47% Don't Pay Taxes

I know this isn’t really news to many here, but I think it bears repeating as the numbers continue to rise. IIRC it was ~45% in 2008.

Prediction: This will be well over 50% in 2010.

[i]NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) – Most people think they pay too much to Uncle Sam, but for some people it simply is not true.

In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.

Some in that group will even get additional money from the government because they qualify for refundable tax breaks.

The ranks of those whose major federal tax burdens net out at zero – or less – is on the rise. The center’s original 2009 estimate was 38%. That was before enactment in February of the $787 billion economic recovery package, which included a host of new or expanded tax breaks.

The issue doesn’t get a lot of attention even as lawmakers debate how to pay for policy initiatives like health reform, whether to extend the Bush tax cuts and how to reduce the deficit.

The vast majority of households making up to $30,000 fall into the category, as do nearly half of all households making between $30,000 and $40,000.

As you move up the income scale the percentages drop.

Nearly 22% of those making between $50,000 and $75,000 end up with no federal income tax liability or negative liability as do 9% of households with incomes between $75,000 and $100,000.

Of course, income taxes don’t tell the whole story. Workers are also subject to payroll taxes, which support Social Security and Medicare.

When considering federal income taxes in combination with payroll taxes, the percent of households with a net liability of zero or less is estimated to be 24% this year, according to the Tax Policy Center’s estimates.

A key reason why there is a zero-liability group at all is because the U.S. tax system is progressive. Those who bring in more money pay more than those lower down the income scale to support government functions such as national defense and social safety nets like Medicaid for those in need. That progressivity can be dialed up or down.

“Some think it’s too progressive. Some don’t think it’s progressive enough,” said Roberton Williams, a senior fellow at the center.

President Obama falls into the latter camp. He has proposed increasing the income tax burden on families making more than $250,000 and individuals making more than $200,000, while offering new measures to reduce the tax bite for most Americans making less.

One of Obama’s proposals is to extend the 2001 and 2003 Bush tax cuts for everyone except high-income tax filers, which was the group that derived the most benefit from those cuts.

As a result, under Obama’s budget, he would keep the ranks of the non-payers higher than they would otherwise be.

Why the tax-free matter
The question of who pays and who doesn’t is not a trivial matter. But Washington policymakers are not dealing with it in an explicit way.

And that’s a problem, given the country’s fiscal outlook.

If asked to vote up or down on whether they are comfortable with such a large group of voters contributing no federal income tax or payroll tax revenue, the majority may well decide it is appropriate given the means of the households involved. Or they may decide that it’s not.

Either way, that decision should inform the debate about the many costly policies and deficit-reduction strategies that lawmakers will be grappling with for years to come.

“As the number [of nonpayers] becomes larger, we have to question whether we’ll make good decisions about how to allocate resources,” economist George Zodrow, a professor at Rice University. “Most people don’t understand how skewed the tax distribution is.”

Experts say that to pay for all the things on the country’s growing tab, the money can’t just come from a shrunken pool of taxpayers.

“Over the long run, you’ll have to have a broader base,” Zodrow said
[/i]

What is bullshit is there are probably at least 1 million housholds who could afford 1,000 of annual federal income tax. I mean sure they would have to cut back on the cigs and beer and lottery tickets, but they would essentially still have a similar quality of life. And that measly 1,000 of tax for a million families would be 1,000,000,000 in money annually for the government.

I’m not saying having bigger government is better, but cutting out such a large group from paying ANY taxes at all, or even worse, GIVING them federal money, makes the burden on those who do pay taxes much higher. Last year me and my girlfriend (now wife) brought home roughly 62,000 and we gave over 10,000 to the federal government, and then another 3,000 to the state government.

So our actual disposable income was cut to 49,000. Now in NY state we have a state sales tax of 8%, so another 3,000 Approx went off that money left over to go towards NY state sales tax. So thats down to 46,000 of our money left, the government now has 16,000 +. If I wanted to dig further, I could calculate how much money the government gets from insurance I pay, the extra Gas taxes, etc… I’m going to go out on a limb and call those extra hidden taxes andother 3,000.

