Let me try to preface everything I’m going to say, because I’m not sure how it’s going to sound over the webs - This has been a great and (mostly) civilized debate so far, so I’m going to do my best to hold my own right now. My knowledge about metaphysics isn’t up to snub, and there is a lot of knowledge floating through this thread that is news to me. What I say following this paragraph is a reflection of things I feel, and things I see - anecdotal observation, if you will. That being said…
I was raised Catholic, and I stayed a fairly devout Catholic for the first 18 or so years of my life. My mom is pretty religious - but nothing extreme (prayers before dinner and bed, church every week, fairly strict observation of religious events year-round.) My dad has gotten more religious the older he gets (which he admits largely in part happening because of a fear of death he never realized he had.) There’s a few things I came across in my short time on Earth that has led me to renouncing my religion.
1.) Animals. We are animals - albeit highly developed and true anomalies amongst other animals. We have advanced means of communication, rational thought (well, some of us, lol,) amongst other intriguing features. But what’s interesting is that we all share the essential biological functions and needs. Water, food, sleep, reproduction, waste expunging and inevitable death. I am sitting in a room with three dogs currently - each of which does everything that we have to to survive, but will eventually die. When they die, their time on Earth was over. The same can be said about humans without a debate.
I can’t come up with a plausible explanation as to what differentiates the human material from other species, and why there is a separate cloud city set aside for us, when all other animals are simply soulless entities that only exist in this worldly realm are due an ultimate and final death, which ends in this realm. I cannot pinpoint this distinction with plausible answers or without another question being asked (i.e., but what about our consciousness vs animals? - it’s a thin cop-out that does not answer the explicit question asked.)
2.) Religious ideals predating anything we worship today. I don’t think a whole lot needs to be said about this, as I’m sure most of you are aware of the Mithras, Zoroastrians, and Egyptian mythologies that predate current religion by thousands of years. Many of these religions provide the exact same template as the ones religions now utilize - Glorious son, Heavenly father, etc. It is no secret that the Bible is quite removed from true religious beliefs and convictions, but how can someone see the exact same story told multiple times and acknowledge that only one of them is correct or true?
3.) This is a tough sell, and doesn’t necessarily discredit nor support the idea of God existing - but through my experiences in churches and with many, many religious people, I have found people of faith to be just as judgmental and abhorrent in their actions than those with oppositional views. Perhaps, when you look through history and wars, it can be said that religious people are much more violent and lack a moral compass as well. This violence occurs because the human condition manifests itself in a way that uses God as an excuse to justify their actions of hatred and dominating force. When something is used as a justification of harming others, I see no fundamental difference between killing in the name of God and killing in the name of a Barbie doll.
4.) Scare tactics. As I sort of alluded to with my father in my initial paragraph, I feel that there is a great hypocrisy that takes place with religion and many people. Most theists, and true students of theology (devout or not,) agree that despite the existence of God or not, the existence of a Hell is rather unlikely and coincide with the fundamental attributes of most religions. Rather, it’s a scare tactic used to entice folks into believing that they are bad (or DOOMED) people if they don’t hold religious views to be truth. Someone please help me out by reminding me of which philosopher argued this, because it’s escaping me now, but the essential theory is that; To believe in a higher entity because it’s more “fail-safe” to believe and worship it is to breach the obvious reason for why someone believes a religion to be true in the first place.
Let me illustrate this better, if that doesn’t make any sense. ::: It takes very little to claim to be religious. Go to church, do no harm to others and believe in the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Being obedient and dutiful towards this God will earn you a seat in His Kingdom, theoretically, no? So why wouldn’t someone perform these actions, just to make sure they’re not a heathen when they meet St. Peter at the pearly gates? Because it is a fundamental flaw in logic. By doing this as a way to cover your ass, you are discrediting the whole “faith” factor (and the BASIS of religion) for personal profit, and less because it’s what you believe to be true. Since there is no way to distinguish between these people and those who believe with true, unflinching blind faith, I see no reason to actually try to discern between the two types.
5.) Body and mind. This one is short and sweet. I see athletes thanking God for allowing them to catch a touchdown pass. God did no such thing - it was their hands, eyes, and body functions that allowed them to create an opportunity. I spent years praying (and essentially trying to bargain and plead) to God in hopes that my requests would be answered. They never were. Eventually, I stopped praying and started doing, and have successfully accomplished everything I intended to do. I know there was no divine influence, because it was my blood, sweat and tears, mental cognition and perseverance that allowed me to do the things I have. This point sort of piggy-backs on my first point, but really, until I see Christopher Lloyd hoist a baseball player thirty feet into the air I will assume that an athlete (or person, you get it) creates opportunity for themselves because they believe they can, and then have the will power to actually carry out said endeavor.
6.) Bonus round, and this isn’t particularly well-thought out, and still piggybacks some on previous points as well. THAT BEING SAID… how can there be so many religions throughout time, and only one of them is correct? Or, I’ve heard the argument that “Belief and faith itself is enough to warrant eternal glorification.” Well, no, according to most religions, that is NOT enough to warrant a spot in God’s Club. Let’s take a Rabbi. This Rabbi is devout and a TRUE humanitarian. Take that at face-value, you’re all intelligent enough to know what this entails. Well, unfortunately for him, Mormonism was the right religion and guess what — You’re fucked! This makes no sense, it truly doesn’t.
I don’t think I clearly illustrated a lot of the points I’m trying to make, but I hope I got close. It’s tough to put such an encompassing and deep debate into a few paragraphs, haha.
I look forward to good responses and earnest debate.
