Isn’t it as taxing as my original workout plan? Why will it offer better results?
If you like complexes and you like to workout 3 times a week.
And you don’t want to do 5/3/1 as laid out in the books and the forums, then here is an alternative.
Dan John has a neat little routine called Mass Made Simple.
It’s on the forum. Look it up.
You wanted us to critique your setup and offer better alternatives… don’t question why, just try it and see how it works, or don’t… Jim wrote books on why, read them or continue to do it your way and don’t ask.
Well Marc4497 routine has severel differences.
First of:
Cycle 1 and 2 has you doing 5’s pro, that isn’t as taxing as PR sets.
Second he has you doing BBB in the supplemental, That is though but doable That will take care of the growing stuff and make you swole.
Third the assistance stuff, is assistance. nothing taxing.
you do some pull ups, push ups, db press db row’s and some core work or single leg work. That will also take gare of them gainzzz.
I think what triggers a lot of us wendler guys is that you do barbell lifts after your main work. In the long run, we believe it will make you suffer.
I tell you right of the bat, that if you do your top set of squats with 250+ pounds you just dont want to tax that lower back with more DL, Barbel Row, Squat, GM and press that also taxes the lower body.
So as I mentioned if you like complexes try that Dan John routine.
Or try something that Jim has approved.
Or try your own stuff, maybe ask the question in the BB forum, they are more likely to give you an answer.
Unfortunately I do not really understand the 5s Pro template. I have read the Beyond Book where it is first written but I cannot prepare a workout plan.
Should I do 2 cycles of Full Body Template. Wouldn’t it be better to start with a simple one and then maybe add the Bbb or joker sets or maybe fsl?
5’s pro is simply doing 5 reps on all sets all weeks no PR sets.
Then you do your BBB or FSL.
Then the assistance work.
NO JOKER
Do that for 2 cycles, then do the 7’th week deload (or another deload week).
Thats the leader cycle
Then it’s time for the Anchor.
Here you do the the OG template of 5/3/1 with PR sets.
IF you are strong, set a new PR and the weights feel light and the reps crisp, then AND ONLY then you do the joker sets.
Now do FSL for 2-3 sets all the effort should be in the PR set.
Then some assistance.
It’s not rocket science, read the book(s) pick a template follow it, don’t change it.
Jim’s work is all about keep doing it, for a long time. If you do it for 2 - 3 cycles and claims it dosen’t work. it’s fine. find something else.
OR keep pushing the weights for 6 - 12 months.
When you have done it for 2 - 3 years you will know your body, now you can change the assistance, the supplemental, even the main lifts. And by that time you will not ask, you will just do it, because you know it’s the right thing to do.
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Yes it likely would. If you have never done 5/3/1 before you would probably get a lot out of just running the base program for several cycles. Then you could see how you respond to it, and as you add in other stuff you will get a good idea of what works for you and what doesn.t
If you have 5/3/1 Second Edition you could just pick a basic template from it like the Triumvirate and do it for a few months to get aquainted with the program and how you respond to it. I have run the base program for long stretches and still make good progress. I really didn’t throw in a lot of other stuff like FSL or BBB until I decide to focus on powerlifting.
A lot has been thrown at you so far, and I can imagine you may be getting a bit confused or overwhelmed. I will just recommend you do what I do when I am not sure what direction to take my training. Just do the base program. Its better to get to work than suffer from paralysis by analysis.
Finally, since your are a runner and I assume you will continue to run I will say this: be mindful of how your lifting, running, and diet fit together. If your not gaining muscle, try eating more or running less or both. It is also possible for you to get stronger without putting on muscle as well so keep that in mind.
When its all said and done, run the base program, do what is necessary to achieve your goals, and adjust accordingly to how your body is responding.
I think that I will do 2 cycles of Full Body 5s Pro without Fsl or BBB.
And after that I will add the BBB. Would this be OK?
Just to be clear you know what Full Body is right? What you originally posted is not Full Body.
Fully Body is a Squat, a Push, and a Pull on every training day. You do this 3 days a week.
Full Body could be a good place for you to start as the squat volume would be good to add mass and strength. Could be tough if you plan on doing lots of running though so beware of that.
I will give it a try for the next weeks and I will see how ti goes
Thank you for your time and all your answers. I have one more question. Should I do chins and dips for assistance work? Do I do them every day? Which days do I do them?
This guideline is a solid one for assistance work:
50 reps of pulling
50 reps of pushing
50 reps of core or single leg work
Up it to 100 reps when you are running the original 5/3/1 with PR sets.
This is to be done every training day. Remember, this is just a guideline. You can do more if you want or less if you want, but remember what your goals are and adjust accordingly.
In addition to the above you could do a set of dips between every set of squats and deadlifts, and a set of chins between every set of bench press or overhead press. This is not to be done in a way to get a “pump” or to tire you out. Just to get a bit more pushing and pulling volume in your training. As you are just starting out and probably at a healthy BMI this would be a good way for you to get a bit more work in.
I just finished my first cycle and I have a question/problem. The Squat and Deadlifts were easy as they were supposed to. But during the last set on last week of the cycle (95% of training max), the Bench Press was really hard and the Overhead Press was not easy. Should I increase the training max of squats and Deadlift, keep the same of Overhead Press and lower by 10% the Bench Press?
You may do 5 forward/3 back or learn about the 7th week protocol.
Yes but my bench press was really taught, so it goes against what Jim says. To start low.
Do you recommend that I go forward?
That is a tough one to answer.
3 ways to do it.
lower the TM for BP and press
keep the TM for BP and press
increase the TM for BP and press
This is your first run on the wendler stuff as I recall.
As many you proberly put your TM “high” on PB medium on press and just right on the lower lifts.
I do that frequently and there is a payback every time.
As very manly men, we don’t like our BP to look as if there is no weight on the bar. So we tend to put the BP TM to high.
We don’t want to look like fools on a to heavy squat so we choose the right TM here.
So to answer your question increase all TM as supposed.
Fail or succes and prepare to be humble 
After the second cycle of 5’s pro, do a deload week.
Then increase the TM and do 1 cycle of OG 531 with PR sets.
Then it’s time to evaluate.
Good luck and welcome to Wendlers world.
Remember you do not put 50 pounds on your PR in 4 weeks, it takes many many months for some years.
How many reps did you get?
And this is explained in the books…
I got 5,but I could not do a sixth…
You are fine.
Take a deload week, increase TM properly and keep going.
Again, all explained in the books.
This is the first cycle he is doing.
I would increase TM do another cycle.
1 deload week.
Increase again.
1 cycle of OG 531 with PR sets.
Then evalute.
How did it go?
What was good - what was bad.
Deload - 7’th week protokol do a 5 RM on either all lifts or the lifts way off track.
Now he has a lot of information on, how the body reacts to Wendlers stuff.
There is room to play with FSL stuff, BBB or some other programs of Wendlers.
Me? I would just do the OG 531 with FSL PR sets as well. Milk the OG for as long as possible.