I agree without a doubt that 5/3/1 is a good shout btw, if I could make love to that program I would.
RDS’ layout is a good one for you, allows you to focus on the areas you are wanting.
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
The guy wants to look like Brad PItt, wtf is wrong with that?[/quote]
Because it’s the kind of unrealistic wishful thinking that often leads to disappointment and people giving up on training. His picture didn’t load for me, but I’m guessing they don’t have the same body, and even if OP got jacked and cut, he still probably won’t look anything like Brad Pitt.
If an average looking girl with completely different anthropometry than a Victoria’s Secret Angel tells you she wants to look like Miranda Kerr, what do you say to that? You say, look, you can transform yourself into a fitter, better looking you, but you need to stop idolizing an unrealistic body type and aim to just be a better you. That’s my take on it, especially since the dude came here asking for advice as a newb, and it’s almost always beginners who want to look like someone else. It’s my opinion that that mindset is a bad way to get started. I don’t even think Brad Pitt is a great goal to shoot for, but I understand OP may have just meant he’d rather be lean and athletic than like the traditional bodybuilder, which is why I added the bit at the end.
Overall, I feel like we (people who train) nuthug on other guys way too much because we have serious body image problems, like borderline body dysmorphic disorder. I think it’s more becoming of a man to aspire to look like the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him) than to want to look like another man. Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea. Alright, rant over. Peace.[/quote]
So just because you don’t think Brad PItt’s physique is a great goal to go for the OP shouldn’t try and look the way he wants to?
Do you not think that “the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him)” is directly linked to the physiques he admires? Its the same for everyone to differing degrees.
I honestly dont think Brad Pitt’s style physique is not unattainable or unrealistic for the OP. He wont look exactly like him cause thats impossible but if he wants to get as close to it as possible that’s admirable.
[/quote]
With all due respect, I don’t believe you read my post very carefully. I said, " Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea."
It’s my opinion that it’s not admirable, as a grown man, to want to look like another grown man, and more importantly, I think it’s a bad mindset to start out with. I don’t believe it’s the same for everyone. But again, that’s my opinion, and OP is free to do as he pleases, obviously.
If he wants a slim, athletic looking build, that’s his prerogative, and I respect that. Agree to disagree on the rest of it, I suppose.
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
The guy wants to look like Brad PItt, wtf is wrong with that?[/quote]
Because it’s the kind of unrealistic wishful thinking that often leads to disappointment and people giving up on training. His picture didn’t load for me, but I’m guessing they don’t have the same body, and even if OP got jacked and cut, he still probably won’t look anything like Brad Pitt.
If an average looking girl with completely different anthropometry than a Victoria’s Secret Angel tells you she wants to look like Miranda Kerr, what do you say to that? You say, look, you can transform yourself into a fitter, better looking you, but you need to stop idolizing an unrealistic body type and aim to just be a better you. That’s my take on it, especially since the dude came here asking for advice as a newb, and it’s almost always beginners who want to look like someone else. It’s my opinion that that mindset is a bad way to get started. I don’t even think Brad Pitt is a great goal to shoot for, but I understand OP may have just meant he’d rather be lean and athletic than like the traditional bodybuilder, which is why I added the bit at the end.
Overall, I feel like we (people who train) nuthug on other guys way too much because we have serious body image problems, like borderline body dysmorphic disorder. I think it’s more becoming of a man to aspire to look like the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him) than to want to look like another man. Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea. Alright, rant over. Peace.[/quote]
Great post![/quote]
Thanks. Avoiding work, as usual.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
The guy wants to look like Brad PItt, wtf is wrong with that?[/quote]
Because it’s the kind of unrealistic wishful thinking that often leads to disappointment and people giving up on training. His picture didn’t load for me, but I’m guessing they don’t have the same body, and even if OP got jacked and cut, he still probably won’t look anything like Brad Pitt.
If an average looking girl with completely different anthropometry than a Victoria’s Secret Angel tells you she wants to look like Miranda Kerr, what do you say to that? You say, look, you can transform yourself into a fitter, better looking you, but you need to stop idolizing an unrealistic body type and aim to just be a better you. That’s my take on it, especially since the dude came here asking for advice as a newb, and it’s almost always beginners who want to look like someone else. It’s my opinion that that mindset is a bad way to get started. I don’t even think Brad Pitt is a great goal to shoot for, but I understand OP may have just meant he’d rather be lean and athletic than like the traditional bodybuilder, which is why I added the bit at the end.
