9+ Months of Deca Dick

Pharma
124

Great, thank you Physio

would it help if i emailed you my latest blood work? here it is anyway

Im no expert, clearly, but LH and FSH are low, probably shut down bec of nandrolone and high T

Also Prolactin and progesterone seem v low, so my issue would not an excess of those, or not anymore?

my cycle was;

T 450 week, Deca 250 week, hcg 400 iu 2x week , anastrazole .25 2x week

started oct 3

appetite slowly increased, libido good

around Nov 10, srong girlie emotions and low libido-weak erections, hasnt improved much since

dropped Deca , upped anastrazole to .5

Nov 15: nipples slightly sore puffy

did .75 anastrazole and 40mg tamox once , then

stayed on the T cyp

and .5 anastrazole and 30mg tamox daily for 3 more days

Not much help, so thinking i was crashing Estrogen

still emotions messed up

Nov 18

started B6 , 300mg a day

got some am wood, not 100% but a sign

still doing hcg 2x week

Nov 22: proviron 25mg, anastrazole, tamox

and B6

Nov 24: did 8mg cyalis, it worked, got some wood , then did some 2 days later and not much effect.

Nov 25 Blood test

Nov 29hcg 600, b6 200,

dec 2 hcg proviron 50mg , b6 300

some libido next day but very weak erections

dec 3 b6 300, proviron 50

weak morning wood

I have some pramipexole, cabergoline on hand , but havent touched them before getting some good advice, since progestins levels low

Im wondering if its dopamine related, bec T level was high at 3000, and prolactin -pregesterones low

Im also wondering if i should stay on the T cyp? I was on HRT before, at 180mg a week .

Blood work attached,

its in spanish but it should be self explanatory, if not lemme know and ill translate

Thanks a million, Bro, im sweating bullets right now, praying to get back to normal.

I appreciate any advice or guidance you can provide

best wishes

charlie

125

My first thoughts are to tell you to stop doing things period besides trt dosages of test. Go back to 180 a week split into three injections per week and NO AI or anti prolactin meds. Don’t do anything besides this for three weeks and then we can talk about how you feel. Guys don’t realize how much AAS of any kind can thrash your dopamine receptors and when you play with things that alter your prolactin (ie caber or prami) they also raise your dopamine which further exacerbates the issue. Stop everything but test for a few weeks. Then we shall see how you feel.

You will get better.

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126

ok, will do, makes 100% sense, stop dicking around

will pm you in 3 weeks, thatll be close to xmas!

thank you , best regards

charlie

127

Question… I am having very similar issues off tren… If i take 500 test + 300 tren e, sex drive is very close to zero no matter what dose of caber I take after 3 weeks. I have run tren e twice for 4 week periods each, first time at 400, most recently at 300. First time sex drive was back on about 2 weeks after while cruising, and this time it is almost 4 weeks after last injection and my sex drive is almost completely gone. Cannot get
On 250 test cy, taking 125mg 2xwk
Noticed I had nipple discharge a week or so ago so I started taking caber, which I got from a pretty trusted source. Nipple discharge has really not stopped for some reason even if I take 25mg exemestane and cabergoline 1-1.5mg in a day. (My e2 is not crashed, I can tell)

25 year old male

If you haveany tips I really appreciate it, I am a bit frightened that I may have fucked up my sex drive for a long time

128

I am having a similar problem with trenbolone. So if i take 500 test + 300 tren e, sex drive is very close to zero after 3 weeks no matter what dose of caber I take (tried taking as high as 1 mg ed). I have run tren e twice for 4 week periods each, first time at 400, most recently at 300. First time time sex drive was back on about 2 weeks after while cruising, full swing at 4 wreks. And this time it is almost 4 weeks after last tren injection and my sex drive is almost completely gone. Cannot get hard!
On 250 test cyp, taking 125mg 2x/wk.
Noticed I had nipple discharge if I squeeze a week or so ago so I started taking caber, which I got from a pretty trusted source. Nipple discharge has really not stopped for some reason even if I mess around with 12.5 mg exemestane and cabergoline 1-1.5mg in a day. (My e2 is not crashed, I can tell)

25 year old male

If you have any tips I really appreciate it, I am a bit frightened that I may have fucked up my sex drive for a long time. Not sure if it would be nerve danage, adrenal damage or the prolactin. Can lactation last a long time even if prolactin is normal?
Thinking about getting blood work to see prolactin and cortisol. Test levels are usually right around 1100 and e2 is at like 35 if I am cruising like this.

129

Trenner, the worst thing you can do is stress about all of this… mu advise would be, stop taking everythig except test for atleast 4weeks. then test prolactin, E2, adrenals. if thats all good, check thyroid. there are many things that can effect your sex drive.

Maca is a good sex drive booster, along Vit D.
time heals all wounds, so just give it time… you just need to stop messing with your bodies feedback loops and allow it to rebalance.

