9/11 Loose Change Video

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
41

[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
I am very calm, sorry sometimes caps tend to give off the wrong impression I only used caps to emphasize my point not to make it seem as though I was raising my voice.
Any who:
You never said that Bush was responsible however that is what the videos are saying. The videos make it seem as though Bush knew and was part of the conspiracy to take down the towers. These videos were made to bash Bush and the entire political party, thats why I stated what I did not because of something you said, but because you are thinking these videos may be true and that is what the videos imply.[/quote]

(Sigh)…read my first post again, man. I specifically said most of the video is questionable. I also specifically said I was agreeing with you (notice your name in gray) when I said I don’t think the government was responsible for the attacks. The only thing I said I was curious about in that post was WTC 7.

I seriously can’t believe you’ve read any of my posts if you’re bringing these points up. They have absolutely nothing to do with what I said. I think you’re just jumping to conclusions before you’ve even read anything.

42

[quote]Phoenix1911 wrote:
To all the conspiracy theorists out there let me ask you this:

If this is true…if our government was responsible for this then why do videos like loose change exist? If this is true our government managed to silence 4000 members of the FBI & CIA…they had no issues flying planes into buildings and killing thousands of people, crippling NY and messing up our economy as well as doing countless other things…then why are the people that created loose change still alive? Why is the movie on the internet still? Why are the members of this “truth” movement still walking the streets? If this was a conspiracy there would be alot more dead people…and we wouldnt have access to all this propoganda. The NSA would have taken those videos off the internet within an hour of them being posted…and those kids would no longer be here…get real[/quote]

Nice Maddox lift :-)…j/k

These are very good points all around. To cover up a “conspiracy” of this magnitude would take a ridiculous amount of bribery, assassination, and, quite frankly, an enormous amount of power and resources which our gov’t. probably doesn’t have. I know we’re powerful, but we’re not that powerful…

43

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
I dont think the government carried this out.

The only question I would like answered is Why is there not sone single photo of the plane hitting the Pentagon (those still security camera shots on September 12th dont count. You cant see shit). Here it is 5 years after and still not one single photo of a plane hitting the Pentagon. D.C. is the nucleus of our government, yet not one camera picked up a plane hitting the Pentagon?[/quote]

I have questions about this, as well, but I kind of forgot about them in the midst of the WTC 7 issue (which has already been proven to have a lot holes since I brought it up).

I have a friend who was actually in D.C. right after the attacks for the clean-up (U.S. Army). He said there was hardly anything there. Granted, this is only one person’s word, so it doesn’t mean much. I still thought it was interesting, however.

Before anyone makes some ridiculous statement about me being anti-Bush, anti-U.S., a dirty, liberal hippie, etc. etc., let me just say one more time: I don’t think our gov’t. was responsible for the attacks on 9/11. I do, however, think there are some very mysterious circumstances surrounding WTC 7 and the Pentagon. Does that mean I’m implicating the U.S. gov’t.? No. I just think it’s strange, that’s all…

44

[quote]CC wrote:
Before anyone makes some ridiculous statement about me being anti-Bush, anti-U.S., a dirty, liberal hippie, etc. etc., let me just say one more time: I don’t think our gov’t. was responsible for the attacks on 9/11. I do, however, think there are some very mysterious circumstances surrounding WTC 7 and the Pentagon. Does that mean I’m implicating the U.S. gov’t.? No. I just think it’s strange, that’s all…
[/quote]

I don’t understand people who seem to think this just couldn’t happen. We live in a country that gave random black men in the south Syphilis just to see what it would do to them without their knowledge. This was less than 30 years ago, but people are this trusting that everything we are told is pure truth? Why? That doesn’t mean we should fall for everything. It does mean we shouldn’t accept everything as truth.

