[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I have to say that I tend to agree with my good friend Cortes.
What they’ve done is nice enough, but it tends to focus on the loss and the victimization.
Something a little more defiant would have been better.[/quote]
Not sure about America as a whole, but in Australia and NZ, it’s more of a “lest we forget” mentality.[/quote]
Forget what? [/quote]
You know…the Alamo…or something.
Right after it happened and people were still angry about it, the overwhelimg majority of people I know seemed to want to do what many have suggested, build the towers back bigger. After time had passed and ideas had been proposed I think most people (by this I mean New Yorkers I know, I’m from NY) seemed to prefer the idea of a memorial. Everyone I know who lost someone in the attack has been there, and had nothing but good things to say about what they did. So if the people who lost family members think it’s an appropriate monument, I think that’s the most important thing.
[quote]DirtyM wrote:
Not to get all squishy…
But in my opinion, rebuilding the same towers (or bigger) would only highlight our nation’s typical short attention span and general apathy towards its own history. It, (the memorial), isnt about defiance and ‘showing them’. People died there- it is sacred ground. The person who orchestrated the attack is rotting forever with whale shit. Majority of the dudes who planned/prepared that attack are also dead as fuck - so they want/so they get.
The attack happened. Our nation changed forever because of that day- not just the iconic cityscape of NYC. Yeah, it’s a scar; something traumatic happened. And a scar is a reminder you survived. If it stirs emotion- all the better.
I’m reminded of the Vietnam War Memorial in D.C. Quite a few VN veterans despised the monument when they first saw pictures or drafts of the design. Not too many felt the same way after visiting it- Hell, I’ve been twice and it’s difficult not to be moved by it.
Just my two cents. [/quote]
These are my sentiments exactly, very well put sir. Honestly, who could bring themselves to work in these hypothetical rebuilt towers? The thought of it is almost sacrilegious to me.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Allow me to fix this post for you:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I’m not a terrorist, myself, but [/quote]
my conservative positions on some issues are being compared to such in certian circles, and it is catching on in the press and everyday language. Today’s extremist is tomorrows…
[/quote]
I literally had that exact same cautious thought as I typed those words. I actually refrained from writing “terrorist sympathizer,” because I didn’t want orion or someone of his ilk to come in here and start explaining how I actually WAS and have this post get kicked off the rails into PWI oblivion.
[quote]relentless2120 wrote:
Right after it happened and people were still angry about it, the overwhelimg majority of people I know seemed to want to do what many have suggested, build the towers back bigger. After time had passed and ideas had been proposed I think most people (by this I mean New Yorkers I know, I’m from NY) seemed to prefer the idea of a memorial. Everyone I know who lost someone in the attack has been there, and had nothing but good things to say about what they did. So if the people who lost family members think it’s an appropriate monument, I think that’s the most important thing.[/quote]
Again, this is fair, and I certainly cannot take too much umbrage with the opinion of a New Yorker, himself. Can I ask, though, why you think this is? Genuinely curious.
Rebuilding the towers to the exact spec as the original would be ridiculous, however building 2 completely unique and insanely tall buildings is what should have been done.
I have to be honest, all of this “it’s the new yorkers opinion that matters” is bullshit. It was an attack on AMERICA, by assholes who hate us as a nation/people/culture. Just cause i dint know anyone who died in the attacks does not mean my opinion on the matter is any less important. Those asshole would have flew a plane right into my living room if they could have.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Rebuilding the towers to the exact spec as the original would be ridiculous, however building 2 completely unique and insanely tall buildings is what should have been done.
I have to be honest, all of this “it’s the new yorkers opinion that matters” is bullshit. It was an attack on AMERICA, by assholes who hate us as a nation/people/culture. Just cause i dint know anyone who died in the attacks does not mean my opinion on the matter is any less important. Those asshole would have flew a plane right into my living room if they could have. [/quote]
Just to clarify, I was not implying that New Yorkers’ opinions somehow hold some special weight, but that I will respect the opinion of someone who actually lost friends or family in the attacks in a different manner than someone like myself, who was not directly affected but is still righteously angry about the situation.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Rebuilding the towers to the exact spec as the original would be ridiculous, however building 2 completely unique and insanely tall buildings is what should have been done.
I have to be honest, all of this “it’s the new yorkers opinion that matters” is bullshit. It was an attack on AMERICA, by assholes who hate us as a nation/people/culture. Just cause i dint know anyone who died in the attacks does not mean my opinion on the matter is any less important. Those asshole would have flew a plane right into my living room if they could have. [/quote]
I totally agree with you, if I was not clear, and I fear I’m not, this morning.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Rebuilding the towers to the exact spec as the original would be ridiculous, however building 2 completely unique and insanely tall buildings is what should have been done.
I have to be honest, all of this “it’s the new yorkers opinion that matters” is bullshit. It was an attack on AMERICA, by assholes who hate us as a nation/people/culture. Just cause i dint know anyone who died in the attacks does not mean my opinion on the matter is any less important. Those asshole would have flew a plane right into my living room if they could have. [/quote]
I totally agree with you, if I was not clear, and I fear I’m not, this morning.
[/quote]
No worries. I just think people should remember this was an attack on America, much like Pearl Harbor was.
