41% of Births end in Abortion...100%

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]kamui wrote:
i don’t care if a fetus is already “human” or not, or if it’s conscious or not.
it’s a unique living being.

even if it is nothing more than a mere lump of cells, it’s an extremely complex and absolutely unique lump of cells. Something that took billions of years and billions of contingent events to produce.

the complete and non reversible loss of something unique is never a good thing.
by definition.

when this complete and non reversible loss can be avoided and is not, it’s evil.
by definition.

[/quote]

Then kill yourself now, because you will not be able to live without causing the death of tons of creatures that can make the exact same claim.

102

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher.

103

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
i don’t care if a fetus is already “human” or not, or if it’s conscious or not.
it’s a unique living being.

even if it is nothing more than a mere lump of cells, it’s an extremely complex and absolutely unique lump of cells. Something that took billions of years and billions of contingent events to produce.

the complete and non reversible loss of something unique is never a good thing.
by definition.

when this complete and non reversible loss can be avoided and is not, it’s evil.
by definition.

[/quote]

Then kill yourself now, because you will not be able to live without causing the death of tons of creatures that can make the exact same claim. [/quote]

again :
killing something : not good
killing without necessity : evil

therefore :
killing tons of creatures for survival : not good, sad necessity
suicide : not a necessity → evil

got it ?

104

Oh, look here, 30% of all pregnancies are unwanted and about 20% of them are aborted.

Which gets us closer to 6%, unless of course the Catholic Church claims otherwise, having a monopoly on truth and so on.

http://www.webcitation.org/5zVk3OSM4

Which leads me to…

wait for it…

pish posh.

105

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
i don’t care if a fetus is already “human” or not, or if it’s conscious or not.
it’s a unique living being.

even if it is nothing more than a mere lump of cells, it’s an extremely complex and absolutely unique lump of cells. Something that took billions of years and billions of contingent events to produce.

the complete and non reversible loss of something unique is never a good thing.
by definition.

when this complete and non reversible loss can be avoided and is not, it’s evil.
by definition.

[/quote]

Then kill yourself now, because you will not be able to live without causing the death of tons of creatures that can make the exact same claim. [/quote]

again :
killing something : not good
killing without necessity : evil

therefore :
killing tons of creatures for survival : not good, sad necessity
suicide : not a necessity → evil

got it ?[/quote]

Define necessity.

106

except this is a worldwide statistic.
including the dozens of countries that doesn’t allow abortion.

open a dictionnary.

I’m not disposed to play maieutic games with you.
if you want to contest this specific use of the term, do it, but do it directly.

107

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher. [/quote]

Ok, doubt noted. Not unreasonable to doubt it without further confirmation. I don’t see the name of the study actually in the article, so I’ll look for it in a bit. But, as for the number reported…no, nothing?

108

So far it appears to come from ABC. Looking still.

Edit: Ok, this says the city’s health department actually did the report.

109

[quote]kamui wrote:
except this is a worldwide statistic.
including the dozens of countries that doesn’t allow abortion.

open a dictionnary.

I’m not disposed to play maieutic games with you.
if you want to contest this specific use of the term, do it, but do it directly. [/quote]

Yeah, we’re talking about NY city here…

110

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher. [/quote]

Ok, doubt noted. Not unreasonable to doubt it without further confirmation. I don’t see the name of the study actually in the article, so I’ll look for it in a bit. But, as for the number reported…no, nothing?
[/quote]

If the number of abortions in the US was 1 360 000 and the number of life births 4 100 000, it would mean a ratio of 1360/5460= 25% -ish.

I doubt that it is that much higher than the world average, but even if it was, someone has either been cooking his numbers or not done his homework.

111

[quote]orion wrote:

pish posh.[/quote]

Your pish posh backfires, striking you for 1500 health.

112

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher. [/quote]

Ok, doubt noted. Not unreasonable to doubt it without further confirmation. I don’t see the name of the study actually in the article, so I’ll look for it in a bit. But, as for the number reported…no, nothing?
[/quote]

If the number of abortions in the US was 1 360 000 and the number of life births 4 100 000, it would mean a ratio of 1360/5460= 25% -ish.

I doubt that it is that much higher than the world average, but even if it was, someone has either been cooking his numbers or not done his homework.[/quote]

The topic doesn’t concern the US a whole, Orion.

113

[quote]kamui wrote:
except this is a worldwide statistic.
including the dozens of countries that doesn’t allow abortion.

open a dictionnary.

I’m not disposed to play maieutic games with you.
if you want to contest this specific use of the term, do it, but do it directly. [/quote]

What!?!