45

[quote]CC wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
To all the conspiracy theorists out there let me ask you this:

If this is true…if our government was responsible for this then why do videos like loose change exist? If this is true our government managed to silence 4000 members of the FBI & CIA…they had no issues flying planes into buildings and killing thousands of people, crippling NY and messing up our economy as well as doing countless other things…then why are the people that created loose change still alive? Why is the movie on the internet still? Why are the members of this “truth” movement still walking the streets? If this was a conspiracy there would be alot more dead people…and we wouldnt have access to all this propoganda. The NSA would have taken those videos off the internet within an hour of them being posted…and those kids would no longer be here…get real

Nice Maddox lift :-)…j/k

These are very good points all around. To cover up a “conspiracy” of this magnitude would take a ridiculous amount of bribery, assassination, and, quite frankly, an enormous amount of power and resources which our gov’t. probably doesn’t have. I know we’re powerful, but we’re not that powerful…
[/quote]

Plus, the internet puts the spread of info at a pace never before seen. You can basically inform people across the world of an event in less than 30 seconds today.

46

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
…I think it could have been a stray missle that missed its target (the hojacked plane) and hit the Pentagon.

[/quote]

What hijacked plane do you think they were shooting at and missed? Where did that plane end up?

47

[quote]Professor X wrote:

I don’t understand people who seem to think this just couldn’t happen. We live in a country that gave random black men in the south Syphilis just to see what it would do to them without their knowledge. This was less than 30 years ago, but people are this trusting that everything we are told is pure truth? Why? That doesn’t mean we should fall for everything. It does mean we shouldn’t accept everything as truth.[/quote]

I’m not arguing that this wasn’t a horrible thing, but I am going to nit-pick a couple of things you keep incorrectly stating about it. Getting your facts straight is important when pointing out these kinds of atrocities.

The Tuskeegee experiments started in 1932 and ran until it was revealed by a whistleblower in 1972 (more than thirty years ago). The participants were just random black men. They volunteered for the study in exchange for free health care, free meals, and burial insurance. They were not told of the true nature of the study and surely wouldn’t have participated if they had known the truth.

You should also note that the name of the experiment comes from Booker T. Washington’s Tuskeegee Institute, since it’s hospital was used, and other black institutions and black doctors and nurses participated in the study.

It was a horrible thing, no doubt. It’s important to understand it for exactly what it was.

48

[quote]Professor X wrote:
CC wrote:
Before anyone makes some ridiculous statement about me being anti-Bush, anti-U.S., a dirty, liberal hippie, etc. etc., let me just say one more time: I don’t think our gov’t. was responsible for the attacks on 9/11. I do, however, think there are some very mysterious circumstances surrounding WTC 7 and the Pentagon. Does that mean I’m implicating the U.S. gov’t.? No. I just think it’s strange, that’s all…

I don’t understand people who seem to think this just couldn’t happen. We live in a country that gave random black men in the south Syphilis just to see what it would do to them without their knowledge. This was less than 30 years ago, but people are this trusting that everything we are told is pure truth? Why? That doesn’t mean we should fall for everything. It does mean we shouldn’t accept everything as truth.[/quote]

I’m not sure if you’re arguing with me or agreeing with me, lol, but I seem to gather that we’re on the same page here: don’t go believing every wacko conspiracy theory you hear, but don’t take everything at face value, either.

49

[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:

I don’t understand people who seem to think this just couldn’t happen. We live in a country that gave random black men in the south Syphilis just to see what it would do to them without their knowledge. This was less than 30 years ago, but people are this trusting that everything we are told is pure truth? Why? That doesn’t mean we should fall for everything. It does mean we shouldn’t accept everything as truth.

I’m not arguing that this wasn’t a horrible thing, but I am going to nit-pick a couple of things you keep incorrectly stating about it. Getting your facts straight is important when pointing out these kinds of atrocities.

The Tuskeegee experiments started in 1932 and ran until it was revealed by a whistleblower in 1972 (more than thirty years ago). The participants were just random black men. They volunteered for the study in exchange for free health care, free meals, and burial insurance. They were not told of the true nature of the study and surely wouldn’t have participated if they had known the truth.

You should also note that the name of the experiment comes from the Booker T. Washington’s Tuskeegee Institute, since it’s hospital was use, and other black institutions and black doctors and nurses participated in the study.