If anyone cares to do the math and correct me please feel free. So now 43,000 out of 62,000 is left for 2 people to pay rent (now a mrtg), put gas in our car, buy food, pay of college and credit cards, have a social life, get cable TV, get Internet, Have Phones, Car payments, insurance payments etc…

This year since I now own a home, I will get to pay even more money to the government in the form of property taxes, school taxes etc… How the fuck do I pay 16,000 in taxes and someone else doesn’t even have to pay 1,000. I mean they pay nothing? WTF!

V

These people have a rude awakening coming. Gravy train is coming to an end in the not so distant future. It’ll be impossible to keep up with our financial obligations otherwise.

I am envious.

[quote] <<< cutting out such a large group from paying ANY taxes at all, or even worse, GIVING them federal money, makes the burden on those who do pay taxes much higher.

V[/quote]

What it does is create a permanent Democrat voting block. Rather than encourage people to be all they can, these worms induce resentment toward those who are or have.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
These people have a rude awakening coming. Gravy train is coming to an end in the not so distant future. It’ll be impossible to keep up with our financial obligations otherwise.[/quote]

Indeed. I was not aware that it had already gotten that bad.

Every paycheck, I feel more and more like the income tax is just another name for theft. I never certainly agreed to support these people.

Alot of businesses pay very little in Federal Taxes. The tax code allows for it. Those people are not breaking the law mind you, just flowing with it. So if they commit nothing illegal why be pissed? Because YOU pay? That’s like a fat person being angry at the thin person for being thin.

Finding ways to make those people “pay” will only enlarge and bloat the Fed to new levels.

[quote]tom8658 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
These people have a rude awakening coming. Gravy train is coming to an end in the not so distant future. It’ll be impossible to keep up with our financial obligations otherwise.

Indeed. I was not aware that it had already gotten that bad.

Every paycheck, I feel more and more like the income tax is just another name for theft. I never certainly agreed to support these people.

[/quote]

Then WAKE UP And stop having your taxes auto deducted from your check. Hire an accountant, file an itemized deduction and start learning how to use the tax laws to your advantage.

The brainless allowing of deductions from your check because it’s “easier” is whats screwing you. Manage your money well and get some control back.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Then WAKE UP And stop having your taxes auto deducted from your check. Hire an accountant, file an itemized deduction and start learning how to use the tax laws to your advantage.

The brainless allowing of deductions from your check because it’s “easier” is whats screwing you. Manage your money well and get some control back. [/quote]

Thank you, I will look into it. I wasn’t even aware I could do such a thing.

That doesn’t change the fact that I shouldn’t have to pay for these entitlement programs. Programs that I almost certainly will not need or even be able to use.

When more people are riding in the cart than pulling the cart, the cart slows down and eventually stops.

[quote]Experts say that to pay for all the things on the country’s growing tab, the money can’t just come from a shrunken pool of taxpayers.

“Over the long run, you’ll have to have a broader base,” Zodrow said [/quote]

Except that the base is shrinking as it becomes more Hispanic. Oh well, more taxes for the rich!*

*Defined according to Steve Sailer’s “Who, Whom?” principle.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
These people have a rude awakening coming. Gravy train is coming to an end in the not so distant future. It’ll be impossible to keep up with our financial obligations otherwise.[/quote]

There will be mass rioting in the streets and huge areas of lawlessness if the gravy train ends. More likely though, the middle class will just have to pay more and everyone will experience a lower quality of life with no potential for improvement.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

Then WAKE UP And stop having your taxes auto deducted from your check. [/quote]

If you do this, and it is not a bad idea, you will HAVE to make quarterly payments or you will end up paying penalties.

Also, if you work for an organization that has a grasp on the real world, you will have to lie, because an employer is not allowed to purposely under withhold on an employee.

You are paying FICA no matter what (Social Security not included for those that work for municipalities and State government. I believe Federal employees are also exempted, but I don’t know for sure.) Everyone pays into medicare, EVERYONE.

Again, good advice, but you can only itemize if you qualify. (Have deductions over a certain threshold.) If you don’t own a home it is unlikely you qualify, although you may still.

Again, good advice, but also not something the lazy or stupid should pursue. You can even up owing quite a bit more if you fuck something up along the way.

