22 Yr Old, Looking for Some Advice

Hey, I’m a 22 year old male(5,10 230 lbs at 23% bodyfat) who’s been lurking the forums for a while, but finally decided to post and see if I could get some help. I’ve been living with low sex drive since I was 16, and have been trying to find a way to fix it ever since. I have done a two superdrol cycles in highschool when I was 16-18(which was incredibly stupid) but I feel like that wasn’t the complete cause of my problems(since I was having some erection difficulties prior to that).

The summer before I took the superdrol, I had gained about 60 pounds naturally from overeating(went from 140 to 200 in a few months) in an attempt to get bigger to play football, and a lot of it was fat. This is when I first remember noticing my sex drive decreasing, as well as a slight pain in my left testicle when running (which I didn’t really pay attention to). Anyway, I have been to multiple endocronologists and urologists since I was 19, none of which who could help alleviate this problem. I am currently working with an anti-aging doctor who seems to know what hes doing(compared to the other doctors).

The anti aging doctor put me on .5mg arimidex twice a week, which worked better than clomid(in terms of sex drive and emotional stability) but the sex drive effects varied from day to day and I was having sore joints as well(which led me to believe I was overresponding to it). He just recently switched me to Chrysin 500mg twice daily, to see if it can lower estrogen but not nuke it like how arimidex was doing. I have only been on Chrysin for about 5 days now, but I have read online that its oral bioavailability is low, but my doctor seems to think it will work so I am going to give it a try.

The doc also thinks if I get my bodyfat down to a reasonable level(12-15%) then my estrogen problems could be fixed on their own, so I am currently carb cycling down hoping to steadily reach that goal in a few months without losing much strength or muscle.

I have most recently been suspecting that my low cholesterol could be the cause of my hormonal issues, since I just learned that most of these sex hormones are made from cholesterol.

EDIT:

age : 22
-height: 5’10"
-waist: 36"
-weight: 230
-Facial hair grows at a decent rate, can grow a full beard in probably a week and a half. I only need to shave facial hair every other day to have a clean shave. My body hair has been the same as far as I can remember. I have some chest hair, and a good amount of arm/leg hair. Armpit hair is there, but has not changed over the last few years as far as I know. Pubic hair is there but grows pretty slow.
-describe where you carry fat and how changed: I carry a lot of my fat around my hips and my chest area(had physician diagnosed pubertal gyno). I noticed that the arimidex has helped reduce the fat areas around my chest, along with my dieting, so I can’t really tell if its legit gyno or not(I should know when I am around 12% hopefully).
-Rx and OTC drugs, any hair loss drugs or prostate drugs ever

Past Rx Drugs:
Back in January 2010:
Dostinex Doctor prescribed for high prolactin(levels were at 20.8 ng/mL with a ref range of 0-15 ng/mL. No pituatary tumor found, and dostinex didn’t really cause a change in sex drive or anything at all. After one month of the dostinex my prolactin was down to 1.9, and I felt no different. 6 months later I retested and it was back up to 20.3.

August 2011-June 2012:
Clomid 50mg/3x week

June 2012- August 2012:
Arimidex .5mg/2x week

Current
OTC Supps:
Metagenics Wellness Essentials for Men Multivitamin 1 Packet Daily
Metagenics Vitamin D3 5000 iu 1x Daily
Ortho-Molecular Reacted Zinc 1x Daily
Ortho-Molecular Addren-All(for Adrenal Fatigue) 2 caps 2x Daily
NOW Foods C-1000 1x Daily
Nature’s Purest Chrysin 500 mg 2x Daily

-describe diet: Currently Carb cycling and taking it slow. In a 3500 calorie weekly deficit, based off my monitored maintenance level of 4200 calories.

  • I am doing 5/3/1 full body training right now, along with some Muay Thai that i just started two days a week on my off days. Also doing prowler sprints 4x a week to aid in bodyfat loss.
    -My testes ached before I went on clomid, and were also significantly more atrophied than they are now.
    -Before arimidex, morning wood has been scarce for the 2-3 years I wasn’t on anything. Wood would be once a week to once a month before arimidex. When using arimidex, I would get morning and nocturnal wood probably 2-3x a week depending on when I took the arimidex.

