God, 50-44 midway through the third in ORL-ATL with the horrid local announcers of NBA TV… I think I’m ready for the second round to start
Remember when Marvin Williams was a #1 overall pick?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
And the fact that you think ref favoritism in no way contributed to OKC being in the position to hit those shots shows that you might need to take your tin hat off first before you start directing others. And, I posed the “not watching games” as a question, not a statement. That’s why it started with an “if”. Bottom line is you can believe what you want, but the proof is/was LITERALLY televised for the world to see, and the people here commenting on it aren’t the only people who’ve noticed. Not saying Denver would’ve won the series, but they certainly would’ve put up a much better fight if the games were called fair. And, it’s safe to say that having the refs consistently fuck you out of games takes some fight out of you.[/quote]
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I have read some of your posts about this playoff series and I felt compelled to reply.
Denver lost this series 4-1 because OKC was the better team. OKC killed Denver in rebounding and foul shooting percentage, which are two things the players can control. Missed free throws are what cost Denver game one, not some missed goal-tending call that occurred with 1:04 left on the clock. Game two, Denver got dismantled. Officiating had dick to do with it.
Games 3 and 4 I didn’t see, just saw stats and highlights.
Game 5, Denver had a 9 point lead with two positions to push the lead to 11 (or 12) with about 3 minutes to go. And it was the officiating that cost them the game? Really? How about Denver close out a game? Make some free throws (which the didn’t down the stretch) and play some defense.
The over and back call that was over ruled was actually reviewed so I’m not sure what you can complain about. It’s irrelevant anyway, as it was one of many plays in the game. It certainly didn’t decide the outcome.
Frankly, I would expect more out of you White Flash than to complain about officiating. You know better than I do that there is shit players can do about officiating, but making fucking free-throws, hustling after rebounds, playing defense, are things that can be controlled. Look at the stats for the series, these facets of the game I just mentioned were dominated by OKC. That’s why they won the series.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Remember when Marvin Williams was a #1 overall pick?[/quote]
2nd pick in the draft behind Bogut, ahead of two randoms named Deron Williams and Chris Paul. Wonder what happened to those two? In all seriousness, M Williams was looked at as a potentially more explosive Jamal Mashburn at the time. Every team in the league would’ve made that pick. Thinking about it, Atlanta has made some atrocious high draft picks [Shelden Williams, Marvin, trading Gasol at 3 to Memphis, etc…] aside from Horford, but they do pretty well mid first round. Actually, calling Marvin Williams an atrocious pick is unfair, 'cause when he’s healthy and getting minutes he’s fairly productive, he just can’t put it all together.
Lakers look balanced, Hornets look shook and Chris Paul looks tired and like expectations are getting to him. Aside from ref induced shennanigans, this has been as good a first round as I can remember.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
And the fact that you think ref favoritism in no way contributed to OKC being in the position to hit those shots shows that you might need to take your tin hat off first before you start directing others. And, I posed the “not watching games” as a question, not a statement. That’s why it started with an “if”. Bottom line is you can believe what you want, but the proof is/was LITERALLY televised for the world to see, and the people here commenting on it aren’t the only people who’ve noticed. Not saying Denver would’ve won the series, but they certainly would’ve put up a much better fight if the games were called fair. And, it’s safe to say that having the refs consistently fuck you out of games takes some fight out of you.[/quote]
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I have read some of your posts about this playoff series and I felt compelled to reply.
Denver lost this series 4-1 because OKC was the better team. OKC killed Denver in rebounding and foul shooting percentage, which are two things the players can control. Missed free throws are what cost Denver game one, not some missed goal-tending call that occurred with 1:04 left on the clock. Game two, Denver got dismantled. Officiating had dick to do with it.
Games 3 and 4 I didn’t see, just saw stats and highlights.
Game 5, Denver had a 9 point lead with two positions to push the lead to 11 (or 12) with about 3 minutes to go. And it was the officiating that cost them the game? Really? How about Denver close out a game? Make some free throws (which the didn’t down the stretch) and play some defense.
The over and back call that was over ruled was actually reviewed so I’m not sure what you can complain about. It’s irrelevant anyway, as it was one of many plays in the game. It certainly didn’t decide the outcome.
Frankly, I would expect more out of you White Flash than to complain about officiating. You know better than I do that there is shit players can do about officiating, but making fucking free-throws, hustling after rebounds, playing defense, are things that can be controlled. Look at the stats for the series, these facets of the game I just mentioned were dominated by OKC. That’s why they won the series.