I question your definition of necessary.

You could either become a vegan, or only eat very large animals so as to not cause too many deaths or some such.

Your idea of necessary seems to be a synonym for convenient.

114

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher. [/quote]

Ok, doubt noted. Not unreasonable to doubt it without further confirmation. I don’t see the name of the study actually in the article, so I’ll look for it in a bit. But, as for the number reported…no, nothing?
[/quote]

If the number of abortions in the US was 1 360 000 and the number of life births 4 100 000, it would mean a ratio of 1360/5460= 25% -ish.

I doubt that it is that much higher than the world average, but even if it was, someone has either been cooking his numbers or not done his homework.[/quote]

The topic doesn’t concern the US a whole, Orion.[/quote]

Fuck, now I have to dig up the numbers for NYC too?

115

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

pish posh.[/quote]

Your pish posh backfires, striking you for 1500 health. [/quote]

Either I have a lot of hitpoints or I just went up in smoke.

116

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher. [/quote]

Ok, doubt noted. Not unreasonable to doubt it without further confirmation. I don’t see the name of the study actually in the article, so I’ll look for it in a bit. But, as for the number reported…no, nothing?
[/quote]

If the number of abortions in the US was 1 360 000 and the number of life births 4 100 000, it would mean a ratio of 1360/5460= 25% -ish.

I doubt that it is that much higher than the world average, but even if it was, someone has either been cooking his numbers or not done his homework.[/quote]

The topic doesn’t concern the US a whole, Orion.[/quote]

Fuck, now I have to dig up the numbers for NYC too?[/quote]

Dude, I see a 40% figure in the NYT. I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here…

117

[quote]I question your definition of necessary.
You could either become a vegan, or only eat very large animals so as to not cause too many deaths or some such.
Your idea of necessary seems to be a synonym for convenient. [/quote]

vegetal life is life too, so veganism is not a rational answer.
and given the nature of ecosystemic inter-relationships, the number of deaths is not the main criterium. The impact on biodiversity is.
i won’t derail this topic anymore. I can just assure you than my views on these matters are all but “convenient”. You would hate them. I promise.

118

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Seriously though, Orion. The number doesn’t have a chilling effect on you? No, not frustration over “hey, why aren’t they using condoms! It’s more cost effective to us a rubber than pay for an abortion! Does not compute! Does not compute!” I mean a sickening feeling. Informing you that a human tragedy has silently unfolded under our noses? Again, 41%. Still nothing?[/quote]

I seriously doubt that 40% of all pregnancies are aborted.

Unless of course you count those that are “aborted” by mother nature, than the percentage is of course much higher. [/quote]

Ok, doubt noted. Not unreasonable to doubt it without further confirmation. I don’t see the name of the study actually in the article, so I’ll look for it in a bit. But, as for the number reported…no, nothing?
[/quote]

If the number of abortions in the US was 1 360 000 and the number of life births 4 100 000, it would mean a ratio of 1360/5460= 25% -ish.

I doubt that it is that much higher than the world average, but even if it was, someone has either been cooking his numbers or not done his homework.[/quote]

The topic doesn’t concern the US a whole, Orion.[/quote]

Fuck, now I have to dig up the numbers for NYC too?[/quote]

Dude, I see a 40% figure in the NYT. I don’t think there’s a conspiracy here…

Yeah, they are a bunch of filthy bastards.

Not that they do not have the right to be, but still.

edited. the not was kind of important

119

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]I question your definition of necessary.
You could either become a vegan, or only eat very large animals so as to not cause too many deaths or some such.
Your idea of necessary seems to be a synonym for convenient. [/quote]

vegetal life is life too, so veganism is not a rational answer.
and given the nature of ecosystemic inter-relationships, the number of deaths is not the main criterium. The impact on biodiversity is.
i won’t derail this topic anymore. I can just assure you than my views on these matters are all but “convenient”. You would hate them. I promise. [/quote]

Dont worry, if it becomes too much for my tender sensibilities I can always put you on ignore and cry myself to sleep.

120

The moral life or the virtuous life is doing what is good and avoiding what is evil. What is good is to do what helps man flourish or what helps man function well.

According to Kant to figure out if something is good (which would make it a moral obligation), we should look at something within a maxim and apply it universally without exception to reason the consequences.

“It is permissible to have an abortion when pregnant.” Applying it universally without exception we see that within one generation all humanity would end, thus the complete opposite of flourishing or functioning well…death.

Glad we got that over. So, now we go to the legislature with this reasonable argument and over-turn current legislation.