In regards to your point #3, whether “many Orthodox Jews will readily acknowledge” what you mentioned or not, a careful study of the book of beginnings will cause a reasonable man to eliminate the idea that the word yom can mean anything other than a literal 24 hour day. To do otherwise requires too many gymnastic moves.[/quote]
There is no “day” (as we understand it) without the Sun.
[/quote]
I disagree. My evidence would be that the sun was precisely created on the 4th Day FOR A REASON(s). That reason was distinctly to eliminate the idea that has cropped up since that yom does not mean what it means every other place in the Old Testament.
Remember…ENERGY WAS created on Day One. Vegetation on Day Three. Non literal 24 hour days are a huge problem if you want to insist that vegetation existed for “millions” of years before the Sun. A 24 hour (or less) existence for plants without the Sun is NO problem.
Think about it.
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Could have been seconds or milliseconds instead of 24 hour day also.
Does this page take into account translation errors? Not errors as in conflicting words, but the possibility of the original correct word appearing 0 times in all the translations available to us now.
Could have been seconds or milliseconds instead of 24 hour day also.[/quote]
Ultimately it comes down to this: you have to go with the evidence you have at hand.
This applies to uniformitarianism and the “old universe.”
It also applies to the interpretation of scripture. If scripture overwhelmingly seems to indicate a literal 24 hour day the simplest (Occam’s Razor), most direct way to go is to acknowledge it instead of performing Houdini-like gymnastic moves in order to make it fit.[/quote]
Exactly plus I tend to only get anal retentive and literal in regards to rebuilding a transmission or doing CPR, not faith in Our Lord and savior
OK…so get this…the MOON is moving away from us year by year.
The day used to be 6 hours long…meaning just about all significance we give to a full 7 day week and a Sunday is based off of the Egyptians division of the day into 12 hours of day and 12 hours of night.
Like I said…nothing in the Bible says you can’t ask questions.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Not errors as in conflicting words, but the possibility of the original correct word appearing 0 times in all the translations available to us now.[/quote]
I am not sure what you mean, but the Torah we have today is the Torah of 3,500 years ago, down to the letter. The method for transcribing a Torah scroll is very precise, and one error requires that the entire page be destroyed, and there are multiple checks by other people to make sure this happens.
The validity of the system has been confirmed by reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls (circa 2,300 years ago) and the lack of changes.
There are similar other “test” ancient documents that confirm accurate transcription, down to copies of the Shema (the core prayer of Judaism) found in Egypt that date back 3,000+ years, presumably during the period of our enslavement.
Just finished reading the link. Good stuff. Very thought provoking. Made a lot of sense.
I’d be interested in reading Dr. Matt’s and Steely’s take on it.[/quote]
I will read over it and get back to you, but it may not be until later tomorrow because I have a ridiculous amount of paperwork to do in regards to a major problem with one of my classes.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Not errors as in conflicting words, but the possibility of the original correct word appearing 0 times in all the translations available to us now.[/quote]
I am not sure what you mean, but the Torah we have today is the Torah of 3,500 years ago, down to the letter. The method for transcribing a Torah scroll is very precise, and one error requires that the entire page be destroyed, and there are multiple checks by other people to make sure this happens.
The validity of the system has been confirmed by reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls (circa 2,300 years ago) and the lack of changes.
There are similar other “test” ancient documents that confirm accurate transcription, down to copies of the Shema (the core prayer of Judaism) found in Egypt that date back 3,000 years, presumably during the period of our enslavement.[/quote]
Thanks for providing that.
Otherwise Andy wouldn’t have known all that and would continue to desperately cling to the idea that hypothetical minor errors = invalidation of everything in Scripture.[/quote]
Everything in scripture may not be made invalid, but any errors at all suggest an imperfect God.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Not errors as in conflicting words, but the possibility of the original correct word appearing 0 times in all the translations available to us now.[/quote]
I am not sure what you mean, but the Torah we have today is the Torah of 3,500 years ago, down to the letter. The method for transcribing a Torah scroll is very precise, and one error requires that the entire page be destroyed, and there are multiple checks by other people to make sure this happens.
The validity of the system has been confirmed by reference to the Dead Sea Scrolls (circa 2,300 years ago) and the lack of changes.
There are similar other “test” ancient documents that confirm accurate transcription, down to copies of the Shema (the core prayer of Judaism) found in Egypt that date back 3,000+ years, presumably during the period of our enslavement.[/quote]
Yes the religion dates it around 3,500 years ago but what is the basis on that age? Other attempts at dating it have put it 1000 years or so later. From that point on it may be duplicated error free.
[quote]sufiandy wrote:
Yes the religion dates it around 3,500 years ago but what is the basis on that age? Other attempts at dating it have put it 1000 years or so later. From that point on it may be duplicated error free.[/quote]
Do you understand “sampling”?
We have a very objectively solid method of transcription (letter-by-letter, checked 7 times by 7 people, if I remember correctly).
We have 2,200 year old entire texts that are the same.
We have 3,500 fragments of texts that are the same.