6 Yr Old Gets TSA Pat Down

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

So you agree it’s an issue of swapping liberty for security?[/quote]

At the moment, since we still have the option to “opt out” of flying, it’s not 100% black and white. I still have the liberty to choose not to relinquish my rights, and keep my children from getting felt up by govt agents.

But when it comes, and it’s coming, to the point where any travel has to be govt “approved” via molestation, applying for “permission” and what have you, then you can look in the mirror and find the person responsible for it reaching that level. All because you went along with it when it was only applied to flying.

And I’ll be long fucking gone from these shores when that day arrives.

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

So you agree it’s an issue of swapping liberty for security?[/quote]

At the moment, since we still have the option to “opt out” of flying, it’s not 100% black and white. I still have the liberty to choose not to relinquish my rights, and keep my children from getting felt up by govt agents.

But when it comes, and it’s coming, to the point where any travel has to be govt “approved” via molestation, applying for “permission” and what have you, then you can look in the mirror and find the person responsible for it reaching that level. All because you went along with it when it was only applied to flying.

And I’ll be long fucking gone from these shores when that day arrives.
[/quote]

LOL. So, what is is that you’re doing, while looking in the mirror, other than driving to another country to fly? Are you fucking serious? If my company sends me on a trip, like many other working people, we do not have the option to “opt out”. You’re being ridiculous now and you’ve completely ignored my post about the Israeli airport.

On the one hand, we’re “faggots” for relinquishing our rights (yet in the same post you felt the need to add “sic” to an awkward sentence by me - precious really.) but I’ve illustrated that rights are more infringed in other countries - they profile and do searches.

So which is it? Do you have a point other than the traveling public that doesn’t want to go to Mexico (and oh yea, you have TONS of rights in Mexico lmfao) are faggots or, do we need to give up some rights?

What exactly is your point?>

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

LOL. So, what is is that you’re doing, while looking in the mirror, other than driving to another country to fly? Are you fucking serious? If my company sends me on a trip, like many other working people, we do not have the option to “opt out”. You’re being ridiculous now and you’ve completely ignored my post about the Israeli airport.

On the one hand, we’re “faggots” for relinquishing our rights (yet in the same post you felt the need to add “sic” to an awkward sentence by me - precious really.) but I’ve illustrated that rights are more infringed in other countries - they profile and do searches.

So which is it? Do you have a point other than the traveling public that doesn’t want to go to Mexico (and oh yea, you have TONS of rights in Mexico lmfao) are faggots or, do we need to give up some rights?

What exactly is your point?>[/quote]

I’ve never been grouped, molested, or even been made to remove shoes in any airport outside of the UK or US. In many countries that face a far greater risk/threat of terrorism than the US does. Why? Because they apparently have the experts neither of those has, and with no seeming agenda of turning their nations into a prison.

Yes, average joes such as yourself have no real recourse, which is why you should be angrier about the situation. But apparently you are quite docile enough to “go along to get along”.
I didn’t respond to your Israel post? So? What’s with this hero worship of the IDF and their state security services? Have you ever trained/deployed or had any relevant experience with either? I have, and last time I checked they put their pants on just like everyone else, and didn’t have this near mythical ability to be counter terror experts more so than anyone else with some common fucking sense.
But whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. I suppose I’d be scrambling for justification too if I didn’t have issues with strangers grouping my kids.

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

LOL. So, what is is that you’re doing, while looking in the mirror, other than driving to another country to fly? Are you fucking serious? If my company sends me on a trip, like many other working people, we do not have the option to “opt out”. You’re being ridiculous now and you’ve completely ignored my post about the Israeli airport.

On the one hand, we’re “faggots” for relinquishing our rights (yet in the same post you felt the need to add “sic” to an awkward sentence by me - precious really.) but I’ve illustrated that rights are more infringed in other countries - they profile and do searches.

So which is it? Do you have a point other than the traveling public that doesn’t want to go to Mexico (and oh yea, you have TONS of rights in Mexico lmfao) are faggots or, do we need to give up some rights?

What exactly is your point?>[/quote]

I’ve never been grouped, molested, or even been made to remove shoes in any airport outside of the UK or US. In many countries that face a far greater risk/threat of terrorism than the US does. Why? Because they apparently have the experts neither of those has, and with no seeming agenda of turning their nations into a prison.