I always liked the austere, mimimalist design of the two towers, but we forget that for the longest time most everyone considered them ugly and that they didn’t fit in with the rest of the Manhattan skyline…so there’s a little bit of romantacism involved if you think the new towers should look the same.
Also, If I remember correctly the architect who designed the original towers was Japanese and in his hometown they have a smaller version of the two towers in a park somewhere.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Aggv wrote:
Rebuilding the towers to the exact spec as the original would be ridiculous, however building 2 completely unique and insanely tall buildings is what should have been done.
I have to be honest, all of this “it’s the new yorkers opinion that matters” is bullshit. It was an attack on AMERICA, by assholes who hate us as a nation/people/culture. Just cause i dint know anyone who died in the attacks does not mean my opinion on the matter is any less important. Those asshole would have flew a plane right into my living room if they could have. [/quote]
I totally agree with you, if I was not clear, and I fear I’m not, this morning.
[/quote]
No worries. I just think people should remember this was an attack on America, much like Pearl Harbor was.[/quote]
I was not implying that NYers opinions matter more either, but I do think people who directly lost loved ones opinions might hold a little more weight.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]relentless2120 wrote:
Right after it happened and people were still angry about it, the overwhelimg majority of people I know seemed to want to do what many have suggested, build the towers back bigger. After time had passed and ideas had been proposed I think most people (by this I mean New Yorkers I know, I’m from NY) seemed to prefer the idea of a memorial. Everyone I know who lost someone in the attack has been there, and had nothing but good things to say about what they did. So if the people who lost family members think it’s an appropriate monument, I think that’s the most important thing.[/quote]
Again, this is fair, and I certainly cannot take too much umbrage with the opinion of a New Yorker, himself. Can I ask, though, why you think this is? Genuinely curious. [/quote]
To be honest I’m really not sure what led to the general switch in people’s mindset. I myself actually wanted the towers built back taller, but I’m happy with how the memorial turned out. Looking at it on paper really doesn’t do it justice.
[quote]Nards wrote:
I always liked the austere, mimimalist design of the two towers, but we forget that for the longest time most everyone considered them ugly and that they didn’t fit in with the rest of the Manhattan skyline…so there’s a little bit of romantacism involved if you think the new towers should look the same.
Also, If I remember correctly the architect who designed the original towers was Japanese and in his hometown they have a smaller version of the two towers in a park somewhere.[/quote]
while i agree they were not aesthetically appealing, they were awesomely massive and impressive. It could be said that not everyone finds ronnie coleman attractive in his peak comp. form, but nobody can say it wasnt impressive.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]Nards wrote:
I always liked the austere, mimimalist design of the two towers, but we forget that for the longest time most everyone considered them ugly and that they didn’t fit in with the rest of the Manhattan skyline…so there’s a little bit of romantacism involved if you think the new towers should look the same.
Also, If I remember correctly the architect who designed the original towers was Japanese and in his hometown they have a smaller version of the two towers in a park somewhere.[/quote]
while i agree they were not aesthetically appealing, they were awesomely massive and impressive. It could be said that not everyone finds ronnie coleman attractive in his peak comp. form, but nobody can say it wasnt impressive. [/quote]
I liked them too, and it’s hard to explain without sounding insensitive, but making it sound like people thought those two towers were seen as some sort of icon of Americana and a beautiful representation blah blah blah before 9/11 would be wrong.
Whoever mentioned not wanting to work in the two new hypothetical towers, I agree. Even if you built two new towers, they’d still be sitting on a gravesite - there’s just that aura of a gravesite that doesn’t sit right. Would you feel comfortable making a joke about death/terrorism/whatever/etc in a building you worked in, knowing thousands of people died EXACTLY where you’re standing while you make said joke?
It reminds me of when I was lucky enough to visit the Pearl Harbor memorial… These two assclowns had been messing around, being loud, and just generally acting like assclowns, when a visibily pissed member of our military, in a stern voice, reminded them that we happened to be standing on hallowed ground and that they should act like it.
Cortes, I think your opinion might change a bit if you were to visit. Not that I’m trying to change your mind, but I think experiencing it is far more powerful than you realize. That could have just been my experience, though.
Personally, I have no problem with the memorial, but then again, I’d have no problem if they had decided to rebuild towers.
[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Cortes, I think your opinion might change a bit if you were to visit. Not that I’m trying to change your mind, but I think experiencing it is far more powerful than you realize. That could have just been my experience, though.
[/quote]
You may well be right. I will certainly go if I have the opportunity, and if I do feel differently I will not hesitate to bump this thread and say so.
I do think that you underestimate the resiliency of humans when it comes to these matters. I would be willing to bet that if you built up two more towers in the exact spot where the first two had been, that real estate would be snapped up quicker than you can say “Allahu Akbar” and the building would be filled and bustling and, if built bigger, even more populated than before.
Hell, people over here still live WAY closer to Fukushima than I think I would. And look at Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Those cities were GONE, like, the whole damned cities, and today you would never even be able to imagine that such a horrific even had taken place there if they hadn’t intentionally preserved certain landmarks to remind future generations of what had happened.
I will give you the reluctance to make terrorist jokes, though. For a few years, anyway.