This is key. More is not better with trt.
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I am now in week 9-10 of the new TRT protocol (64mg SubQ injections with 30 gauge, 5/16" insulin syringes twice a week; 128mg Test C weekly).
I still occasionally have issues with getting restful sleep, but it is nowhere like it used to be. Tryptophan seems to help with the sleep issues. I also still have some trouble with anxiety, social anxiety, and feeling irritated, but it is no more than 25-50% of the time. Back acne has improved drastically since lowering dose. I am mellow (probably too mellow) most of the time.
Overall things are much better on this dose compared to the last dose, and WAY better than pre-TRT. TRT is definitely not a panacea, but it has had a significant improvement on my quality of life.
On a side note, since lowering my T dose and removing Arimidex from the protocol, My T Score/Bone Density has gone from 0.4 up to 0.8 in TWO MONTHS! (as measured on DexaScans) Arimidex really is toxic!!
Current blood tests for the 128mg Test C weekly protocol below (tested right before next injection):
|CHEMICAL NAME|CHEMICAL LEVEL|LAB REFERENCE RANGE
| ā | ā | ā | ā | ā |
|TOTAL TESTOSTERONE|794 ng/dL|264 - 916 ng/dL
|FREE TESTOSTERONE|22.2 pg/mL|9.3 ā 26.5 pg/mL
|ESTRADIOL|40.1 pg/mL|7.6 ā 42.6 pg/mL
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Imagine what would happen in years, thereās just no way to tell how itās going to affect an individual. Sure some might have little affect, but others more dramatic.
Dr. Rob Kominiarek sees menās dexa scans after years on AIās and bone loss is seen in just about all of them, some have osteoporosis do to taking 1-3mg per week after only several months.
If youāre a doctor and have the data and you chose to prescribe AIās, you are opening yourself up to lawsuits.
The only way you can ābalance estrogenā is allowing the body to do it naturally based on the increased levels of testosterone. Taking an AI prevents this process and what causes people issues.
You need to do more frequent injections. I felt up and down as well on twice a week and I know a ton of guys who felt the same. Daily is best, every other day if you canāt do daily. Try it for a few weeks and report back.
This is not always possible, compromised livers decrease clearance rate of E2 from years of poor lifestyle choices.
Some want to take the blue pill which is sad because the choices that lead to low T will lead them back here in the years to come with more health problems.
Change is different for some people.
Youād assume that the docs that I deal with see plenty of guys with liver issues, which I would expect, yet not a single one of them uses an AI. Not one. You keep viewing E2 as a bad thing that the body has to rid itself of. It simply isnāt the case whatsoever.
Unless youāre too fat or are an over-converter from T to E, then you might have issues with gynomastia and other high E2 side effects? Obviously having the lowest possible dose that puts you at a good range with no AI is optimal for TRT (in my opinion as I am not a doctor or researcher).
An AI might also be necessary if cycling (since its also short term), but that is off topic for this forum.
Its already a pain filling the tiny 30 gauge insulin syringes twice a week (takes 4-6 minutes each time), not to mention I donāt like poking myself (I am used to it now though).
Is it possible I will get better over the coming months? I could also try 3 times a week (MWF instead of current MTh), but 2 times a week seems to work best for my schedule.
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There are no E2 side effects. Fat people get gyno and other issues for totally different reasons.
I can load up a needle and inject in about 60 seconds. Having everything I need in one drawer makes things quick. If you hate injecting (which I still do but itās my only option right now), you can always try the transscrotal cream route.
So, to clarify, your T-Score went from .4 to .8 AFTER you stopped taking the AI?
Do you have sources for your information?
It takes so long for me to inject due to the size of the needle - Test C is a thick oil and drawing is what takes so long. I tried 20% compounded cream and it does not work for me - crashed my levels lower than baseline.
My T Score (Bone Density) went from 0.8 to 0.4 in 4 months while using 1mg of Adex per week. 2 months after stopping the AI, my T Score is back up to 0.8. Arimidex is nasty stuff.
Of course I do. Hundreds of pages of research and daily communication with over ten high level docs. Iāll bet you werenāt applying the cream on the scrotum. Iāll bet it wasnāt a 200mg/gram versabase cream using micronized testosterone either.
Are any of these sources publicly available?
I wasnāt applying it scrotally, but it was 200mg/g (using 2 clicks) with versabase. Not sure if it was micronized. Doesnāt applying the cream scrotally drastically increase DHT conversion?
0.8 to 0.4, and not -0.8 to - 0.4? Any T-score above -1 is normal. Seeing as the scan is performed on a variety of locations and it is averaged from that, you cannot actually draw any conclusion from those two tests and that short of a time frame. Iām not saying that the Arimidex isnāt toxic, Iām saying that you are drawing an unwarranted conclusion. I have a Z score of 1.2, and thatās after years of unchecked hyperparathyroid hyperplasia and low T.
Positive numbers, not negative numbers. The correlation between the T Score dropping on an AI, and then coming back up without the AI, simply substantiates lots of stuff I have read online (forum posts, studies, discussions with Dr, etc). I have done 4 dexascans in the last 6 months. Correlation doesnāt equal causation, but this anecdotal data point combined with others is fairly conclusive IMO.