Saliva Test Done 2/02/2012 by ZRT labs:
Cortisol Morning(saliva): 3.5 ng/ml (Low) REF RANGE: 3.7-9.5 ng/ml
Cortisol Noon(saliva): 1.4 ng/ml REF RANGE: 1.2-3.0 ng/ml
Cortisol Evening(saliva): 1.8 ng/ml REF RANGE: 0.6-1.9 ng/ml
Cortisol Night(saliva): .7 ng/ml REF RANGE: 0.4-1.0 ng/ml

Here are some bloods that I got with the anti aging clinic:
All Labs from these guys are done with Quest Diagnostics

1/31/2012(Currently Running Clomid at 50mg Mon/Wed/Fri from my previous endo, which was good at raising test, but not successful in restoring my sex drive)

LIPID PANEL:

Cholesterol, Total: 109(LOW) mg/dL REF RANGE: 125-200 mg/dL
HDL: 41 mg/dL REF RANGE: > Or = 40mg/dL
LDL: 52 mg/dL REF RANGE: <130 mg/dL(calc)
Triglycerides: 80 mg/dL REF RANGE: <150 mg/dL
CHOL/HDLC Ratio: 2.7 REF RANGE: < OR = 5.0(calc)
Cardio CRP(R): 1.0 REF RANGE: 1.0-3.0 is average relative caridovasular risk

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL:

Glucose: 89 mg/dL REF RANGE: 65-99 mg/dL
Urea Nitrogen (BUN): 21 mg/dL REF RANGE: 7-25 mg/dL
Creatinine: .93 mg/dL REF RANGE: 0.60=1.35 mg/dL
Sodium: 138 mmol/L REF RANGE: 135-146 mnol/L
Potassium: 4.1 mmol/L REF RANGE: 3.5-5.3 mnol/L
Chloride: 104 mmol/L REF RANGE: 98-110 mnol/L
Carbon Dioxide: 25 mmol/L REF RANGE: 21-33 mnol/L
Calcium: 9.4 mg/dL REF RANGE: 8.6-10.3 mg/dL
Protein, Total: 7.0 g/dl REF RANGE: 6.2-8.3 g/dL
Albumin: 4.3 g/dl REF RANGE: 3.6-5.1 g/dL
Globulin: 2.7 g/dl REF RANGE: 2.1-3.7 g/dL(calc)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio: 1.6 REF RANGE: 1.0-2.1(calc)
Bilirubin, Total: .5 mg/dl REF RANGE: .2-1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase: 45 U/L REF RANGE: 40-115 U/L
AST: 23 U/L REF RANGE: 10-40 U/L
ALT: 58 U/L REF RANGE: 9-60 U/L
Hemoglobin Alc: 5.4 REF RANGE: <5.7% of total Hgb

Vitamin D, 25 OH, Total : 41 ng/mL REF RANGE: 30-100 ng/mL
Vitamin D, 25 OH, D3: 41 ng/mL
Vitamin D, 25 OH, D2: <4 ng/mL

TSH: 1.63 mIU/L REF RANGE: .40-4.5 mIU/L
T4, Free: 1.4 ng/dL REF RANGE: .8-1.8 ng/dL
T3, Free: 3.4 ng/dL REF RANGE: 2.3-4.2 pg/mL

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS: 1230(HIGH) ng/dL REF RANGE: 250-1100 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free: 89 pg/mL REF RANGE: 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable: 183 ng/dL REF RANGE: 110-575 ng/dL
SHBG: 77nmol/L(HIGH) REF RANGE: 10-50 nmol/L
Albumin, Serum: 4.5 g/dL REF RANGE: 3.6-5.1 g/dL
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive: 30(High) pg/mL REF RANGE: < Or = 29 pg/mL
DHT: 73 ng/dl REF RANGE: 16-79 ng/dL

CBC:
White Blood Cell Count: 5.8 Thousand/uL REF RANGE: 3.8-10.8
Red Blood Cell Count: 4.89 Million/uL REF RANGE: 4.2-5.8
Hemoglobin: 16.5 g/dL REF RANGE: 13.2-17.1
Hematocrit: 47.9 % REF RANGE: 38.5-50.0
MCV: 97.9 fL REF RANGE: 80-100
MCH: 33.8(HIGH) pg REF RANGE: 27-33
MCHC: 34.5 g/dL REF RANGE: 32-36
RDW: 13.9% REF RANGE: 11-15
Platelet Count: 234 Thousand/uL REF RANGE: 140-400
MPV: 9.9 fL REF RANGE: 7.5-11.5
Absolute Neutrophils: 2378 cells/uL REF RANGE: 1500-7800
Absolute Lymphocytes: 2651 cells/uL REF RANGE: 850-3900
Absolute Monocytes: 534 cells/uL REF RANGE: 200-950
Absolute Eosinophils: 238 cells/uL REF RANGE: 15-500
Absolute Basophils: 0 cells/uL REF RANGE: 0-200
Neutrophils: 41.0%
Lymphocytes: 45.7%
Monocytes: 9.2%
Eosinophils: 4.1%
Basophils: 0.0%
DHEA Sulfate: 306 mcg/dL REF RANGE: 110-510
Insulin: <2 uIU/mL REF RANGE: <17
LH: 32.2(HIGH) mIU/ml REF RANGE: 1.5-9.3
Prolactin: 16.6 ng/mL REF RANGE: 2.0-18.0
PSA, Total: .6 ng/mL REF RANGE: < Or = 4.0