Yes, average joes such as yourself have no real recourse, which is why you should be angrier about the situation. But apparently you are quite docile enough to “go along to get along”.
I didn’t respond to your Israel post? So? What’s with this hero worship of the IDF and their state security services? Have you ever trained/deployed or had any relevant experience with either? I have, and last time I checked they put their pants on just like everyone else, and didn’t have this near mythical ability to be counter terror experts more so than anyone else with some common fucking sense.
But whatever helps you sleep at night I guess. I suppose I’d be scrambling for justification too if I didn’t have issues with strangers grouping my kids.[/quote]

Let me start by saying that since you were the first to invoke the use of “sic” in an internet post of all places, I’ll point out that it’s “groping”, not “grouping”. But I digress.

Do you have a point here? Because if you do, you have failed to articulate it. What you have done, is engaged in what apparently is the style of PWI - fallacious arguments. Strawmen and now, I “worship” the IDF because I illustrated a point by referencing their procedures against ours. Ignore the point, and misdirect by claiming I “worship” them. LOL. Good one.

Next, you sound like you’re quite the average joe yourself. Apparently, you’re willing to drive over the border to fly. Sounds to me like you enjoy no special status.

You claim that other countries have better security without “turning their countries into a prison”. My perception is that their citizens have LESS liberties and that those security forces to profile and engage in searches when they deem necessary - as illustrated by my prior example. I’ve asked you once before, and you responded with a non-sequitur, whether it was an issue of surrendering liberties. You followed with some cliche about it not being that “black and white”, but you failed to offer anything concrete other than, apparently you haven’t had to remove your shoes in foreign airports. Brilliant! Apparently, deciphering your posts, the answer lies within not having travelers remove their shoes! See how the fallacious approach works?

Scrambling for justification? Reading comprehension fail sir. In this thread, I have said that, I found it a bit excessive, that I did not believe it was done in a harmful way (your histrionic reference to groping aside) and, that I support profiling as effective policing.

And since you imply to intend to flee this country, it sounds to me like you’re every bit the “average joe” as the rest of us.

Ugh…spell checking. Great way to completely kill a discourse I was beginning to enjoy.

Anyway…watch your nuts bro.

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
Ugh…spell checking. Great way to completely kill a discourse I was beginning to enjoy.

Anyway…watch your nuts bro. [/quote]

You started with the “sic”. It was not a discourse. It was you arguing fallaciously while avoiding making a concrete point of your own, with a few insults peppered here and there (average joes, faggots, etc.).

Anyway…watch your gas mileage driving over the border. And enjoy life abroad.

I will. (you wouldn’t believe how much cheaper gas in in some places outside the US.)

[quote]Lowe-1 wrote:
I will. (you wouldn’t believe how much cheaper gas in in some places outside the US.)[/quote]
Certainly not in Canada, my dad crosses the border to buy gas.

A bit off topic but last time I went to the airport to see the family off, I think I was probably the ONLY guy with a gun. Saw lots of TSA guys in their fancy v-necks with badges but not one single fucker with a gun.

Pathetic.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
What the fuck happened to the 4th amendment?[/quote]

You’re submitting to the search voluntarily; it’s a condition of flying. You don’t have an inalienable “right” to fly.[/quote]

This assumes that the security conditions/procedures are the same when you bought your ticket as the ones experienced in the airport on the day you fly. Otherwise, what you agreed to when you bought your ticket has changed when you go to fly.

edit: They do not post the procedures on the TSA website, I looked to see what they were for kids. It is kinda like paying a service for a ride to the airport and they can show-up with a rickshaw or a limo, their choice.

Also on subject.

Why the TSA pat-downs and body scans are unconstitutional

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
What the fuck happened to the 4th amendment?[/quote]

You’re submitting to the search voluntarily; it’s a condition of flying. You don’t have an inalienable “right” to fly.[/quote]

This assumes that the security conditions/procedures are the same when you bought your ticket as the ones experienced in the airport on the day you fly. Otherwise, what you agreed to when you bought your ticket has changed when you go to fly.

edit: They do not post the procedures on the TSA website, I looked to see what they were for kids. It is kinda like paying a service for a ride to the airport and they can show-up with a rickshaw or a limo, their choice. [/quote]

Your “contract” is with the airline (issuer of the ticket). TSA does not issue tickets and airlines do not make security policy. You don’t have to fly. You have a right to refuse. You are not obligated to fly. And you have no more right to fly than you do to drive.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
What the fuck happened to the 4th amendment?[/quote]

You’re submitting to the search voluntarily; it’s a condition of flying. You don’t have an inalienable “right” to fly.[/quote]

This assumes that the security conditions/procedures are the same when you bought your ticket as the ones experienced in the airport on the day you fly. Otherwise, what you agreed to when you bought your ticket has changed when you go to fly.

edit: They do not post the procedures on the TSA website, I looked to see what they were for kids. It is kinda like paying a service for a ride to the airport and they can show-up with a rickshaw or a limo, their choice. [/quote]

Your “contract” is with the airline (issuer of the ticket). TSA does not issue tickets and airlines do not make security policy. You don’t have to fly. You have a right to refuse. You are not obligated to fly. And you have no more right to fly than you do to drive. [/quote]

Well, you dont have a “right” to water and eöectricity either.

