@johann77 i think you are right about physiological and psychological causes. I think i never had low testosterone at the first place. I had better testosterone level before than on TRT. TRT has zero positive effects on me. I may have psyclogical issue i guess . I have skin related issues may be that was causing me more depress overall so i am going to see dermatologist. I am getting more depress by thinking that it may shut down my natural level if i keep putting injections which i dont need. I think i will stop trt. Should i stop it right away or is there any way to quit trt? Any help would be appreciated. @hardartery @dextermorgan @systemlord Thanks
@swan9021
If you feel that bad on TRT then you aren’t doing it right. My levels were likely higher than yours pre-trt and I feel much better on it. Granted it took me a year to get there. You CAN feel amazing on TRT if you do it right.
If you want off just gradually reduce your dosage every other week until you’re off or look at the PCT’s folks use in the Pharma section. Basically around 3 weeks from your last shot you use 40mg/day of tamoxifen for 2 weeks and then drop your dosage to 20mg/day for another 2-3 weeks then stop.
40/40/20/20/20
@dextermorgan i think i would give it a last try for another 2 months with 40mg EOD and will not take any armor thyroid. I hope i will feel better otherwise i will follow your advice regarding pct with the help of my doctor
I would try 50mg EOD. If this is a last try you may as well try something more likely to work.
1 Like
Yeah i will try that. Actually i did inject 50mg on Friday night. Does it make any difference if inject at night time? Or its good to inject always at morning. Thanks
Doesn’t matter.
1 Like
Keep in mind that your anxiety could in fact be in part hormone related and could be helped by TRT. Stopping is easy though. PCT might be wise if you do, which would be to run a healthy dose of \tamoxifen or Clomid for 5 weeks - starting high and tapering down. Search PCT in Pharma and you’ll find plenty of info.
1 Like
Just skimmed through this topic and 167 messages with tons of bloodworks and supplements and drugs, one of the first things I see is high cholesterol - how is the diet, and general lifestyle? Stress / Mood / Sleep / Training volume etc. Looks like you’re over trained / under recovering. TRT can’t solve all self inflicted damage.
I’ll suggest here again - get a DUTCH test since serum testing has limited accuracy. It’s pricey but it can’t be a bad investment compared to all the crazy western medicine protocols
Hi Everyone. I quit trt exactly 2 weeks ago(last injection was cypionate 50mg). I am very feeling very high libido from yesterday and today is much higher than yesterday. Plus i have some strange energy and feeling of angerness and strongness at the same time. I was wondering if testosterone is still in my body from my last injecion or it could be restart? Because i really like this feeling right now, never felt like that before trt and also while on trt. No PCT. Thanks
It’s going to be weeks before the cypionate is out of your system, only then can your HPTA have a chance at coming back online. When I stopped TRT I felt great at 3 weeks, before stopping I was at 450 ng/dl and know I must have been around 100 ng/dl or lower.
The fourth week was where I became fatigue, joints popping and clicking, then .5 weeks later HPTA restart and for a day I had high testosterone, no symptoms, high energy, feeling great and actually felt like I did in my 20’s. I think something is suppressing my testosterone and I think it’s the diabetes.
Your HPTA is restarting. Even a dose of 200 mg is cleared to baseline levels after 2 weeks.
Top panel T and E
Bottom panel LH and FSH
2 Likes
I will have to disagree with this statement because I have seen another poster on another forum as of yesterday who was told by his endo to cease TRT and that he didn’t need TRT at 240 ng/dL (Canada) and to do labs after 21 days. The results speak for themselves, his LH was still .1 and his Total T was 201 ng/dL.
This is 21 days after stopping TRT, beyond 2 weeks. If he was to test his levels now I assure you he still has his LH almost fully suppressed.
This is why I don’t put much faith is fancy studies and lab experiments because I see evidence to the contrary that tells me the testing is flawed in some way not accounting for all factors like the rate of metabolism and excretion of T.
He is 27 and did TRT only for 4 to 5 months.
I understand he is young, but the guy I’m referring to wasn’t on TRT for as long either and he still had enanthate in his system, so unless he is the fastest excreter alive, his LH is still almost completely suppressed at 2 weeks and hormone levels are still elevated >200.
He will still have residual amounts of exogenous T in his system in the 3-4th week, once it clears…
This is a well respected doctor making this statement, it’s not even my opinion, I’m simply the messenger.
This this and this.
You’re B12 deficient and more than likely missing a bunch of other micro nutrients as well. Your diet would point that out. If you’re not supplying the proper building blocks with your diet, your body won’t get anywhere near optimal.
Your WBC and basophils continue to be on the high end. Your body continues to fight something. Your A1C is an inflammation marker and is creeping high as well. It’s something more than the flu.
Diet? Sleep? Stress?
@darthmason I amost stopped going gym once i started trt due to burning/needle like feeling on body. Before that i was going 2-3 days a week but had very inactive lifestyle overall, so no chance of overtraining. My diet is good and i am quite lean. My sleep has always been 7-9 hours. I am stress from long time and was blaming that on testoserone
I am doing blood tests from last 3 years and almost always have high wbc, but doctor keep saying me that my body is naturally like that way(almost 4 different doctors). Also about my A1c its been always in that range. I dont know whats going on but after stopping i am feeling already better. So i am sure its not testosterone related whatever it is. I have been almost to every specialisit in 3-4 years and no one has diagnosed anything and have answers to my questions.
So i would just give time to my body and do blood test after 2 months and lets see how things are. Also what do you think about issues that can cause high wbc and A1c at same time. Can only stress and smoking be the reason? Also its shame to admit but i was very much porn addict and has been masturbating 3-4 a week from 8 years.