2nd LAB TESTS Done 7/23/12(After being on Arimidex .5mg twice a week for about a month and a half. Blood tests were taken a day before my next Arimidex dose, where estrogen would be at its highest)

COMPREHENSIVE METABOLIC PANEL:

Glucose: 91 mg/dL REF RANGE: 65-99 mg/dL
Urea Nitrogen (BUN): 21 mg/dL REF RANGE: 7-25 mg/dL
Creatinine: .86 mg/dL REF RANGE: 0.60=1.35 mg/dL
Sodium: 140 mmol/L REF RANGE: 135-146 mnol/L
Potassium: 4.4 mmol/L REF RANGE: 3.5-5.3 mnol/L
Chloride: 106 mmol/L REF RANGE: 98-110 mnol/L
Carbon Dioxide: 26 mmol/L REF RANGE: 21-33 mnol/L
Calcium: 9.5 mg/dL REF RANGE: 8.6-10.3 mg/dL
Protein, Total: 6.8 g/dl REF RANGE: 6.2-8.3 g/dL
Albumin: 4.4 g/dl REF RANGE: 3.6-5.1 g/dL
Globulin: 2.4 g/dl REF RANGE: 2.1-3.7 g/dL(calc)
Albumin/Globulin Ratio: 1.8 REF RANGE: 1.0-2.1(calc)
Bilirubin, Total: .7 mg/dl REF RANGE: .2-1.2 mg/dL
Alkaline Phosphatase: 66 U/L REF RANGE: 40-115 U/L
AST: 20 U/L REF RANGE: 10-40 U/L
ALT: 33 U/L REF RANGE: 9-60 U/L
Hemoglobin Alc: 5.4 REF RANGE: <5.7% of total Hgb

Testosterone, Total, LC/MS/MS: 747 ng/dL REF RANGE: 250-1100 ng/dL
Testosterone, Free: 79.2 pg/mL REF RANGE: 46.0-224.0 pg/mL
Testosterone, Bioavailable: 162.9 ng/dL REF RANGE: 110-575 ng/dL
SHBG: 47nmol/L(HIGH) REF RANGE: 10-50 nmol/L
Albumin, Serum: 4.5 g/dL REF RANGE: 3.6-5.1 g/dL
Estradiol, Ultrasensitive: 11 pg/mL REF RANGE: < Or = 29 pg/mL
DHT: 41 ng/dl REF RANGE: 16-79 ng/dL

CBC:
White Blood Cell Count: 3.8 Thousand/uL REF RANGE: 3.8-10.8
Red Blood Cell Count: 4.60 Million/uL REF RANGE: 4.2-5.8
Hemoglobin: 15.5 g/dL REF RANGE: 13.2-17.1
Hematocrit: 45.4 % REF RANGE: 38.5-50.0
MCV: 98.8 fL REF RANGE: 80-100
MCH: 33.7(HIGH) pg REF RANGE: 27-33
MCHC: 34.1 g/dL REF RANGE: 32-36
RDW: 15.1%(HIGH) REF RANGE: 11-15
Platelet Count: 184 Thousand/uL REF RANGE: 140-400
MPV: 11.1 fL REF RANGE: 7.5-11.5
Absolute Neutrophils: 1649 cells/uL REF RANGE: 1500-7800
Absolute Lymphocytes: 1600 cells/uL REF RANGE: 850-3900
Absolute Monocytes: 395 cells/uL REF RANGE: 200-950
Absolute Eosinophils: 144 cells/uL REF RANGE: 15-500
Absolute Basophils: 11 cells/uL REF RANGE: 0-200
Neutrophils: 43.4%
Lymphocytes: 42.1%
Monocytes: 10.4%
Eosinophils: 3.8%
Basophils: 0.3%

DHEA Sulfate: 281 mcg/dL REF RANGE: 110-510
PSA, Total: .6 ng/mL REF RANGE: < Or = 4.0

Hoping some vets can chime in and give me some feedback

Thanks guys

You are getting the wrong E2 test. You do not want ultrasensitive–you want the sensitive male assay. 4021x is the code from Quest.

You need to go back and add the lab ranges to all your bloodwork to help us out.

Alright, I updated the post with the ranges and some additional info. I don’t have any recent e2 labs for you right now, but I have some e2 labs I took in the past when I was on Dostinex, not sure if it will help.