It was a horrible thing, no doubt. It’s important to understand it for exactly what it was.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html[/quote]

From what I’ve read, that study actually ended in 1976. I’ll recheck to be sure. The rest I have posted on this board before, included the one president who actually apologized for it.

Either way, thanks for posting it again for those who didn’t know and think our government is so saintly.

50

My problem with all of the conspiracy theories is that (1) I just can’t come up with a plausible motive and (2) it all seems so sloppy and random for a conspiracy.

That being said, I have to agree that the ONE thing that I think is suspicious about the whole thing is the Pentagon tapes. Apprently there were three independent tapes of the crash: the one from the Virginia Dept. of Transportation on the highway next to the Pentagon, the one on the Sheraton, and the one at a gas station near the Pentagon.

I can’t understand why the Pentagon would want to confiscate and not show those tapes, unless it is because the video is too graphic and disturbing.

Here is the deal though. The gov’t got pretty lucky that there wasn’t some putz on the side of the road with a camcorder videotaping that day. Because if there happened to be such an individual (as there were at the WTC) then the whole fraud would be revealed as it would be hard to stop that footage from being disseminated. That makes me think that the story is legit, becuase I can’t believe that they would predicate the whole explanation on the chance that no independent person caught it on film.

The WTC 7 thing doesn’t bother me a bit. The fact that all three buildings fell down like a “controlled demo.” is not concerning. How many people can say that they know what a building looks like when it falls from internal structual failure? How else was the building supposed to fall? If there are no forces acting laterally on it to push it over and the structure is being weakened internally (as it would with demolition) then it is going to fall inward on itself like a demolition.

As I said earlier, we had no frame of reference for the things we witnessed on 9/11 and therefore are suspicious about what we saw. We can’t compare it to something that has happened before so we question it.

51

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
burzerk wrote:
I am a nyc fireman… was there on the 11th… My mind is blown away by this video… I don’t know what to write.

Makes ya think… and it saddens me… what if this is true.

C-Span: 9/11 American Scholars Symposium
To re-air Tuesday Aug 1 at 6:10PM EST, 5:10 CST.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2006/310706cspan.htm

Might want to check it out.
[/quote]

I watched this and it was pretty interesting. The prof, Jones, from BYU was good; but the obvious outright hatred for Bush and Co. from the rest of the panel spoiled any semblance of objectivity. I don’t like others telling me my emotions in advance but rather like an objective presentation of facts, wherein I then judge and evaluate.

HH

52

[quote]eic wrote:
That being said, I have to agree that the ONE thing that I think is suspicious about the whole thing is the Pentagon tapes. [/quote]

Hey you people doubting the official story!

53

9/11 panel distrusted Pentagon testimony
Commissioners considered criminal probe of false statements

Wednesday, August 2, 2006

WASHINGTON (CNN) – A member of the 9/11 commission said Wednesday that panel members so distrusted testimony from Pentagon officials that they referred their concerns to the Pentagon’s inspector general.

The panel even considered taking the matter to the Justice Department for a possible criminal probe, commission member Tim Roemer said.

“We were extremely frustrated with the false statements we were getting,” Roemer told CNN. “We were not sure of the intent, whether it was to deceive the commission or merely part of the fumbling bureaucracy.”

The issues concerned Pentagon officials’ testimony about the timeline of events on September 11, 2001, when terrorists hijacked four U.S. airliners and crashed them into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Pennsylvania.

The DOD inspector general’s probe found mistakes and has since corrected the record but found “nothing in the course of their review that indicates testimony by DOD was knowingly false,” a Pentagon spokesman said.

The Washington Post and Vanity Fair both published stories about the commission’s debate, and ABC News on Tuesday aired excerpts of military audiotapes.

“For more than two years after the attacks, officials with NORAD [the North American Aerospace Defense Command] and the FAA provided inaccurate information about the response to the hijackings in testimony and media appearances,” The Washington Post reported Wednesday.

"Authorities suggested that U.S. air defenses had reacted quickly, that jets had been scrambled in response to the last two hijackings and that fighters were prepared to shoot down United Airlines Flight 93 if it threatened Washington.