Overall, I feel like we (people who train) nuthug on other guys way too much because we have serious body image problems, like borderline body dysmorphic disorder. I think it’s more becoming of a man to aspire to look like the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him) than to want to look like another man. Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea. Alright, rant over. Peace.[/quote]
So just because you don’t think Brad PItt’s physique is a great goal to go for the OP shouldn’t try and look the way he wants to?
Do you not think that “the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him)” is directly linked to the physiques he admires? Its the same for everyone to differing degrees.
I honestly dont think Brad Pitt’s style physique is not unattainable or unrealistic for the OP. He wont look exactly like him cause thats impossible but if he wants to get as close to it as possible that’s admirable.
[/quote]
With all due respect, I don’t believe you read my post very carefully. I said, " Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea."
It’s my opinion that it’s not admirable, as a grown man, to want to look like another grown man, and more importantly, I think it’s a bad mindset to start out with. I don’t believe it’s the same for everyone. But again, that’s my opinion, and OP is free to do as he pleases, obviously.
If he wants a slim, athletic looking build, that’s his prerogative, and I respect that. Agree to disagree on the rest of it, I suppose.
[/quote]
Naw naw I read the opinion bit but I just think that we are all influenced somewhat by physiques we admire, I mean you must look at some physiques and be like holy hell i’m gonna go and nail their strong bodypart today, like platz and his legs?
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
The guy wants to look like Brad PItt, wtf is wrong with that?[/quote]
Because it’s the kind of unrealistic wishful thinking that often leads to disappointment and people giving up on training. His picture didn’t load for me, but I’m guessing they don’t have the same body, and even if OP got jacked and cut, he still probably won’t look anything like Brad Pitt.
If an average looking girl with completely different anthropometry than a Victoria’s Secret Angel tells you she wants to look like Miranda Kerr, what do you say to that? You say, look, you can transform yourself into a fitter, better looking you, but you need to stop idolizing an unrealistic body type and aim to just be a better you. That’s my take on it, especially since the dude came here asking for advice as a newb, and it’s almost always beginners who want to look like someone else. It’s my opinion that that mindset is a bad way to get started. I don’t even think Brad Pitt is a great goal to shoot for, but I understand OP may have just meant he’d rather be lean and athletic than like the traditional bodybuilder, which is why I added the bit at the end.
Overall, I feel like we (people who train) nuthug on other guys way too much because we have serious body image problems, like borderline body dysmorphic disorder. I think it’s more becoming of a man to aspire to look like the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him) than to want to look like another man. Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea. Alright, rant over. Peace.[/quote]
So just because you don’t think Brad PItt’s physique is a great goal to go for the OP shouldn’t try and look the way he wants to?
Do you not think that “the best version of himself (whatever that may be to him)” is directly linked to the physiques he admires? Its the same for everyone to differing degrees.
I honestly dont think Brad Pitt’s style physique is not unattainable or unrealistic for the OP. He wont look exactly like him cause thats impossible but if he wants to get as close to it as possible that’s admirable.
[/quote]
With all due respect, I don’t believe you read my post very carefully. I said, " Just my opinion, and I respect OP’s right to want to look like whoever the fuck he wants, but I still think it’s a bad idea."
It’s my opinion that it’s not admirable, as a grown man, to want to look like another grown man, and more importantly, I think it’s a bad mindset to start out with. I don’t believe it’s the same for everyone. But again, that’s my opinion, and OP is free to do as he pleases, obviously.
If he wants a slim, athletic looking build, that’s his prerogative, and I respect that. Agree to disagree on the rest of it, I suppose.
[/quote]
Naw naw I read the opinion bit but I just think that we are all influenced somewhat by physiques we admire, I mean you must look at some physiques and be like holy hell i’m gonna go and nail their strong bodypart today, like platz and his legs?
[/quote]
Yes. Definitely. It would be arrogant not to appreciate or even admire what some people have done with their physiques or in terms of strength. It takes a tremendous amount of consistent work to get those results, and I would never take that away from anyone. Sometimes it’s even inspiring.
But to me there is difference between that and idolizing another person (and just so we’re clear, I’m not talking about the OP here, but more generally). At the end of the day, you have to live with you and what you can achieve on your own.
