9/11 Inside Job

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

As emotionally wrecking as the September 11th attacks were for all of us, I, for one, am disturbed by the continued attempts to stifle investigation and discussion through emotional invective and partisan name calling. So I’m going to try my hand at it.

I think that this issue really comes down to whether or not, given all past examples (COINTELPRO, Northwoods, the Gulf of Tonken incident, etc.), you trust the government to not use its enormous power against you. Even if these allegations about the worst terrorist attack on US soil are true, does it mean that our government sought to do evil? No. I don’t believe so. But herein lies the danger of putting idealists in power: history has shown that they can and will rationalize any means to reach the ends that they believed to be qualitatively GOOD (Lenin, Clinton, Nixon, etc.).

Additionally, practical men and women will always be at a disadvantage to the idealists, regarding truth, in these situations. Would the experts quoted by Popular Mechanics want to keep their credibility and their livelihood? Or, similarly, would the cognitive dissonance of learning that the country we all love is being mistreated by those who we entrusted to protect us be something that you could handle?

42

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

Stranger than Fiction: An Independent Investigation of 9-11 and the War on Terrorism

I think this is worth reading- well I thought so back when I really cared about 9/11 events and spent hours arguing about what happened back then.

dont really care about arguing about this anymore. let ppl think whatever they want. i dont think its possible to prove any side of the story, so i dont hold any definite convictions on what happened.

plus altho it is absolutely undeniable that the US lied repeatedly about some things regarding 9/11 , it doesnt mean it was an inside job… they could have just used the situation for their own good by fabricating a few extra details (mostly i’m thinking about the passport of the supposed lead hijacker being found on the wreckage, surviving an airplane blast and a fire so large and powerful that it brought a building down)… as well as the qur’an and flight manual supposedly found in some car in the airport parking (learning how to fly a plane’s isn’t exactly something you can just cram on the way to the airport), oh and the supposed Qur’an that the hijackers left in a STRIP CLUB the day before they killed themselves hoping to go to heaven, if the israeli intelligence agencies are to be believed. so there are things that were definitly fabricated and lied about, but it doesnt mean it was an inside job. could simply have just been taking advantage of a bad situation…

still if i was ever going to make a definite judgment on the cause of 9/11, the Stranger Than Fiction investigation above was the best argument i had read.

43

Hahaha…after reading some of the posts from the conspiracy nut jobs I can hardly type this…I’m laughing so hard…

Leonard Spencer has got to be the biggest nut case I have seen in a long time.

It makes you wonder how some of these people actually get through life without hurting themselves…LOL

Please…conspiracy theorists post more nutty stuff this is fun.

Toward the end of the thread I think we should pick the craziest post and give them a free tub of GROW!

44

Why not just ask the relatives of the alleged people aboard the alleged planes that did or did not hit towers and the pentagon.

I’m sure they’d tell you straight up it was all just a hoax. That cell phone calls explaining what was going on were really just auditions for a new season of 24.

Then, of course, the pay offs to these people to assure the secrecy and confidentiality of the ruse. The whole notion of a cover up is ridiculous.
Anyone can come up with a good fiction story, someone please give me a little non-fiction to help this “story” along.

45

tri, jlesk, battlelust,

You guys hear about that E.T. that impregnated the cow in Missouri?

It didn’t turn out right: it ended up as a lusty shit.

The poor cow’s response? “MOOOOO!!!”

They might try it on you next!!!

Are you prepared?

Can I join the “seeing the REAL TRUTH behind all the lies” club?

I’ll bring the cheetos, ho-ho’s, and the Playboy.

JeffR

46

JeffR,
I’ve invited you to club meetings on several occasions. You’re always “busy.” One more time: we meet in a sewer underneath Dealey Plaza. The password is “Fluoride.” See you soon…if they don’t get to you first.

47

Did anybody notice the entire story is predicated on a gigantic “if” statement in the first sentence? Why does anybody even bother to respond to a thread about such obvious bull shit?

ooops!

48

Tube Steak Boogie

49

This was a long read, but chilling. If you didn’t read it, it has nothing to do with the Bush administration being behind any type of cover up…

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

Just reposted the link from above for the lazy, not a new link.

50

[quote]vroom wrote:
This was a long read, but chilling. If you didn’t read it, it has nothing to do with the Bush administration being behind any type of cover up…

http://www.apfn.org/apfn/WTC_STF.htm

Just reposted the link from above for the lazy, not a new link. [/quote]

I could not get through the whole disgusting anti-semetic thing.

I think the American Patriot Friends Network is a far right wing white supremacist type organization. Please correct me if I am wrong.