“In fact, the commission reported a year later, audiotapes from NORAD’s Northeast headquarters and other evidence showed clearly that the military never had any of the hijacked airliners in its sights and at one point chased a phantom aircraft – American Airlines Flight 11 – long after it had crashed into the World Trade Center,” according to The Washington Post.

54

[quote]Professor X wrote:
CC wrote:
Phoenix1911 wrote:
To all the conspiracy theorists out there let me ask you this:

If this is true…if our government was responsible for this then why do videos like loose change exist? If this is true our government managed to silence 4000 members of the FBI & CIA…they had no issues flying planes into buildings and killing thousands of people, crippling NY and messing up our economy as well as doing countless other things…then why are the people that created loose change still alive? Why is the movie on the internet still? Why are the members of this “truth” movement still walking the streets? If this was a conspiracy there would be alot more dead people…and we wouldnt have access to all this propoganda. The NSA would have taken those videos off the internet within an hour of them being posted…and those kids would no longer be here…get real

Nice Maddox lift :-)…j/k

These are very good points all around. To cover up a “conspiracy” of this magnitude would take a ridiculous amount of bribery, assassination, and, quite frankly, an enormous amount of power and resources which our gov’t. probably doesn’t have. I know we’re powerful, but we’re not that powerful…

Plus, the internet puts the spread of info at a pace never before seen. You can basically inform people across the world of an event in less than 30 seconds today.[/quote]

I think he was agreeing with me X…I could be mistaken though…as for things spreading quickly…what you said was partially true…loose change didnt pick up momentum for over a month though…and dont forget the government created the internet origionally as a tool for the military so they know how to use it…not to mention the NSA has computers and all sorts of fun toys to ensure they can find things quickly and handle situations with the utmost speed. And I dont support Bush…I despise him (hes the reason I dont work for the gov anymore), I think hes turning this country upside down but I dont beleive him capable of this.

Someone brought up that the WTC 7 had CIA and FBI documents…you guys might have posted the links that factualize this…if one of you reads this could you post them again…it doesnt make much sense to me considering the largest non-HQ buildings of both of those agencies resides in NYC (why wouldnt these documents be at thier respective field offices?)

In all seriousness the theorists bring up some good points but the reality is thats not hard to do. These people have had yrs to cook up ideas and intricate plots to explain somthing that everyone wanted answers for. They have had yrs to get “experts” to state “facts” that arent actually fact. Its all good saying such and such an event would happen an exact way in a controlled event but the fact of the matter is this was absolute chaos and there are millions of variables to take into consideration. We see the press compile information daily in a decieving way…its not hard. This was an event that was so huge, involved so many people, and happened so quickly that our government was left on its ass. There were so many miscommunications that it shouldnt be hard to see why the government hasnt always gotten its facts straight. People were demanding answers that noone could give because no solid answers existed. So many people ignored intel about the situaion prior to it hapenning and im sure when it did happen they were scared shitless to admit it…thats human nature. My cousin who was in the pentagon when it hit laughs everytime he reads something about pictures and or more conclusive video being produced…its one of the nations most secure facilities…they arent going to show people a damn thing. And again…if the theorists were right why didnt they just kick off the power of the non government cameras who caught it on tape(or find another way to take the cameras offline before the event happened) instead of making noise by confistcating everything? Why didnt they produce tons broken plane parts…that would and is obviously somthing that people would ask about…if this was a planned event then that would have been thought of.

All im saying is its easy for these conspiracy theorists and or anti-bush people to produce convincing information a yr or even 5yrs after the fact.

55

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
JustTheFacts wrote:

C-Span: 9/11 American Scholars Symposium
To re-air Tuesday Aug 1 at 6:10PM EST, 5:10 CST.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2006/310706cspan.htm

Might want to check it out.

I watched this and it was pretty interesting. The prof, Jones, from BYU was good; but the obvious outright hatred for Bush and Co. from the rest of the panel spoiled any semblance of objectivity. I don’t like others telling me my emotions in advance but rather like an objective presentation of facts, wherein I then judge and evaluate.