How about we make everyone “voluntarily” agree to random searches when they are supplied by their municipality?

After all, they could be used for illegal endeavours.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Big Banana wrote:
What the fuck happened to the 4th amendment?[/quote]

You’re submitting to the search voluntarily; it’s a condition of flying. You don’t have an inalienable “right” to fly.[/quote]

This assumes that the security conditions/procedures are the same when you bought your ticket as the ones experienced in the airport on the day you fly. Otherwise, what you agreed to when you bought your ticket has changed when you go to fly.

edit: They do not post the procedures on the TSA website, I looked to see what they were for kids. It is kinda like paying a service for a ride to the airport and they can show-up with a rickshaw or a limo, their choice. [/quote]

Your “contract” is with the airline (issuer of the ticket). TSA does not issue tickets and airlines do not make security policy. You don’t have to fly. You have a right to refuse. You are not obligated to fly. And you have no more right to fly than you do to drive. [/quote]

Well, you dont have a “right” to water and eÃ?¶ectricity either.

How about we make everyone “voluntarily” agree to random searches when they are supplied by their municipality?

After all, they could be used for illegal endeavours.

[/quote]

You’re building a strawman. The above is not my point and you know it. I’m just supplying the dry facts. You don’t have a right to fly. You don’t even have a right to drive. And I know you’re not possibly comparing water and electricity to airline travel. C’mon man. And you guys are barking up the wrong tree implying I’m some passive-take-my-rights kinda guy. When I’m stopped driving by LEO and they ask where I’m going, they get my license, registration, insurance card and a blank look. My points here are not expressing a feeling of surrender, but of pragmatic analysis of this incident.

I had four points when I made this thread. It looked excessive, butthe pat down was conducted gently, I think the parents made it traumatic and, I’m in fully in favor of profiling.

Of course I’m in favor of changing our security protocols.

BG - I have been looking for the article I read this for the last couple of days and will keep looking, but the authors point was that the Supreme Court has set precedent that the federal government cannot restrict or hamper movement within the nations borders. (Again, I am looking) But since the TSA protocols are for domestic flights, and given the continued backlash, the security measures could be seen as an impediment to travel. (If you read the article I posted earlier there are some other constitutional issues at play about privacy, etc.)

Consider this scenario. What if the TSA had check points at state lines, where the individual and their cars would get the once over and searched? I imagine that people would argue that this procedure would hamper interstate travel (among other things). I do not see that this is any different from the current procedures with flying. Especially since the TSA are starting to implement the same procedures on trains.

I really don’t get what all the fuss is about.

I travel for work often (around 150,000 miles a year), the delays have been very minimal at best…And I will trade a slight delay for a more secure flight.

The U.S. is more a risk for a terrorist attack than a foreign country…hence the higher precautions.

I am beginning to think that the same type of people that sue McDonald’s for spilling hot coffee on themselves are the same people bitching about the TSA.

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:
BG - I have been looking for the article I read this for the last couple of days and will keep looking, but the authors point was that the Supreme Court has set precedent that the federal government cannot restrict or hamper movement within the nations borders. (Again, I am looking) But since the TSA protocols are for domestic flights, and given the continued backlash, the security measures could be seen as an impediment to travel. (If you read the article I posted earlier there are some other constitutional issues at play about privacy, etc.)

Consider this scenario. What if the TSA had check points at state lines, where the individual and their cars would get the once over and searched? I imagine that people would argue that this procedure would hamper interstate travel (among other things). I do not see that this is any different from the current procedures with flying. Especially since the TSA are starting to implement the same procedures on trains. [/quote]

Didn’t get a chance to check your link yet but I will. I’m not sure what to think. I’m not so sure that giving up some liberty to get on a plane is a big deal if it’s in the interest of security. The question then becomes does that surrender of liberty bleed into other areas of our lives. That’s the tough question. I want people screened, searched and profiled before getting on a plane.

I think the TSA could have handled the scanners in a friendlier and just as effective way. They could used scanners that do not use radiation, they have them, and used a generic silhouette software, which they were offered years ago and now have. That would have avoided much of the medical and privacy issues and some Constitutional issues as well.

What they did instead speaks more of power rather than concern for citizens. I bet of they had done what I suggest above and gotten rid of the metal detectors there would have been fewer complaints. Combine that with better customer service (honey rather than vinegar) and not using intensive pat downs as a way of forcing compliance (which is their purpose) people would feel safer and less antagonistic.