I guess what I’m trying to convey is I think it’s very “beta” to be envious of another man’s physique - and don’t we lift to become stronger, better versions of ourselves; not someone else?. If other men’s physiques inspires people to lift harder, though, I guess it’s good. I guess I just think OP could easily out-physique Brad Pitt. He could end up looking better than Brad Pitt if he works hard enough. If he kicks ass for a few years, maybe Brad will come to T-Nation and tell us how he wants to look like OP. But ultimately, OP will look different than Brad, and I just didn’t want him to be disappointed. That’s all.
Wow you have a lot of the same problems that i have dude. One thing that struck me straight away was the amount of fat you gained from oct 2012 to the current pics. That’s a very high ratio of fat to muscle IMO. You started out with a high body fat so it looks like you will have to be extra careful with the food and make sure you are giving it 100% in the gym. Bulking is probably not for you especially considering your goal physique. Also as you are so new to lifting, eating healthy and getting strong as RDS has suggested will transform your physique, don’t underestimate newbie gains they are amazing!
Another thing that struck me was the body on that girl in your first pic. But that’s not really relevant;)
[quote]UFsnook wrote:
[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
So much text haha
In one sentence, what is your goal?
[/quote]
To gain muscle for aesthetics while gaining core/hip/thigh strength to help me as an ice hockey goalie.[/quote]
You were a goalie! Me too what school did you play at?
[quote]stinger70 wrote:
Another thing that struck me was the body on that girl in your first pic.[/quote]
Agreed.
Alright, a lot to respond to.
First, the Brad Pitt thing was just a comparison, not an idolization. Just wanted to give folks an easy visual of what I’m aiming for (substantially increased muscle and ultimately a lower body fat, but not muscular to the level of an NFL linebacker. But who knows what I will want 2 years from now after gains have been made).
Second, been reading into the 5/3/1 for the past while. Looks great. Couple questions on the program RDS outlined. In reading up on Wendler’s program on his stories on T-Nation (like the BBB challenge), I’ve realized there are two ways to do 5/3/1. In BBB, he does not go all out on the final set of the core work (only doing the prescribed # of reps even if you can do more) due to what the accessory lifts are adding. In the standard 5/3/1, he goes all out on the last lift of the core work (except the deload), but doesn’t have the amount of accessory lift RDS added. Looking at RDS’s program with lots of accessory lifts, I imagine I should stick to the prescribed # of reps and not go to failure? Also, are all the accessory lifts 5x10? Wendler suggested doing 50% of 1RM in month 1, 60% in month 2, and 70% in month 3 for the accessory work. Does this mean that if I could do 5x20 with the 50% 1RM in month 1, that I should still just stick to 5x10 with that weight for all sets (or should I increase weight, or alternatively increase reps throughout the sets?). Finally, when warming up to the core lifts, should I just do sets of 5 reps, and slowly add weight, or do some other number of reps?
Third, diet. My diet could definitely be better, but I have made big gains in my eating habits this past year and I see future gains in my dedication to diet around the corner. I’m not ready to address that just now, because I need to get my feet under me with 5/3/1. But I 100% understand that diet is as important (or more) than my gym time. I will bring up diet in a serious way in about a month when I am ready to commit to something a bit more regimented that includes macro-tracking.
Stinger, yes, I did add a fair amount of body fat. I think there are a couple things driving that. First, having just started out in the gym it took me a while to get lifts heavier, and my programs were all over the place. Also, between October and now I probably traveled for a cumulative total of 30-40 days, which involved eating out every meal, drinking a lot, and not having gym access. I bet a lot of fat went on during that month of travel. I’ve only got 1 trip planned for the next 6 months, and that will be a week of sleeping in a tent in Alaska, so not too worried about getting fat out there. But seeing my transition over this period is what motivated me post here to get advice. Excited to see what 5/3/1 and an upcoming diet revamp will do for me moving forward.
Young33, I played at Duke in undergrad (yeah I’m smart and probably a douche bag, don’t judge).
To everyone else, yeah, that girl was crazy hot. Almost didn’t crop her out of the pic to brag, but figured that it would be too distracting if I left her completely in the pic. Go visit Venezuela sometime.