[/quote]
Sigh… Why don’t you read everything I wrote before making a blanket response to that one post? A lot of Denvers problem was Denver. I admitted that. But, having to deal with clearly lopsided officiating that hands out points to the opposition, takes points from you and turns a blind eye so the opposition gets away with whatever they want makes winning a bit harder.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Remember when Marvin Williams was a #1 overall pick?[/quote]
2nd pick in the draft behind Bogut, ahead of two randoms named Deron Williams and Chris Paul. Wonder what happened to those two? In all seriousness, M Williams was looked at as a potentially more explosive Jamal Mashburn at the time. Every team in the league would’ve made that pick. Thinking about it, Atlanta has made some atrocious high draft picks [Shelden Williams, Marvin, trading Gasol at 3 to Memphis, etc…] aside from Horford, but they do pretty well mid first round. Actually, calling Marvin Williams an atrocious pick is unfair, 'cause when he’s healthy and getting minutes he’s fairly productive, he just can’t put it all together.[/quote]
Whoops forgot about Bogut, yeah. If the Hawks had CP3 running pick and rolls (or pick and pops) with Horford they would be a contender. I always thought something was off with Marvin…I just didn’t see the athleticism everyone else seemed to (not trying to brag, I’ve been wrong about plenty of players…Joakim Noah for one)
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Remember when Marvin Williams was a #1 overall pick?[/quote]
2nd pick in the draft behind Bogut, ahead of two randoms named Deron Williams and Chris Paul. Wonder what happened to those two? In all seriousness, M Williams was looked at as a potentially more explosive Jamal Mashburn at the time. Every team in the league would’ve made that pick. Thinking about it, Atlanta has made some atrocious high draft picks [Shelden Williams, Marvin, trading Gasol at 3 to Memphis, etc…] aside from Horford, but they do pretty well mid first round. Actually, calling Marvin Williams an atrocious pick is unfair, 'cause when he’s healthy and getting minutes he’s fairly productive, he just can’t put it all together.[/quote]
Whoops forgot about Bogut, yeah. If the Hawks had CP3 running pick and rolls (or pick and pops) with Horford they would be a contender. I always thought something was off with Marvin…I just didn’t see the athleticism everyone else seemed to (not trying to brag, I’ve been wrong about plenty of players…Joakim Noah for one)[/quote]
I agree on the athleticism thing. The “more explosive Mashburn” was the consensus at the time, not my take on him. If I remember right, he and Bogut posted the same [or close] verticals at the combine, and neither were impressive in an absolute sense. Also, if I remember right both D. Williams and Paul weren’t looked at as sure things. I guess that had to be the case or they’d be playing with the Bucks and Hawks, respectively. I remember that being thought of as a weak draft, with Williams not being athletic enough and Paul being too small. It’s kinda funny to look back at the drafts over the years and see how they’d shape up if we knew then what’s known now.
BTW WhiteFlash, lost in our argument, I forgot to mention I have relatives near POR and my first ever NBA game in person was a Blazers game in the Pippen-Sabonis era when my Aunt hooked me up w/ 2nd round seats. Good times.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Remember when Marvin Williams was a #1 overall pick?[/quote]
2nd pick in the draft behind Bogut, ahead of two randoms named Deron Williams and Chris Paul. Wonder what happened to those two? In all seriousness, M Williams was looked at as a potentially more explosive Jamal Mashburn at the time. Every team in the league would’ve made that pick. Thinking about it, Atlanta has made some atrocious high draft picks [Shelden Williams, Marvin, trading Gasol at 3 to Memphis, etc…] aside from Horford, but they do pretty well mid first round. Actually, calling Marvin Williams an atrocious pick is unfair, 'cause when he’s healthy and getting minutes he’s fairly productive, he just can’t put it all together.[/quote]
Whoops forgot about Bogut, yeah. If the Hawks had CP3 running pick and rolls (or pick and pops) with Horford they would be a contender. I always thought something was off with Marvin…I just didn’t see the athleticism everyone else seemed to (not trying to brag, I’ve been wrong about plenty of players…Joakim Noah for one)[/quote]
I agree on the athleticism thing. The “more explosive Mashburn” was the consensus at the time, not my take on him. If I remember right, he and Bogut posted the same [or close] verticals at the combine, and neither were impressive in an absolute sense. Also, if I remember right both D. Williams and Paul weren’t looked at as sure things. I guess that had to be the case or they’d be playing with the Bucks and Hawks, respectively. I remember that being thought of as a weak draft, with Williams not being athletic enough and Paul being too small. It’s kinda funny to look back at the drafts over the years and see how they’d shape up if we knew then what’s known now.[/quote]
Wasn’t there concern over Paul being able to hit NBA 3s as well? Draft isn’t my specialty…I pay more attention some years than others.
I just looked up that draft though (2005)… I literally bellowed with laughter when I saw the Clips took Yaroslav Korolev 12th overall (ahead of a lot of good players). Ironically that was an incredibly deep draft… Granger 17th, Jarret Jack 22, David Lee 30, Brandon Bass 33, CJ Miles 34, Monta Ellis 40th (!), Blatche 49th, Gortat 57th and lots of other guys who’ve gotten decent run as well
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Dustin wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
And the fact that you think ref favoritism in no way contributed to OKC being in the position to hit those shots shows that you might need to take your tin hat off first before you start directing others. And, I posed the “not watching games” as a question, not a statement. That’s why it started with an “if”. Bottom line is you can believe what you want, but the proof is/was LITERALLY televised for the world to see, and the people here commenting on it aren’t the only people who’ve noticed. Not saying Denver would’ve won the series, but they certainly would’ve put up a much better fight if the games were called fair. And, it’s safe to say that having the refs consistently fuck you out of games takes some fight out of you.[/quote]
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I have read some of your posts about this playoff series and I felt compelled to reply.