My labs for Feb 25, 2010 after a month on Dostinex were:

Testosterone, Total: 475(241-827) ng/dL
E2: 35(8-43) pg/mL
SHBG: 14(10-60) nmol/L
Prolactin: 1.9(4.0-15.0) ng/mL LOW

The month prior to that(Jan 8, 2010) when I was on absolutely nothing my bloods were:

Testosterone, Total: 475(241-827) ng/dL
LH: 6.9(1.7-8.6) mIU/mL
Sensitive TSH: 2.41(0.27-4.20) uIU/m
Free T4: 1.5(0.9-1.7) ng/dL
Prolactin: 20.7(4.0-15.0) ng/mL HIGH

There were no E2 or SHBG labs in the previous month’s test but as far as I can tell, dostinex only lowered prolactin and didn’t do anything for my total testosterone

I’m not surprised the dostinex only lowered your prolactin and not the TT (in 2010) becuase you seem to be getting adequate pituitary output (LH) from the pituitary despite the high prolactin. Usually in the case of high prolactin, you see low LH due to the prolactin suppressing it (I suppose). Your T response actually looks good from the pituitary request.

What I do notice is that even when your T is high, your Bio/Free T is not very good due to the high SHBG eating up all your T and rendering it useless. This seems to correlate with low coritsol issues, high E2, or poor liver clearance (or a combination of them).

Have you ever taken a liver support supplement (milk thistle, liv42, etc.)? It may be worth a try. That combined with your arimidex may help lower the SHBG. I would look at this as the cause if I were you, and read up all I could on SHBG and how to lower it. If these two options don’t work, look at cortisol next (seems to be supported by your low cortisol response on saliva test).

I’m curious, you said in your OP that you took Dostinex and got prolactin down and a certain amount of time later, it was back in the 20’s. Was that after discontinuing the dostinex, I presume? Or were you still on it when it rose sharply?

Also, does your testicle still ache? Have you ever done a self-exam for testicular cancer? Google how to perform a self exam if not. Likely a long shot, but that has been the problem for some guys.

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I have used a liver support supplement(LiverCare, U.S. ver of Liv52) in the past, but not when on arimidex. I still have some lying around and I’ll add it in and see if anything changes. As far as arimidex goes though, my doc has decided to move me to the herbal chrysin, and I only have three .5 mg pills of arimidex left so I wont really be able to test out the Arimidex+LiverCare combo.

As far as cortisol goes, I have been taking that Addren-all supplement in the morning and afternoon, and I noticed my midday yawns are pretty much completely gone and my energy levels are better. I am going to have another Blood/Saliva test before I visit my doctor again in November to see where things are at with the Chrysin instead of Arimidex.

I also didn’t mention in my previous posts that I used a lot of ECA stacks during highschool sports, and even after for lifting, which could have also contributed to my adrenal issues. I don’t touch stimulants anymore. I read that restoring adrenals may take several months as well, so maybe things will improve if I continue taking the Addren-All supplement.

My testicles only ached before I started taking clomid. It was actually only my left testicle that ached, and that was the same one that was atrophied after using superdrol. My right testicle didnt really seem to have changed much, except for the scrotum getting very tight. Clomid temporarily increased my testicular size, and after switching to arimidex my testicles decreased in size again but not to where they were before starting clomid. My scrotum has actually never really returned to normal after doing the superdrol. Before, I remember my testicles being very plump and easy to to examine. Now the scrotum is really shriveled and tight, even after the clomid treatment.

I do not really know if there’s much beyond a testicle exam besides checking for lumps(I haven’t found any) and such but because my testicles change size on a daily basis, I figured that it was due to the atrophy from my hormones and no real physical ailment. I have noticed though I have a pronounced vein running down the middle of my scrotum, between my testes but leaning more on the right side(possible varicocele?). I also noticed that there is a stringy connection between the mid shaft and my right testicle, but only sometimes with my left testicle(usually when it is bigger).

For SHBG, do you think I should try something like nettle root to see the temporary effects it has on my symptoms? Its my understanding that nettle root is only a temporary solution but if it relieves my problems then I will at least know that SHBG is the main cause.

Also do you think my cholesterol levels are of much concern? They were low on my initial blood test.

I don’t think the ECA stack is playing a role here, but it is good that you are still supporting your adrenals. Be sure to get plenty of rest, eat a good diet, and avoid stressors if possible. Hard to do nowadays.

YOu may want to look more into the varioccle issue. A scan of some of the threads here and you will see more than one instance of guys with varioccle having low T issues as well.

Nothing wrong with trying the nettle root IMO. Give it a shot.

CHOL is almost irrelevant. NOt a lot you can do to actually raise it except eating bacon lol. But I’m actually surprised the lab has a lower end cutoff for CHOL. With the influence these statin makers have on the labs nowadays, I have seen many labs that don’t even have a bottom line for CHOL (=0!!!)…I wouldn’t dwell on that too much if I were you.