HH[/quote]

I saw this as well, pretty funny shit, but I agree about the BYU Prof. and objectivity in general. Also, I was surprised to see the mind-warpingly retarded reasoning come out of some of the other panelists who, rather than actual scholars, were merely writers or radio hosts. I especially liked the explanation that it would take ~250# of explosives, but that you would have to use ~1000# because you can’t tell where the plane is going to hit.

-So two planes hit the WTC and we need the outright destruction of the towers to convince us it was terrorism? Oh, maybe it was to cover up the destruction of classified documents that a fire would’ve done anyway and been more believable. Two planes slam into the WTC, I can see someone forgetting to turn the coffee pot off.

-I’ve never actually seen 1000# of explosives, but I can’t imagine that 1000# of strategically placed explosives is inconspicuous.

-The shadow government, powerful enough to compel ‘Angel’ to start a war in the Middle East, can’t even do that on it’s own? They could learn a thing or two from Hezbollah.

-Send me a hundred dollars and vote for me and I’ll see that justice gets done.

Pretty unscholarly thinking on both the ‘scholars’’ and the shadow governments’ parts. Pretty much on par for the politician and radio host though.

56


There are several important reasons to doubt the official collapse theory:

*The collapses happened much faster than any non-demolition theory can predict. WTC1 and 2 collapsed in around 10 seconds. Free fall time, or the fastest they could fall is 9.2s. Can you imagine the pancaking of 100+ floors happening in .8 seconds?

*Traces of thermate (demolition grade thermite) found

*Melted steel (fires from jet fuel or common office supplies <1100C cannot melt steel >1500C - but a chemical reaction such as burning thermite can ~2200C )

Here is one calculation that shows the jet fuel could have only added 255Celcius to the fire: THE JET FUEL; HOW HOT DID IT HEAT THE WTC *LINK*

Here is another calculation that shows that the energy present due to gravity is about 10fold too little to account for the collapse:

http://911research.wtc7.net/papers/dustvolume/volumev3_1.html

So then you ask, what about the impact of the plane? To answer that here is a quote from NIST:

The WTC towers displayed significant reserve capacity, vibrating immediately
following impact with amplitudes that were about half the amplitudes for design wind
conditions expected by the building designers and an oscillation period nearly equal to
that measured for the undamaged building.

Translation: The buildings withstood the impact and acted as they were designed to in case of a hurricane.

Reference: World Trade Center Investigation | NIST

As a physicist, I’m trained to accept theories that can best explain experimental results. Right now the demolition theory explains things the best. Where does that take you? Who knows, there are plenty theories for that as well. But i do know that it wasn’t airplanes and it wasn’t gravity. Chances are, it was Bombs.

Finally if you’re still not convinced, if the airplane fires WERE hot enough to melt steel why is the woman still alive?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/wtc1hole1.html

57

[quote]physicsninja wrote:

Finally if you’re still not convinced, if the airplane fires WERE hot enough to melt steel why is the woman still alive?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/photos/wtc1hole1.html
[/quote]

It’s the Virgin Mary!

58

[quote]lucasa wrote:
physicsninja wrote:
It’s the Virgin Mary![/quote]

Wow you are a funny guy. That is someone’s daughter/sister/mother etc have some respect.

One thing that really bothered me were the shots of the lobby in tower 1. Video evidence of marble paneling blown off the walls etc.

It isn’t as if something like this, (state-sponsored terra), hasn’t happened in the past.

59

[quote]physicsninja wrote:
There are several important reasons to doubt the official collapse theory:

*The collapses happened much faster than any non-demolition theory can predict. WTC1 and 2 collapsed in around 10 seconds. Free fall time, or the fastest they could fall is 9.2s. Can you imagine the pancaking of 100+ floors happening in .8 seconds?

…[/quote]

This is a blatant lie and has been debunked many times.

Thanks for repeating though. It really adds to your credibility.

60

how long did it take then? cite your reference.

and do you care to address any of the other points? traces of thermate, woman still alive, oscillation frequency… etc