300-400g Protein Per Day?

I’m sure that’s not what he’s saying because a decade or so of anecdotal evidence plus an abundance of research connects cyanidin to improved body comp.

Just wondering what the actual specific daily menu for this would look like? Like, four whole eggs and a cup of egg whites for breakfast (about 50g), 50g protein shake mid-morning, two chicken breasts at lunch (about 80g) , 50g protein shake mid-afternoon, 16oz steak for dinner (About 100g)? Every day?

That’s around 330g. I can’t imagine pounding 400g protein, daily, without shakes playing a bigger role.

No, not what I’m saying. C3G has been shown to improve tons of measurable factors-visceral body fat, lipid profiles, glycemia, insulin resistance index and plaque development measures. I’m saying that the interplay of insulin sensitivity in liver, muscle and fat is complex. By making fat more insulin sensitive you can actually reduce long term insulin levels which can reduce long term progression toward a pre-diabetic state even though C3G seems to directly primarily raise insulin sensitivity in adipose cells. See, that’s not a bad thing because it means less insulin exposure required to get glucose out of the bloodstream and to hold down triglyceride levels.

Do you know who wrote this product description and summary?Indigo-3G Controls Carbs to Build Muscle – T Nation Biotest

Dude could be going vegan and doing jazzercise and still make gains

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I thought I had layered it on thick enough for him to realise I was pulling his chain!

The last time I was six-pack lean was actually the first time I tried it myself, which was a bit of a treat to self as this stuff is expensive in the UK. Of course, diet was completely dialled in with a very high compliance rate so, while acknowledging its efficiacy, I was probably also motivated by the fact I had just spent £300 on supplements and didn’t want to waste them. It’s worth saying, I tried them again with higher calories in a bid to add LBM and there was no change in body comp.

It can seem like that. My own example, I have been making myself this super size omelette (bacon, egg, cheese, chorizo, sausage, burger patty), which is about 1,600 kcals and 100 PRO. I also use a thin cut steak, each one is 160g but packs 44 PRO. It’s very easy to put 3 or 4 away in one sitting. The time I chuck in some hard cheese and a few other bits and pieces I can get upwards of 300 PRO - and that is on OMAD. If you’re eating twice a day it may be even more manageable.

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Unfortunately, and for whatever reason, even with doing 40 minutes moderate intensity on the treadmill a day and lifting 4 times every 8 days my maintenance calories are at about 2100. Even if I relied totally on protein shakes alone I’d hit close to that mark to get to 400 gr of protein.

I did realize that, but the part of my post that you quoted showed me that what I wrote was not what I intended. I wrote that making fat cells insulin sensitive was horrible for body composition. I meant to relay that making fat cells insulin sensitive is “horrible for body comp” in that conventional wisdom is that insulin sensitive fat cells are a bad thing, so you and Chris are both right to raise an eyebrow at what I wrote first, but I had also been referring to Connelly’s videos where he goes deep on the issue of adipose insulin resistance. A key concept is that insulin resistance in fat cells tends to promote hyper-secretion of insulin.

You are missing the point about the thermic effect of protein. At risk of starting another TNation war, I will say this: “All calories are equal. Just that some are less equal than others!” Let’s use this illustration: you consume 400 PRO per day using some fancy powder. That’s 1,600 kcals (1 PRO = 4 kcals x 400 = 1,600 kcals). This leaves you 500 kcals to play with.

Now, no-one really knows how much energy will be used to metabolise the protein. Some estimates are between 20-25%. If accurate, you could deduct 320 and 400 kcals respectively. This now leaves you 820 or 900 kcals to play with.

This is a myopic view, of course. The real notion is that protein is something that is being downgraded into just another energy source, which must be managed accordingly, when it is so much more.

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My suggestion is having big salads with lots of ingredients. Beans, quinoa, squash are great ways to get substance and protein in.

Also, cubed and roasted/browned sweet potatoes are amazing in salads. You can go crazy with the sauces too. Recently I learned I love plain spicy bbq sauce as a dressing… there’s so many options, just don’t stick with the same ingredients week to week and you wont get bored.

What? Has this thread descended into some vegan nightmare? I’m off for a lie down!

Booooo

I recently read that the thermic effect of protein is taken into consideration when given the 4 calories per gram. Unadjusted it is 5.6 to something.

I have eaten over 2g/lb for years and it is not difficult at all. I only recently started using 80-100g from pea protein because I make a couple “dessert” type meals or want creamier oats/cream if rice.

OK, I know that in a bomb calorimeter, protein yields about 25% more heat, or 5.65 calories per gram, and that appears to mirror the thermic effect of food, however I am not sure that they are the same 25%. The calorimeter analyses protein into carbon dioxide, water, and nitrogen gas, but the body only breaks down the nitrogen component of protein into urea and ammonia, and the combustion of urea and ammonia are both exothermic, so my first “reaction” is that the extra 23% is from the difference in taking urea or ammonia to simpler end products with less stored energy.

It could be that the thermic effect of food is already factored out AND that a bomb calorieter yields about 25% more calories for the other reason I mentioned and that the percentage is a coincidence.

Keep in mind as well that the percentage of calories in human feces is substantial and rises with higher caloric intake, and drops with lower caloric intake. I don’t see this as a violation of the calories in, calories out model, but we need to account for reduced calories IN, or increased calories OUT. I have seen estimates that extreme overeaters absorb less than half of ingested calories, and almost zero of the last marginal calories.

Also, some calories are derived from compounds more or less depending on the status of intestinal flora. Healthy gut bacteria turn each gram of fiber into approximately 1 calorie of short chain fatty acids.

Connelly argues for one thing that is puzzling though. He suggests that since a pound of fat releases approximately 3500 Kcal in a bomb calorimeter, that it should yield at least 3500 Kcal of work/heat since the body is inefficient, however that is the wrong application of efficiency. A bomb calorimeter should set an upward limit on the amount of work/heat that a pound of fat can do, and the body, being inefficient, should derive less, or no more than that. Personally, I always lose very close to 1 pound of measured fat per 3500 calorie deficit if my caloric deficit is not too great. The body though tends to become a lot more efficient as caloric reductions get greater, and as a result there is less heat, less calories lost in stool, less daily movement, and fewer metabolic end products released from the body that had energy left (urea etc.)

I will mention too, since he brought it up in his video that prednisone can dramatically raise appetite, increase water retention and blood volume, and increase the percentage of calories absorbed from food.

Back to 400 grams of protein, one concern is that it always raises protein oxidation and hormones that oxidize protein. Second is that it always increases ammonia levels. Third is that it could make it hard to achieve spikes in leucine levels since blood amino acid levels would likely be elevated all the time. That is why perhaps this is a strategy for people who are trying to retain muscle while losing fat, or who have other mechanisms of anabolism.

In the videos I posted, Connelly recommends to get to 200+ grams of protein and <200 grams of carbs. Frank Zane, by the way recommends approximately 200 grams of protein and cycling between three days of 100 grams of carbs with 1 day of 200 grams of carbs (on a deficit of 500-1000 total calories a day) cycling into ketosis. Ketosis itself may result in releasing energetic molecules without deriving the original calculated calories from the since ketones can be released from the body without being oxidized.

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I do not. If you say it was you, my mind’s going to be blown wider than when I found out Arn and Ole Anderson weren’t actually brothers.

EllOhEll
It’s a can of worms for another thread, but… I disagree.

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