the emotional appeals going on.[/quote]
[/quote]

WTF? Did you just edit this ex-post-facto to make it look like you were talking about emotional appeals the whole time? You realize I stamped in your original wording when I quoted you, right? Seriously, anyone can look just a couple posts up and see that you’ve changed this ^^^