I liked aspects of both candidates tonight: Romney was absolutely the superior debater. He took the opportunities that were presented and was very polished in his style and approach. On the other hand, Obama fell into the traps that were expected-long winded, academia centric, and he actually did not take advantage of opportunities that arose at all. On the other hand, I liked the way in which Obama laid out his plans better than I did Romney (I am a sucker for the professorial approach). I still feel unclear on what Romney’s plans are after this debate, which I do not like.
All things considered, Romney is the clear winner tonight. His approach and style will resonate more with the average voter more than a professorial explanation of policy. It will be interesting to see how polls move in response to this-I would expect (in the short term) to see a bump for Romney. This does give momentum to his campaign, which is the best that you could expect to see coming out of this debate if you are pro-Romney.
As an aside, I would love to hear the inner dialogue going on in the heads of the candidates during debates lol…[/quote]
Your link does not show that there are tax breaks awarded for outsourcing. Romney was correct. What is does try to explain is that the US tax code allows deductions for taxes that are paid overseas so we don’t get double taxed.
ie. The United States is the only country in the world that charges it’s citizens income tax on money they earn overseas. But if you are working in another country and that country is assessing you income tax on the money you earn there then you can deduct that tax from your federal tax.
Technically, for a business I would argue it does save you money by allowing you to take advantage of the other savings you can incur by moving operations overseas by removing a potential penalty, at least in forms of the effective tax rate you pay as a company. It does appear that bills have been proposed and discussed in Congress that discuss the same issue Obama is now discussing.
I am not trying to open a whole new can of worms here-Romney’s response undoubtedly earned him points tonight. My only point is that there is absolutely currently a strong incentive to move operations out of the US and that there can subsequently be steps taken to reverse this trend and simultaneously raise revenue by introducing penalties or reducing breaks.[/quote]
No offense, and this is the last time I’ll respond to this topic in this thread, but Romney’s response to Obama’s bullshit, applies to your post. Except I’ve been doing this for 7 years after studying it for 4 and getting a professional license in the field.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I think Ryan will hammer Biden fer sher. One great thing about this debate compared to the ones with McCain is that there actually was SOME difference. Though Romney did a bit of it, ol Johnny spent most of his time trying to out spend and out government Obama.[/quote]
Don’t underestimate Joe Biden’s debating skills. I know he can be a loose cannon on the campaign trail but that guy is seasoned and been through this before. Paul Ryan on the other hand is young and inexperienced. And while Ryan has a good command of the facts all Biden has to do is show a little personality and deflect, deflect, deflect. Also, Biden will be ready thinking that he must bring the team back.
In short Biden is not an idiot don’t assume he’s going to lose big to Ryan.[/quote]
I wouldn’t underestimate Biden either but you are way wrong on Ryan being inexperienced. Have you seen his debate with Obama and Biden on the budget? Ryan had both of them looking just as stuttering and perplexed as Obama looked tonight debating Romney. It’s cut in this video but at the end of it Obama had a bout of stuttering that sounded just like he was Elmer Fudd!
Another thing that might make the Ryan Biden debate on October eleventh very interesting is the Jordan muslim brotherhood has called for a massive wave of protests in Jordan to topple King Hussein of Jordan starting on October tenth. So the Obama foreign policy disaster will be coming home to roost the day before the debate.
“according to an internal memorandum leaked to the Al-Hayat newspaper, the MB has already set a date for mass demonstrations against the King to start on Oct. 10 and ordered its members to go to work at once to mobilize at least 50,000 demonstrators for daily protests against the king and the royal family until he bows to their will.”
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m still pretty far behind, but did Obama just ask for the moderator to move on from the economy and then fucking blame bush and try and call himself Clinton?
wow[/quote]
Simple economics (Started in Bush’s Admin.) Recession less tax revenue Because of workers losing Job) (More social Serves) (still maintaining 2 UNFUNDED wars) (Still maintaining Bush’s TEMPORARY tax cuts) = HUGE DEFICITS
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
I’m still pretty far behind, but did Obama just ask for the moderator to move on from the economy and then fucking blame bush and try and call himself Clinton?
wow[/quote]
Simple economics (Started in Bush’s Admin.) Recession less tax revenue Because of workers losing Job) (More social Serves) (still maintaining 2 UNFUNDED wars) (Still maintaining Bush’s TEMPORARY tax cuts) = HUGE DEFICITS[/quote]
And after 4 years, it is still the last guys fault the current guy didn’t fix it?
So I guess that means Clinton’s success can be attributed to Bush Sr’s term?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
was it a lie or not , Did Romney propose a 5 trillion tax cut or not , or does it even matter ? Is it possible to beat a liar in a debate ?[/quote]
Yes, romney beat obama last night, so it is possible to beat a liar in a debate.
“Bankers and lobbyists won’t be part of my cabinet.” This coming from the guy who appoint Larry fucking Summers…
Do me a favor, add up the revenues under Clinton and his often opined about economic successes, and then add them up for the years under Bush and all is awfulness brought on from his tax cuts. Which is higher?
Romney very composed. Liked how he’s starting to allude to how China and OPEC are gently screwing us. [/quote]That was a great line. Especially if I could believe it would actually happen. “I will not fund anything that is not worth borrowing money from China to pay for.” THAT I think makes sense to a substantial number of folks.