Super, happy for you. Stay the course!
1 Like
A common misconception of many, to include myself until late last year. My 14 year old eats very poorly and hates vegetables…but is quite lean. He eats 3 meals a day, carbs, protein, and fats. What EXACTLY does your diet look like. Be honest from a micro standpoint and what has your digestion been like?
This is definitely something you should look into further. This is can be a huge contributor to your overall health in so many ways. Test is just one of many codependent systems that can be impacted. Don’t think of Test as a standalone. There are upstream and downstream functions that contribute and can be affected too.
I’m not sure this passes the common sense test to me. It almost sounds dismissive because your labs aren’t extremely high and they don’t have the time in your office visit to dig deeper. That’s where you need to do your own homework. WBCs are created to fight bad things in your body. Saying you’re just naturally high in WBCs goes against basic biology. I think it’s more likely you’ve had elevated WBCs because your body is in an extended battle with something. Based on your digestion and diet responses, it could be as simple as auto immune issues from leaky gut, etc. Your A1C supports that as well. For me, inflammation and auto-immune go hand in hand. You could be eating things you’ve considered normal, but they’re wrecking you on the inside. At this point, anything is possible until you start to run a complete diagnostic on yourself - what goes in, how you feel, what and how it comes out, etc. Then it becomes process of elimination. Have you put 3 years of labs side by side so you can see the changes over time? Build a history and track your inflammation markers (A1C, Ferritin, RDW, Insulin, C Reactive Protein). Then you have something to work with your Doc because he/she just doesn’t have the time to do that deep dive for you. The good news is this is all something you can do and it doesn’t cost anything but your own time and effort to work through.
I went into more detail on the digestion/food side with another member in this thread if you want more detail from my own experiences.
Chances are there is a root cause that is driving your low test and not just low test. Dig deeper…
2 Likes
I am from south asia so it would be hard for you to understand my exactly diet but mostly it consists of wheat, rice and chicken. I hate vegetable too and have been very low on fruits as well. Also i had very bad digestion from almost 4 years like more constipated and unable to digest everything. I am using restoralx since then the issue is resolved. I was diagnosed with H.pylori as well and that was treated but was unable to followup the breath test so it might be there and could be casuing high wbc. Recently two weeks ago i had appointment with dermatologist and was dianosed wih eczema and after taking medication(still taking) my skin has been great. My face swelling has gone completely feels like a new person.
yes very true. I didnt knew stress can cause so many heath issues , i am dealing it now more slowly and trying to be stress free.
I have done that several times, there was nothing suspicious overall except wbc and A1c always been in that upper range.
But for time being its been more than 2 weeks i quit trt and feeling so good. I am getting morning wood daily which i last time get was almost 4-5 years ago. I have more energy and overall feels very good and positive. I hope its a restart and stays like that. Btw thanks for your long response i really appreciate that.
I’ve spent a lot of time in South Asia…I may surprise you!
What’s important is you’ve gone from saying your diet is on point because you’re lean to you hate vegetables and don’t eat fruit. You’ve also now acknowledged you have 4 years of bad digestion. In addition, you have eczema. Guess where that’s coming from? (Say inflammation…)
“Let food be thy medicine and medicine be thy food.”
“All Disease begins in the gut”
― Hippocrates
Although not ALL disease begins in your gut, your digestive system is responsible for a lot of your health…so you should get the point of the quote. What I think we’ve uncovered is, you are essentially missing large amounts of micro nutrients in your diet. B12 deficiency has already been indicated as one. Guaranteed you’re low in many others. These are essential building blocks for your various systems to function properly. You are putting the wrong gas in your gas tank and your car won’t run right as a result…but you’ve been trying to add a synthetic oil to fix the problem instead of addressing the real issue. In addition, you’re unable to digest what you do put in. So you’re taking a double hit and the rest of the dominoes start falling (all your symptoms - fatigue, brain fog, etc) like a snake eating its own tail - a repeating cycle. You can’t produce testosterone because you’re not providing the basic building blocks required to do so in the chain. Multiply this across the other areas as well. Do you know what your iron, ferritin, and TIBC results are or have been?
I would be willing to bet you have auto immune issues (h pylori is one) in your digestive tract that have been wrecking your health. Chances are your elevated WBCs are from 4 years of fighting bad guys leaking out there. This is where your inflammation is coming from internally, and manifests itself on the surface as eczema.
You should start with a hard look at your diet and get your digestion right. Read the post I linked above on pooping. That will tell you if you’re on the right track. You MUST start getting your vegetables in but make sure they are nutrient dense (preferably green but colors are your friend at this point). You already know that you need to get your B12 levels up. Just know that not all supplements are equal. Quality matters in absorption. Read the ingredients. Vitamin C will help with absorption too. Keep fats healthy (fish, avocado, nuts, olive oil). Bring your grains down and your vegetables WAY up. You may want to consider a food sensitivity test to see how bad wheat is messing with you along with a Vit D test. Lastly, how much water are drinking a day? A solid 2 liters a day will do wonders and aid your digestion and constipation.
Bottom line is, this has been a long time running so it will take a while to correct. But you need to be consistent and make it a priority in your day to day so you can heal internally. Like I said before, this is foundational and you do not need a doctor to prescribe this or charge you any money to clean up (with the exception of sensitivity and VitD tests). You can do it all on your own. Get your basics right THEN run labs and see where your new baseline is. AND get you STRESS levels down! That just puts all of this into a pressure cooker and makes it exponentially worse…
1 Like