130

Hi guys, I am new here, I am writing from Italy. After reading this topic for a while I decided to reply.
Same story here…everything started 5 years ago. I’ve used deca only (my mistake) at mild dosages for 4 weeks, then the 6th week I had severe HPTA shutdown (T level was under 100). No libido, no erection, felt always sleepy and so on. After a blood test and a visit by a endo, a month passed, and then under his guide I did a proper PCT with clomid for 2/3 weeks (don’t remember exactly).
It took a while but then after another 1 month for my body to balance everything, HPTA was completely fine, all levels of estrogens, prolactin, testosterone (800 since then, tested again a week ago and is still that high) and so on were and are fine.
That was 5 years ago.

This got slightly better with the time, problem is that since then I am still experiencing severe libido loss, and ED. I also have mood problems too (it’s kind of weird, my mind is fine but as the day ends I feel bad inside, kind of anxiety that goes away as soon as I get sleep) concentration / memory problems, and no matter how long I sleep I always feel really tired. I also feel something strange with my heart…I now it’s weird but it’s something between pressure problem (which is fine) and the feeling you get as soon as you have an adrenaline spike (but I feel this constantly).

I literally lost years trying to convince meds that I had a real problem and that it wasn’t in my mind…it’s something real, I can feel something is not ok.
So after reading all your posts I then discovered these problems could be related to adrenals, and so 2 days ago I did another blood test also to test them (serum levels 7.30am):
acth - aldosterone - cortisol - dhea dhea-s - dopamine - norepinephrine - progesterone - gh
I hope that these results will tell something more about adrenals status.
I will let you know as soon as I get the results 2/3 days.
I know this sounds absurd but I had to do these exams in a private clinic, asking them by myself reading your posts to know what exams I had to do, since all the meds I went to told me I was ok and it was all in my head, not even considering the adrenals disregulation possibility.

@physioLojik I’d really like to hear your opinion about and any suggestions if you have are really appreciated!
@ztanzanite I think you know really well this situation…if you can PM me, I would like to know more about your “journey” through all this, through the years, what you took for the adrenals, how you felt after taking hydrocortisone, if things got better and so on.
Of course as soon as I get the results I will go the the endo again, as I always do since then; I’ve found out that messing around alone with hormones is a dangerous game I don’t want to play anymore!

I know it is a very long road, but I believe that there is still a lot more to do that can improve my situation, I don’t wan’t to give up so easily!

Thanks guys for your support and for your precious help, hope to hear from you soon

Test / EQ Cycle Feedback
131

:disappointed::pick::pick::pick:

132

I Welcome Mario90…
Sorry about your troubles.
Yes, this is a complicated problem
Caused from the use of nandrolone. Do not be fooled by being told it wasn’t from the deca… it was. Not everyone has this problem, as they had a different “set up” than you did while starting your use.

The problem is the adrenals, the root of the adrenal problem is in the brain, not the adrenals. You can google "inhibited paraventricular nucleus ". This will give you an idea of how to start healing. Deca does not do this to all people, just the ones that were succeptable to PVN suppression. They are succeptable for many reasons.

By treating your self for adrenal dysregulation, you can help heal the lesion. I’m am 5 years out and feel well again but libido is still somewhat lowered from before. I have been actively treating this issue since day 1. You can trust Crisler and Mariano… they both have learned about this issue.

In the meantime, after getting bloods to prove the Adrenal insufficiency, you can, with a physicians help, use low dose HC and low dose test to restore the libido which will correct the erections. Stay low with the TEST and attempt to not use an AI… an AI in your state will give you severe fatigue…keep your test levels around 800 and watch E2 that it stays in the upper part of the reference range. It is E2 that drives your libido upward, testosterone is what raises your E2.

With low adrenal output, you have low progesterone output… this low progesterone is what causes E2 to be out of “balance”… out of balance with progesterone NOT testosterone. You are essentially estrogen dominant even though your E2 is in range.

I have worked with 3 of the best doctors we can get to help with steroid abusers, they know what they are doing, and this information I give is accurate. There are other knowledgeable members on here that will confirm this for you…

All the best Mario…
Very kind regards…

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133

Many many thanks ztananite…
First question…can you give me the emails of these doctors? I live in Italy and I believe thai is the only way to contact them to see if they can help me.
Second one…my endogenous T levels are above 800 right now, do you think I Need to use TEST too Or just HC might be ok? For sure I will do it under the guide of a med, after getting bloods.
Many many thanks again, will keep you updated!
Kind regards

134

Mario,
Be sure when you are testing your testosterone levels you are using the LCMS method…other methods can pickup other androgens and give you a falsely elevated result.
You can google those doctors and connect with them in their websites…
Best

135

Hey guys, OP here. I’m surprised to see that this thread is still running but I’m glad other people can get help with this issue.