My only point is that there is absolutely currently a strong incentive to move operations out of the US and that there can subsequently be steps taken to reverse this trend and simultaneously raise revenue by introducing penalties or reducing breaks.[/quote]
…or we could reduce labor costs so that it is fiscally possible to keep, mainly, manufacturing jobs in the U.S. That won’t happen though, not with labor union lobbyist bending ears in DC.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
was it a lie or not , Did Romney propose a 5 trillion tax cut or not , or does it even matter ? Is it possible to beat a liar in a debate ?[/quote]
"Taxes
At the outset of the debate, President Barack Obama and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney tangled over taxes. Romney objected to the president’s claim that his tax cuts would cost $5 trillion.
ROMNEY: Let me repeat what I said, I’m not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. That’s not my plan. My plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit.
What is Romney’s plan?
He has proposed making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all income levels – then cutting all rates by an additional 20 percent. He would also repeal the alternative minimum tax and permanently repeal the estate tax.
The non-partisan Tax Policy Center concluded that Romney’s tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years.
Romney said – once again tonight – that his plan would be paid for by closing loopholes in the tax code and by getting rid of some tax deductions and credits. But he has repeatedly declined to say which deductions he’d eliminate, saying he’d work with Congress to make those decisions."
Yes, it could be temporary or it could shift the election in Romney’s favor just as the first Reagan/Carter debates did. Reagan trailed by 6-8 pts. going into the first debate according to Gallup. After the debate he took the lead and held it to election day.
[/quote]
Glad to see that you have changed how you characterize the Carter-Reagan debate. Of course all of the other polls (other than a SINGLE gallup poll) showed Reagan leading in the run up to their debate.
I am also curious why you keep referring to debates (plural)… Care to explain?
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
was it a lie or not , Did Romney propose a 5 trillion tax cut or not , or does it even matter ? Is it possible to beat a liar in a debate ?[/quote]
"Taxes
At the outset of the debate, President Barack Obama and Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney tangled over taxes. Romney objected to the president’s claim that his tax cuts would cost $5 trillion.
ROMNEY: Let me repeat what I said, I’m not in favor of a $5 trillion tax cut. That’s not my plan. My plan is not to put in place any tax cut that will add to the deficit.
What is Romney’s plan?
He has proposed making the Bush tax cuts permanent for all income levels – then cutting all rates by an additional 20 percent. He would also repeal the alternative minimum tax and permanently repeal the estate tax.
The non-partisan Tax Policy Center concluded that Romney’s tax plan would cost $4.8 trillion over 10 years.
Romney said – once again tonight – that his plan would be paid for by closing loopholes in the tax code and by getting rid of some tax deductions and credits. But he has repeatedly declined to say which deductions he’d eliminate, saying he’d work with Congress to make those decisions."
[/quote]
The most egregious dissembling of the night, in my opinion.
He still absolutely won the debate, and he still deserves to be called the winner. Obama achieved this odd combination of aloofness and exasperation. He was remarkably passive. He frankly doesn’t deserve another term if he can’t put some minimal kind of effort into this whole thing. He doesn’t even seem to know or care as much about his own reelection as Bill Clinton does.
My only point is that there is absolutely currently a strong incentive to move operations out of the US and that there can subsequently be steps taken to reverse this trend and simultaneously raise revenue by introducing penalties or reducing breaks.[/quote]
…or we could reduce labor costs so that it is fiscally possible to keep, mainly, manufacturing jobs in the U.S. That won’t happen though, not with labor union lobbyist bending ears in DC. [/quote]
I responded to CornSprint in the “taxes” thread as it is as close to a topic as I could figure on the subject.
I agree with most of what you say here as well, but really should take this conversation to a different thread.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I think Ryan will hammer Biden fer sher. One great thing about this debate compared to the ones with McCain is that there actually was SOME difference. Though Romney did a bit of it, ol Johnny spent most of his time trying to out spend and out government Obama.[/quote]
Don’t underestimate Joe Biden’s debating skills. I know he can be a loose cannon on the campaign trail but that guy is seasoned and been through this before. Paul Ryan on the other hand is young and inexperienced. And while Ryan has a good command of the facts all Biden has to do is show a little personality and deflect, deflect, deflect. Also, Biden will be ready thinking that he must bring the team back.
In short Biden is not an idiot don’t assume he’s going to lose big to Ryan.[/quote]
I wouldn’t underestimate Biden either but you are way wrong on Ryan being inexperienced. Have you seen his debate with Obama and Biden on the budget? Ryan had both of them looking just as stuttering and perplexed as Obama looked tonight debating Romney. It’s cut in this video but at the end of it Obama had a bout of stuttering that sounded just like he was Elmer Fudd!
Another thing that might make the Ryan Biden debate on October eleventh very interesting is the Jordan muslim brotherhood has called for a massive wave of protests in Jordan to topple King Hussein of Jordan starting on October tenth. So the Obama foreign policy disaster will be coming home to roost the day before the debate.
“according to an internal memorandum leaked to the Al-Hayat newspaper, the MB has already set a date for mass demonstrations against the King to start on Oct. 10 and ordered its members to go to work at once to mobilize at least 50,000 demonstrators for daily protests against the king and the royal family until he bows to their will.”[/quote]
The point I was trying to make was NOT that Ryan is unable to debate in an open forum his stance on various positions. I’ve seen that clip before he was very good. But that is NOT a traditional debate format. And Biden has been there before, when he ran for President and again debating Palin. Ryan has no experience in such a format. I have no qualms about predicting that Ryan will hold his own. My main point is that those who expect a Ryan knock out will be disappointed because I don’t think Biden will be as unsuccessful as his leader
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
was it a lie or not , Did Romney propose a 5 trillion tax cut or not , or does it even matter ? Is it possible to beat a liar in a debate ?[/quote]
Sure it is, I slap you around this message board all the time.