The quick and dirty way is take your TOTAL TAX from last years 1040. Multiply it by 1.1, divide that number by how many paychecks you get a year, round up to the nearest ten, and request that amount be withheld for federal. State laws will vary.

[quote]Vegita wrote:

This year since I now own a home, I will get to pay even more money to the government in the form of property taxes, school taxes etc… How the fuck do I pay 16,000 in taxes and someone else doesn’t even have to pay 1,000. I mean they pay nothing? WTF!

V[/quote]

You get to deduct the real estate tax bills on schedule A, as well has mortgage interest, and state taxes paid. This reduces your AGI, therefore your tax bill. I will assume between RE tax, State withholding, Mort Int, and personal property taxes you are over the 2009 standard deduction.

You will exempt out of AMT, so no worries there. But be thankful you don’t live in the city, I believe you have to pay an additional 8% to NYC.

I’m curious how the people in the article are getting FICA back. I have filed countless returns with NOL’s and have never once seen FICA refunded.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Gregus wrote:

Then WAKE UP And stop having your taxes auto deducted from your check.

If you do this, and it is not a bad idea, you will HAVE to make quarterly payments or you will end up paying penalties.

Also, if you work for an organization that has a grasp on the real world, you will have to lie, because an employer is not allowed to purposely under withhold on an employee.

You are paying FICA no matter what (Social Security not included for those that work for municipalities and State government. I believe Federal employees are also exempted, but I don’t know for sure.) Everyone pays into medicare, EVERYONE.

Hire an accountant, file an itemized deduction and start learning how to use the tax laws to your advantage.

Again, good advice, but you can only itemize if you qualify. (Have deductions over a certain threshold.) If you don’t own a home it is unlikely you qualify, although you may still.

The brainless allowing of deductions from your check because it’s “easier” is whats screwing you. Manage your money well and get some control back.

Again, good advice, but also not something the lazy or stupid should pursue. You can even up owing quite a bit more if you fuck something up along the way.

The quick and dirty way is take your TOTAL TAX from last years 1040. Multiply it by 1.1, divide that number by how many paychecks you get a year, round up to the nearest ten, and request that amount be withheld for federal. State laws will vary.[/quote]

x2. And to add to that, your tax liability at the end of the year is going to be your tax liability at the end of the year. How much money you have withheld does not change that at all, it just affects the refund you’ll receive (or extra money you’ll owe if you didn’t have enough withheld). Like CB said, unless you own a home where you can deduct the interest expense, it’s unlikely you qualify to itemize deductions. If you do own a home and haven’t been itemizing deductions, file an amended return for the past few years to itemize and get some extra money back.

[quote]Thomas Gabriel wrote:
Sloth wrote:
These people have a rude awakening coming. Gravy train is coming to an end in the not so distant future. It’ll be impossible to keep up with our financial obligations otherwise.

There will be mass rioting in the streets and huge areas of lawlessness if the gravy train ends. More likely though, the middle class will just have to pay more and everyone will experience a lower quality of life with no potential for improvement.

[/quote]

Add the debt bomb to that:

Thanks for some good info, lanky and beans.

That was basically the conclusion that I came to: I don’t have enough deductions for itemized deduction to make a difference.

[quote]tom8658 wrote:
Thanks for some good info, lanky and beans.

That was basically the conclusion that I came to: I don’t have enough deductions for itemized deduction to make a difference.[/quote]

You can still tax plan, but it may not be worth the cost to you dependent on your numbers, which I wouldn’t feel comfortable talking about openly in this thread.

If you can plan yourself, by all means do it. But without being a business owner (or 1099 subcontractor filing a schedule C) I wouldn’t imagine you make enough to warrant paying $120 and hour for what you will end up getting.

Besides if you made enough, you already would have an accountant…

I love paying for social security. It makes me so happy and I feel so safe knowing that it will never be there for me when I become of age. Fucking baby boomers ruined this country.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m curious how the people in the article are getting FICA back. I have filed countless returns with NOL’s and have never once seen FICA refunded.[/quote]

I don’t think they are actually getting FICA taxes back. I think that they are just getting enough back in refundable tax credits to completely offset what they pay into FICA. I would guess this is mostly people with a few kids getting the extra deduction and the refundable child tax and earned income credits.