As for me, I was put on TRT until July 2015 when I stopped taking hormones completely. I did 2 separate PCTs with HCG and Clomid and my test level got as high as 400 ng/dl

But since then I still had problems with ED and libido. Cialis helps a lot but there is still room for improvement. I refuse to give up.

Recent labs (drawn right before Christmas 2017) showed my test is 360 ng/dl (way too low for a mid 20’s male IMO) and FSH and LH are below normal range. I also suspect I am having some of the low cortisol problems described in this thread. Again, I have been off any kind of hormone - Isn’t it somewhat atypical that my testosterone level has still not recovered?! What should I do from here? Thank you

136

Id get a full print out of your bloodwork and post it in the TRT forum here on T Nation.

Secondly, find another doctor for a second opinion on your bloods, preferably someone who is young and open minded.

Why get off the TRT? Did it not help with libido?

What were your levels before starting gear?

137

Thank you for quick reply. Yes you are correct, TRT did nothing for my libido or erection quality. In fact, I felt tired all the time on it, and had brain fog/extreme difficulty with focus and concentration, leading me to believe there’s more than just a T problem going on here. I never got bloods done before starting gear because I started at 19-20 (I forget…) when I was young and dumb, but I know that my libido and erections were great and very healthy back then.

Here are relevant labs and ranges:

Testosterone 369 Range 348-1197
SHBG 23 Range 13-89
Estradiol 13 Range 11-43
FSH 1 Range 1.3-19
LH 1 Range 1.2-8.6

138

Hello again RearDelts…!
While you were on TRT your tiredness and weakness come from estrogen being low in range and high in range and upopposesd with progesterone. Once you get your adrenal output tested, I would bet your progesterone will come back very low normal. Progesterone both enhances estrogens actions and inhibits its actions. It balances its actions at the cellular level.
The same happens to me on trt, it helps libido, but makes me tired and fatigued constantly. When I first start trt it’s great for about 4-6 days, then the fatigue starts…
When adrenal output is compromised, any hormonal and nueroendocrine imbalance can happen. Some less affected and some more affected. Some systems become decompensated and others don’t…
Some can get relief with very low dose HCG mono therapy. Approx. 50iu daily can push the adrenals and bypass the PVN, leading to higher output. It helped me greatly, but is a nuisance to always have hcg to deal with when traveling or on the go…
If your adrenal output is compromised, most other reference ranges don’t mean much any longer, as the adrenals compensate for endocrine issues we all have. Once the ability to buffer those problems is knocked out, the problems reveal themselves…
Additionally, when you use exogenous testosterone, it lowers adrenal output, leading to further suppression of the adrenals. Once low enough output has happened, you body with raise catacholamines which will crush your libido and erections immediately. It’s a balancing act that balances other balancing acts…!
Dr. Mariano has some excellent write ups one these issues…

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139

try steroid they said, it will be fun they said…

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140

Hi,
I’ve got the results here (serum levels 7.30am):

cortisol 193 (range 37-195)
progesterone 0.5 (range up to 2.7)
dhea-s 213 (range 80-560)
dhea 13 (range 3-11)
aldosterone 70 (range 40-430)
acth 22 (range up to 46)
gh 0.07 (range less then 3)
norepinephrine 475 (range 70-480)
dopamine 13 (range up to 50)

Let me know what you think, many thanks,
Mario

141

Hello Mario,
It does appear that your adrenal function is compromised. Notice your adrenal output is low. However, your cortisol and DHEAS are elevated. This is a common outcome of a compromised adrenal response and a well functioning system to “try” and compensate for the issue. Research pregnenolone steal.

Most importantly, look at your severely elevated Norepinephrine… this is a big factor in regards to your libido and erections…making them extremely difficult to happen.

Think of your adrenals as a way that your body delivers fuel to its cells. When the delivery system is failing, your cells still need fuel for energy. Your brain senses the problems and raises your catacholamine output ( noradrenaline/ adrenaline). Theses catacholomines are immediate energy… your cells run well on them, but they are not healthy for chronic amounts of time… your libido and erections hate when they are elevated…your body needs to calm down and become repaired… however, it’s impossible to sleep “properly” while they are elevated …
My advise is to get to a good neuropath doctor with these results and let him guide you…

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142

You’re right on with this. In my practice seeing that high of a cortisol level running with super high NOR reveals adrenal fatigue. You aren’t going to ever allow your parasympathetic nervous system to run correctly. Try simple changes first - calming nighttime tea in the evening, magnesium 400 mg a night, GABA and 5htp as well to begin.

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I am sorry but this a bunch of baloney. This set of labs don’t indicate any compromised adrenal function. It just doesn’t. The cortisol is not elevated and a spot value for cortisol is fairly useless unless it is completely out of whack. The norepinephrine is not severely elevated. It’s in normal range and similarly to cortisol, a single value is useless.
Saying that catecholamines are “energy” and the cells “run on them” shows a level of understanding of physiology bordering on quackery.

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