[quote]UFsnook wrote:
Second, been reading into the 5/3/1 for the past while. Looks great. Couple questions on the program RDS outlined. In reading up on Wendler’s program on his stories on T-Nation (like the BBB challenge), I’ve realized there are two ways to do 5/3/1. In BBB, he does not go all out on the final set of the core work (only doing the prescribed # of reps even if you can do more) due to what the accessory lifts are adding. In the standard 5/3/1, he goes all out on the last lift of the core work (except the deload), but doesn’t have the amount of accessory lift RDS added. Looking at RDS’s program with lots of accessory lifts, I imagine I should stick to the prescribed # of reps and not go to failure? Also, are all the accessory lifts 5x10? Wendler suggested doing 50% of 1RM in month 1, 60% in month 2, and 70% in month 3 for the accessory work. Does this mean that if I could do 5x20 with the 50% 1RM in month 1, that I should still just stick to 5x10 with that weight for all sets (or should I increase weight, or alternatively increase reps throughout the sets?). Finally, when warming up to the core lifts, should I just do sets of 5 reps, and slowly add weight, or do some other number of reps?
[/quote]
Who am I to question Wendler? But, 50 reps at 70% of your 1RM doesn’t make any sense. That’s way WAY off the charts on Prilepin’s Table and more taxing than the actual prescribed 5/3/1 work. Maybe that’s some special challenge I’m not aware of, but trust me when I say that your first stab at BBB will be brutal, so I would stick to 40-50% at 5x10 for probably the first few mesocycles. But you know, feel it out. If you don’t feel taxed, push the %. But, from experience, 5x10 at 50% of your 1RM DL after the 5/3/1 work, for instance, is enough to make a grown man cry.
Accessory work is generally meant to be high-rep, lower intensity. I also think, from a hypertrophy and recovery perspective, you want to be in that high-rep range to stay fresh, session to session. So, definitely give RDS’s plan a run.
With respect to pushing the last set of 5/3/1, that’s all individual preference. You can push each lift every session. You can push some during the week but not others, or none at all. You can even add a couple high % singles at the end, instead. It doesn’t really matter, particularly if you are going to load up on accessories.
My personal recommendation is this; Pick your weakest lift, and push only that each week during your first cycle. If you feel good going into the next cycle, pick your second weakest lift and push both each week until the cycle is over. Rinse and repeat. Eventually you’ll hit a point where you realize what’s too much or too little. The frequent deloads are helpful in this regard, because it allows you to dial down or up pretty easily.
Also, don’t be cheap. Buy his book. Not only does it give some great advice, but it’s how he feeds his family.
[quote]Mad Martigan wrote:
Who am I to question Wendler? But, 50 reps at 70% of your 1RM doesn’t make any sense.[/quote]
remember that you use 90% of your max to do the calculations, so it’s 70% of 90% of your max…
as for your questions UF, my humble opinion is:
-I would push it on the final set of every big lift. Why not? The deload week should take care of any accumulative stress on your joints. Just stop when you reach TECHNICAL failure (when your form goes to shit). Don’t do any sloppy reps.
-I would personally vary the weight on the BBB sets, but that’s just because I’ve never really enjoyed doing straight sets. So say 100k is your max, you could do ten reps at 40, 50, 60, 50, 40 or whatever. Play around and see what suits you.
-You can do however many sets you think is necessary on the accessory stuff. More sets for big lifts like chins and rows (say 4), with less for the smaller lifts like curls (say 3).
-when warming up on the core lifts, 5 for the first couple, then three, then one, then BAM! Work sets. Again, this is something you’ll need to play around with yourself and see what’s best for you.
-As for your diet, well what can I say? Hit your protein target and quit eating like shit. No refined sugar or oils.
So there you go. A lot of what you asked comes under the “it depends” umbrella and you are going to have to do some experimentation on your own. That’s the fun part! It’d be no fun if someone laid out every little thing for you…
Ok, I’ve been digesting the 5/3/1 eBook and reading up on as much of Wendler’s online content as possible. Here is my plan.
To set things up, my biggest questions remaining are:
(1) does the diet look good, and any other meal suggests?
(2) I have pain in my piriformis, which has been a chronic problem. How can I address this either during my assistance work, or while I am doing “DeFranco’s 8” on off-days.
(3) Glute ham raises or back extensions as an assistance exercise. Specifically in relation to my piriformis issue (if either of these could help)
Here is my diet plan. At least 28 meals a week, with a minimum of 25 being a ?quality? meal as defined in Wendler’s eBook. Some examples that I have been doing:
Breakfast: 4 eggs + ¼ cup non-fat cheese. An apple. 1 scoop whey protein blended with milk and a serving of oatmeal.