How many people actually buy into this shit? Do you want to buy a bridge?

51

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
bikejames wrote:
With all the cameras

Hell yeah there are a lot of cameras. I’d imagine there would be even more in Washington D.C. yet there is not one single frame of footage (the lone security camera at the Pentagon doesn’t count because there’s nothing recognizable in the 4 frames) of a plane nor one single photo. Doesn’t that seem odd?
[/quote]

This is incorrect, the camera actually shows the plane before the crash, it is just not as clear as we wish it was. Remember, the plane is moving at 460 knots and its a lousy security camera. One of the earlier links with the pics is bs, they are cropped.

52

[quote]JeffR wrote:
tri, jlesk, battlelust,

You guys hear about that E.T. that impregnated the cow in Missouri?

It didn’t turn out right: it ended up as a lusty shit.

The poor cow’s response? “MOOOOO!!!”

They might try it on you next!!!

Are you prepared?

Can I join the “seeing the REAL TRUTH behind all the lies” club?

I’ll bring the cheetos, ho-ho’s, and the Playboy.

JeffR

[/quote]

I haven’t been in this forum for yet a 3 posts and you’re already labeling me. Perhaps you missed the part where I said it was FUN to entertain it, but thats about it. Simply playing devils advocate.

Didn’t you learn last time when you assumed I voted for Kerry?

53

I cant express my disgust at anyone who would entertain an idea like this. To post this is bad enough, but to say that it could be true is a slap in the face to all of the people that died on that day. All the firefighters, police officers, other first responders, and the innocent workers and bystanders.

The hypocrisy of the left is killing me. I love this country and I believe in what it used to stand for. Some of us still stand for the TRUE foundation of this country. Others, like anyone who would post or entertain this stupid opinion, are living off of the blood of many lives lost so that they could ridicule their government and second guess everything. This brings to mind the recent statements of the imbecile, Dick Durbin.

I think that it is healthy to analyze issues and not take everything at face value, but to suggest that anyone in the government would do something like this is plain stupid.

You want to know what conspiracy theorists do to this country? Take a look at godhatesfag.com. These assholes are protesting the funeral of a man I served with. They are glad he died in Iraq. Why? Because they say that the government used an IED against them.

Give this shit a rest. I am sorry, i normally dont lower myself to name calling, but this has me so heated that if you actually entertain the idea of this article having a shred of truth, then you are a comleteley stupid asshole and should be ashamed. Why dont you go tell the wives and mothers and other loved ones of the heroes that died that day about your stupid fucking theory.

I hope you are enjoying your freedom of speech that you say your relatives fought to defend. Why dont you grab a gun and fight for it and see if you still believe in this propaganda BS.

54

Conversation for the sake of conversation. It is interesting what conspiracy theorists can come up with. The same goes with the walk on the moon. It’s just interesting, I never said it was true.

I had a close family member die in the WTC. I think I have a right to entertain it for the purpose of discourse and nothing more.

My father is a retired Vietnam vet and I plan to enter the military for my medical residency. I serve each week as a volunteer firefighter/emt.

I also currently have adopted a soldier in Iraq and have encourged many of my fellow students to do so.

And if someone told me I had to die tomorrow to save your freedom to accuse like that, I’d do it. So watch who you point fingers at.

55

What makes it anti-semitic, Zap? The fact that it criticizes the Israeli government? Well what about the “Jews for Justice in the Middle East” organization that produced this online pamphlet (http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html) on “The Origin of the Palestine-Israel Conflict” which is one of the strongest cases agaist the Zionist claims?
And what about the “Jews Against the Occupation” (http://www.jatonyc.org). Are they anti-semitic because they think that Israeli policy is wrong? They oppose Israel on moral grounds.

How about the Jewish groups who believe that Zionism is completely opposed to the teachings of the Torah, such as “True Torah Jews Against Zionism” (http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/), or Neturei Karta- Orthodox Jews United Against Zionism (http://www.nkusa.org/), and the (http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/) Jews Not Zionists (http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/), all of which are different than each other and have some differences between them, but oppose Zionism as being un-Jewish? These, as opposed to the examples above, oppose Israel on religious grounds.

And Victor Ostrovsky also comes to mind, the infamous Canadian who went to Israel to serve its government, but was so disgusted by the actions of the Mossad (Israeli secret service) that he quit and exposed their practices in two books?

Are all of these “self-hating” Jews?

Screw you Zap, and all who try to destroy any argument against Israeli goverment practices by labelling everyone as “anti-semitic”. This suppression of people’s views, and their false labeling is almost as bad as anti-semitism itself.

so maybe, Zap, just maybe, people will be able to have intelligent discussions if there weren’t loud-mouth idiots falsely labelling everyone around in order to suppress opposing viewpoints.