You have a 5 times greater absorption through the scrotum and the DHT increase is a welcome addition. all the research is posted in our group and it would be extremely time-consuming for me to download all of them to upload them somewhere else and provide links. They are publicly available if you have a Facebook account or worst-case just create a dummy account. More importantly, I speak to dr. Nichols and dr. Serrano literally every day and they are constantly sharing new information with me. Then there are all the other doctors in the group which I am constantly messaging, asking questions, getting feedback, and bouncing ideas off of. They fill me in as to what they have changed with all of their patients protocols. The one thing in common as they have gotten everybody off of HCG as well as an AI. They have all confirmed that the scrotal application of the Versa base cream has been infinitely better than injections. They have literally nothing to gain by telling me this. Iām talking about over 10 doctors with thousands of patients among them. Iām also seeing more and more long-term injectors that have switched over to the cream and are simply raving about it.
I mostly have trouble with believing that fast of a rebound being accurate
I am now in month 5-6 of the new TRT protocol (64mg SubQ injections with 30 gauge, 5/16" insulin syringes twice a week; 128mg Test C weekly).
I still have issues with getting restful sleep (wake up once a night to pee, and feel groggy the first hour of getting up in the morning), but it is nowhere like it used to be. Tryptophan seems to help a bit with the sleep issues. I also still have occasional trouble with anxiety, social anxiety, and feeling irritated, but it is no more than 10-15% of the time. I am mellow (probably too mellow) most of the time.
Overall things are much better on this dose compared to the last dose, and WAY better than pre-TRT. TRT is definitely not a panacea, but it has had a significant improvement on my quality of life.
Doctor and I decided to go up to 140mg / week (70mg twice a week) for 5-6 months to see if there is any improvement. If not, I will return to 128mg / week.
Current blood tests for the 128mg Test C weekly protocol below (tested right before next injection):
Reported Date : Nov 27, 2019
Test : CBC With Differential/Platelet
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
WBC 8.2 x10E3/uL 3.4-10.8 Normal F 01
RBC 5.27 x10E6/uL 4.14-5.80 Normal F 01
Hemoglobin 15.4 g/dL 13.0-17.7 Normal F 01
Hematocrit 45.5 % 37.5-51.0 Normal F 01
MCV 86 fL 79-97 Normal F 01
MCH 29.2 pg 26.6-33.0 Normal F 01
MCHC 33.8 g/dL 31.5-35.7 Normal F 01
RDW 13.3 % 12.3-15.4 Normal F 01
Platelets 188 x10E3/uL 150-450 Normal F 01
Neutrophils 74 % Not Estab. F 01
Lymphs 19 % Not Estab. F 01
Monocytes 6 % Not Estab. F 01
Eos 1 % Not Estab. F 01
Basos 0 % Not Estab. F 01
Neutrophils (Absolute) 6.0 x10E3/uL 1.4-7.0 Normal F 01
Lymphs (Absolute) 1.6 x10E3/uL 0.7-3.1 Normal F 01
Monocytes(Absolute) 0.5 x10E3/uL 0.1-0.9 Normal F 01
Eos (Absolute) 0.1 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.4 Normal F 01
Baso (Absolute) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.2 Normal F 01
Immature Granulocytes 0 % Not Estab. F 01
Immature Grans (Abs) 0.0 x10E3/uL 0.0-0.1 Normal F 01
Test : Comp. Metabolic Panel (14)
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Glucose, Serum 84 mg/dL 65-99 Normal F 01
BUN 18 mg/dL 6-20 Normal F 01
Creatinine, Serum 1.10 mg/dL 0.76-1.27 Normal F 01
eGFR If NonAfricn Am 91 mL/min/1.73 >59 Normal F 01
eGFR If Africn Am 105 mL/min/1.73 >59 Normal F 01
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 16 9-20 Normal F 01
Sodium, Serum 139 mmol/L 134-144 Normal F 01
Potassium, Serum 4.5 mmol/L 3.5-5.2 Normal F 01
Chloride, Serum 100 mmol/L 96-106 Normal F 01
Carbon Dioxide, Total 24 mmol/L 20-29 Normal F 01
Calcium, Serum 9.4 mg/dL 8.7-10.2 Normal F 01
Protein, Total, Serum 7.2 g/dL 6.0-8.5 Normal F 01
Albumin, Serum 5.0 g/dL 3.5-5.5 Normal F 01
Globulin, Total 2.2 g/dL 1.5-4.5 Normal F 01
A/G Ratio 2.3 1.2-2.2 High F 01
Bilirubin, Total 0.8 mg/dL 0.0-1.2 Normal F 01
Alkaline Phosphatase, S 73 IU/L 39-117 Normal F 01
AST (SGOT) 23 IU/L 0-40 Normal F 01
ALT (SGPT) 38 IU/L 0-44 Normal F 01
Test : LIPID PANEL, STANDARD
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Cholesterol, Total 160 mg/dL 100-199 Normal F 01
Triglycerides 46 mg/dL 0-149 Normal F 01
HDL Cholesterol 38 mg/dL >39 Low F 01
VLDL Cholesterol Cal 9 mg/dL 5-40 Normal F 01
LDL Cholesterol Calc 113 mg/dL 0-99 High F 01
Test : TESTOSTERONE,FREE and TOTAL
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Testosterone, Serum 971 ng/dL 264-916 High F 01
Adult male reference interval is based on a population of
healthy nonobese males (BMI <30) between 19 and 39 years old.
Travison, et.al. JCEM 2017,102;1161-1173. PMID: 28324103.
Free Testosterone(Direct) 25.0 pg/mL 9.3-26.5 Normal F 02
Test : ESTRADIOL
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Estradiol 30.6 pg/mL 7.6-42.6 Normal F 01
Roche ECLIA methodology
Test : Prostate-Specific Ag, Serum
NAME RESULT REFERENCE INTERPRETATION STATUS(*) LAB
Prostate Specific Ag,
Serum
0.4 ng/mL 0.0-4.0 Normal F 01