Lunch: 6 oz (post-cooking wt) of chicken breast. A serving of brown rice, 1-2 servings of black beans w/onion, veggie. 1 scoop of Whey in water
Dinner: 10 oz steak, red potatoes, veggie. 1 scoop of Whey in water
For veggies, I typically do steamed broccoli, butter sautéed squash/zucchini, or canned veggies. Any other thoughts on non-frozen (can’t stand the texture) veggies I can incorporate easily?
Any other meal ideas appreciated. I basically eat as much as possible, finishing the serving of meat and eating as much of the carbs as possible (which is not currently enough, but we will see if my stomach grows) and drinking a protein shake after.
For the training, I think it would be best for me to start on the beginners routine for the first 2-4 cycles, before moving to a 4 day routine (or I may even stick to a 3-day routine based on how my body feels in terms of recovery).
Monday
DeFranco?s 8 + Jump rope warmup
Squat 5/3/1 sets/reps
Bench 55%x5, 65×5%, 75%x5
Dips and chins
Face pulls 15-20 x 3-5 sets
Hill sprint conditioning
Wednesday
DeFranco?s 8 + Jump rope warmup
Deadlift 5/3/1 sets/reps
Press 5/3/1 sets/reps
Back raises (or glute ham raises?), Kroc rows (my grip strength is terrible), and reverse curls (love how they feel for my weak forearms)
Hill sprint conditioning
Friday
DeFranco?s 8 + Jump rope warmup
Bench 5/3/1 sets/reps
Squat 55%x5, 65%x5, 75%x5
Dips and chins
Face pulls 15-20 x 3-5 sets
Hill sprint conditioning
My first goal with the assistance work is to be able to do 100 dips and chins per week on a consistent basis. I will also be doing DeFranco?s 8 on my off days for lower-body flexibility. For those off days, I would really appreciate any stability/rehab exercises I can add to help with pain in my piriformis. I?m not sure if I should go with back raises or glute ham raises as an assistance workout, is one better than the other for piriformis issues?
Thanks again for all the guidance. Been in the gym the past two days getting my 1RM figured out and easing into parts of the routine like the hill sprints, gonna hit the ground on monday.
get a lacrosse ball, sit with one leg bent like you’re sitting cross legged, and have the other leg out in front of you. The bent leg is the one with the piriformis pain.
Sit with your asscheek of the bent leg on the lacrosse ball and move around on it til you hit the piriformis. When it happens you’ll know.
Now internally/externally rotate the hip of your bent leg by moving your knee towards you and out again. Do it til the pain lessens. Might take a while so be patient.
BAM! No more piriformis pain.
One thing that caused me horrendous piraformis pain was that my wallet was always in my back right hand pocket lol
Years of sitting on that thing just crushed the whole area constantly.
Idk about 5/3/1 for someone who wants to look like Brad Pitt. Seems superfluous.
OP, check out the first program I posted in Nez1Nez thread. That would definitely suit your goals. And eat paleo. Done.
he also said he wanted to get stronger for sports, so I figured 5/3/1 with high rep accessory stuff was a good happy medium
I think the Brad Pitt thing may be getting blown a bit out of proportion in this thread. That was just a rough toss out of an idea. Besides, as I’ve progressed over the past 1-2 years, my goals have also progressed substantially. I think my goals can be simplified to say:
“Get bigger to fill in my skinny frame, get stronger for sports, and eventually look better aesthetically.”
I think I need to make progress on the main 4 lifts before I get to a point I can focus on aesthetics. I have a lot of strength to gain and mass to put on before I can really consider what my body will ultimately look like. I get the feeling that 5/3/1 is a good way to approach this and when my strength gets to where I need, I can move to body building assistance work easily. Plus, reading the 5.3.1 eBook was surprisingly motivating, and makes me want to follow Wendler. NoV is on the of the best pep-talks I’ve ever read.
CT’s 6 weeks to superhero might be some food for thought then. If not to follow to the t, you can at least draw inspiration from it.
You can make progress towards your goal while making progress on the main 4 lifts.
Also, I’ll ask, why do you feel you need to focus on the main 4 lifts? I’m just playing devil’s advocate. Personally, I notice my best progress “aesthetically” when I ditched this mentality and actually focused my training around stiff-leg deadlifts, incline press, smith shoulder press, leg press, and hack squat instead of the Big 4.