And I have a tip for you, Zap… you see, when one plans to read a certain argument, to find out if the premise is true, he is actually expected to read the arguments and then make a decision. If you simply decide not to read it because you are opposed to the idea being presented, then you will never know if there are any good arguments against your own beliefs… That’s not very smart now is it? It beats the whole purpose of trying to find out the truth.

56

ok ok, i think i got carried away with my emotions there… you see, it’s very unfair whenever someone is automatically likened to Hitler just because he has issues with the Israeli government. And when you keep seeing it everywhere, it makes you angry.

Zap: I’m sorry I called you a loud-mouthed idiot or something of that nature… I was just angry at all those ppl who have not allowed any negative discussion against israel whatsoever all these years.
I’ve actually always liked you because of your name and avatar… sorry.

may this be my last post in any political forum, anywhere, ever. amen.

57

Oh boy, conspiracy theories. Too bad I didn’t catch this earlier, before everyone went crazy.

I believe this was discussed on Coast to Coast AM on Thursday night. (Or is that Friday morning?) I caught some of the repeat stuff the next day. (They play an hour from the previous night before the live show starts.)

Interestingly the debunker from Popular Science was also on the show a short while back.

I enjoy listening to the show, but I don’t take much of it too seriously. Anyone who cannot get on regular television or radio can easily get on Coast to Coast. Their purpose is only to give a voice to those who are unable to get on regular talk shows.

Having theories is nice, but just because you or somebody else comes up with a theory does not mean it should be believed.

For example it has been questioned how could the plane hit the Pentagon and not things the same height hundreds of yards back. Interesting question until you remember it wasn’t driven in, it was flown in. I really doubt it came in straight, but probably was diving down faster then a normal landing so naturally it was over everything else.

And if this is not enough, what would the purpose be in blowing up the Pentagon when the Twin Towers were two big targets that would get plenty of attention? There was no need to add in the Pentagon.

If a person makes a claim of this magnitude, in effect charging the US government with attacking itself, then proof must be shown. Not some theory, but solid proof.

If you look at the theories, they are mostly one step, very simplistic, like steel melts at this temp. But how scientific is this? Pop Sci actually took scientists and looked at it, and pointed out that the fuel only burned for 10 minutes, but there was still a fire after 10 minutes.

This is kind of like saying only one gallon of gas could not burn down a whole house, but I assume everyone knows it can, even though the gas will be burned up in a minute. It takes a few mores steps then saying fuel does not burn hot enough to melt steel.

Too many people think too shallowly, and that is why they get caught up in this stuff. It is also why so many people are fooled into following foolish people and foolish ideas.

How many read the headlines, and not the story? This is why Ephadra has been banned, low fat is popular, or thinking Atkins is the only low carb diet, and Atkins means adding bacon to everything.

Just because it sounds good, or interesting, does not make it true.

58

[quote]holifila wrote:
PGA200X wrote:
bikejames wrote:
With all the cameras

Hell yeah there are a lot of cameras. I’d imagine there would be even more in Washington D.C. yet there is not one single frame of footage (the lone security camera at the Pentagon doesn’t count because there’s nothing recognizable in the 4 frames) of a plane nor one single photo. Doesn’t that seem odd?

This is incorrect, the camera actually shows the plane before the crash, it is just not as clear as we wish it was. Remember, the plane is moving at 460 knots and its a lousy security camera. One of the earlier links with the pics is bs, they are cropped.[/quote]

One blurry, non identifiable, photo in a town that has thousands of cameras and video cameras? O I forgot to mention the mismatch on the dates of those “September 12th” photos :wink:

59

Who told a number of public officials not to fly into New York on the morning of 9/11 and why didn’t the people on the targeted planes get the same warnings? Mayor of San Francisco Willie Brown was set to fly into New York on the morning of September 11. However, he got a call from what he described as his ‘airport security’ late September 10th advising against flying due to a security threat.

60

[quote]jlesk68 wrote:
Who told a number of public officials not to fly into New York on the morning of 9/11 and why didn’t the people on the targeted planes get the same warnings? Mayor of San Francisco Willie Brown was set to fly into New York on the morning of September 11. However, he got a call from what he described as his ‘airport security’ late September 10th advising against flying due to a security threat.[/quote]

Good, good…I want to see more posts like this. But…make them even nuttier. Come on now there must be enough unstable people on this forum to hold a real contest for :

NUTTIEST POST

Keep em coming boys!