[quote]pushharder wrote:
Funny thing about this thread is the pro-abortion side might’ve thought the Downs Syndrome child scenario would give them leverage in this debate but instead it backfired.[/quote]
We have banners.
And songs…
Our abortion festivals are never a tragic necessity, but always joyous occasions.
You should visit sometimes.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
I had to read this several times before I finally understood it was a joke. Lol. I’m not a native speaker so I’m not sure if I should have picked a word different from “conscious”.
[/quote]
When you say, “I do not support killing conscious people who have been born,” it can reasonably be inferred that you DO support killing unconscious people who have been born.
The point behind all this, including my “and the plot thickens” comment, is that no matter how you pretty your dance moves are on this subject you are always on a slippery slope that ultimately will result in you losing this argument.
[/quote]
If someone will become conscious again it has nothing to do with unconscious fetuses who will never know suffering.
For one I value all life, even insects because of the primal urge for survival and equal treatment of all life forms. At the same time I acknowledge life has no value. If I would have been given the choice to have been aborted at an unconscious point as a fetus (yeah I realize this statement contradicts itself but I hope your minds are multidimensional enough to get my point) I would have gladly chosen to be terminated because life is pointless. I have 2 reasons not to commit a suicide. 1. because my loved ones would suffer and 2. I have a natural urge to live.
Have you considered life might not be a “good thing”? Not everyone likes to have be born. I think it is cruel to force life. And if one will never become conscious to realize there is life, then there is absolutely no harm done if one were aborted. The only thing that matters is the people who already live.
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
Raw Finn - A baby cannot be conscious until something like twelve weeks after being born. Should we kill a child after birth? 2) I was in a coma for six weeks. Guess how many Dr.'s thought I would wake from my severe traumatic brain injury? Not one! 3) What MIGHT happen in the future is pointless. Argue about the present. That much is known. 4) What event christens rights upon a person going down an eight inch canal? 5) “Morality is an opinion based thing.” Morality is something you lack. 6) At the moment of conception, people have all the exact same traits as any other person, save four. Size, level of development, environment and degree of dependency. Those traits can be used to define the differences between every person on the earth today AND used to define the differences of the unborn.
push - GOOD points thus far and again, I agree with all of your points on this thread.
[/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
…I have my ideology based on the trust towards scientists…
[/quote]
Salient point.
A very sad, sad commentary on how some folks formulate the foundations of their ideology.
[/quote]
And you do it how?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
There are (should) be good reason for an abortion. I think a disability would be one, for instance.[/quote]
Good grief. Do you guys read your posts before hitting send? I highly recommend this. You know how, like, your voice sounds differently when you hear it recorded and played back?
[/quote]
Usually multiple times. What’s your point?
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
…I have my ideology based on the trust towards scientists…
[/quote]
Salient point.
A very sad, sad commentary on how some folks formulate the foundations of their ideology.
[/quote]
That’s fine because the growing consensus among scientists are agreeing that in utero life is human life…It’s kinda tough to deny. It’s not a lizard.[/quote]
Let me finish this sentence: “I have my ideology based on the trust towards scientists” …regarding the development of the consciousness. I only take what they have observed, not their take on ethics.
So telling YOU to understand downs, before you critique a stance related to downs, that is a “loaded question?” That is “rich” ; )
The second portion of my post is related to another post of yours. I asked when/how you believe murder is acceptable. By default, when you believe abortion is acceptable, the slaughter of a unborn human fetus is perfectly justifiable in your mind.
Or do I misunderstand your position?
[quote]orion wrote:
Well, if you venture in the territory of loaded questions you could at least have thrown one or two “innocents” in there.
<— iz disappoint[/quote]
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
If someone will become conscious…
[/quote]
I placed your (partial) statement in italics for a reason. Do you know what it is?
[/quote]
You are very fond of tilted letters.
What did I win?
So please tell me the number of people have been saved by current technologies using Embryonic Stem Cell Research?
Pursuing a technology that has gone no where in two decades seems rather idiotic to me. Or am I wrong in my thought process?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
What if it doesn’t? What if when the majority of people keep a level head about it and won’t abuse technology? Are you really willing to deny half the world’s population a choice and say in the matter on the off-chance a stupid person makes a stupid choice?
Think about it. Would you really rather make a woman a secondclass citizen?[/quote]
So current contraceptives do nothing to women after a period of long term use? How birth control medicines are in fact abortifacients? Learn your position before you jump on a boat going down river.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
Reducing the number of abortions doesn’t start by outlawing abortion but with a change in culture:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So please tell me the number of people have been saved by current technologies using Embryonic Stem Cell Research?
Pursuing a technology that has gone no where in two decades seems rather idiotic to me. Or am I wrong in my thought process?
[/quote]
Totally.
Why do you ask?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
If someone will become conscious…
[/quote]
I placed your (partial) statement in italics for a reason. Do you know what it is?
[/quote]
You are very fond of tilted letters.
What did I win?[/quote]
An all expenses paid “Life is Pointless” tour of the Navajo reservation in northeastern Arizona. There you can counsel pregnant Indian women they are better off murdering their babies in the womb so that they, the unborn, never need suffer the alcoholism, depression, job scarcity, or any other malaise they are likely to encounter in their “pointless lives.”
The Finnish Foundation for Eugenics will put up the dough to create your “experience” in the American Southwest.
Congratulations and don’t forget to send us a postcard.
[/quote]
That sounds rather depressing, your prices are no fun at all…
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
Why is this thread focused on downs syndrome? Should just call it I think eugenics is good or bad because…
I mean if our goal is improving the species we’d be much better served by eliminating a whole host of adults that are trying to pass on inferior genes instead of some downs kids.
You never addressed my first portion, we both know the answer is ZERO!!
How long should we pursue a dead technology? Do you personally fund anything besides your habits?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So please tell me the number of people have been saved by current technologies using Embryonic Stem Cell Research?
Pursuing a technology that has gone no where in two decades seems rather idiotic to me. Or am I wrong in my thought process?
[/quote]
Totally.
Why do you ask?[/quote]