Denver lost this series 4-1 because OKC was the better team. OKC killed Denver in rebounding and foul shooting percentage, which are two things the players can control. Missed free throws are what cost Denver game one, not some missed goal-tending call that occurred with 1:04 left on the clock. Game two, Denver got dismantled. Officiating had dick to do with it.
Games 3 and 4 I didn’t see, just saw stats and highlights.
Game 5, Denver had a 9 point lead with two positions to push the lead to 11 (or 12) with about 3 minutes to go. And it was the officiating that cost them the game? Really? How about Denver close out a game? Make some free throws (which the didn’t down the stretch) and play some defense.
The over and back call that was over ruled was actually reviewed so I’m not sure what you can complain about. It’s irrelevant anyway, as it was one of many plays in the game. It certainly didn’t decide the outcome.
Frankly, I would expect more out of you White Flash than to complain about officiating. You know better than I do that there is shit players can do about officiating, but making fucking free-throws, hustling after rebounds, playing defense, are things that can be controlled. Look at the stats for the series, these facets of the game I just mentioned were dominated by OKC. That’s why they won the series.
[/quote]
Sigh… Why don’t you read everything I wrote before making a blanket response to that one post? A lot of Denvers problem was Denver. I admitted that. But, having to deal with clearly lopsided officiating that hands out points to the opposition, takes points from you and turns a blind eye so the opposition gets away with whatever they want makes winning a bit harder.[/quote]
Well, you made a handful of posts complaining about the officiating and I didn’t feel the need to address ever single post. I was attempting to address some of your main points that you had made regarding the series.
That’s good that you admit Denver’s problems were their own doing. And no, the officiating was not clearly lopsided. What does officiating have to do with Denver missing free throws, getting out rebounded, missing shots at key points down the stretch? Even if the officiating was “clearly lopsided” as you claim, a few extra made free throws in game one and five and we’re probably looking at a seven game series.
No offense, as I normally agree with what you have to say, but I just find it disappointing that someone as knowledgable as you about basketball wants to spend a handful of posts complaining about officiating when clearly the better team won the series.
Blazers killin it in the 4th quarter again, I really hope they force a game 7.
Maybe I jinxed it, 6 point game 45s to go, need some Rose Garden magic!
[quote]red04 wrote:
Blazers killin it in the 4th quarter again, I really hope they force a game 7.[/quote]
Mavs 0 free throws in the 4th quarter, Blazers 12. Dirk and 1 called a charge. Refs doing everything they can to stretch this to 7 games, but Dirk and Terry having none of that, both are shooting lights out.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
BTW WhiteFlash, lost in our argument, I forgot to mention I have relatives near POR and my first ever NBA game in person was a Blazers game in the Pippen-Sabonis era when my Aunt hooked me up w/ 2nd round seats. Good times.[/quote]
The only other town that even comes close to the basketball fever in Portland is San Antonio. People here go apeshit for the Blazers. It’s actually kind of cool, 'cause they’re not fare weather fans here. They really love the team. Apperantly the town goes into a funk every year when the team loses in the playoffs.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Dustin wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
And the fact that you think ref favoritism in no way contributed to OKC being in the position to hit those shots shows that you might need to take your tin hat off first before you start directing others. And, I posed the “not watching games” as a question, not a statement. That’s why it started with an “if”. Bottom line is you can believe what you want, but the proof is/was LITERALLY televised for the world to see, and the people here commenting on it aren’t the only people who’ve noticed. Not saying Denver would’ve won the series, but they certainly would’ve put up a much better fight if the games were called fair. And, it’s safe to say that having the refs consistently fuck you out of games takes some fight out of you.[/quote]
I know this wasn’t directed at me, but I have read some of your posts about this playoff series and I felt compelled to reply.
Denver lost this series 4-1 because OKC was the better team. OKC killed Denver in rebounding and foul shooting percentage, which are two things the players can control. Missed free throws are what cost Denver game one, not some missed goal-tending call that occurred with 1:04 left on the clock. Game two, Denver got dismantled. Officiating had dick to do with it.
Games 3 and 4 I didn’t see, just saw stats and highlights.
Game 5, Denver had a 9 point lead with two positions to push the lead to 11 (or 12) with about 3 minutes to go. And it was the officiating that cost them the game? Really? How about Denver close out a game? Make some free throws (which the didn’t down the stretch) and play some defense.
The over and back call that was over ruled was actually reviewed so I’m not sure what you can complain about. It’s irrelevant anyway, as it was one of many plays in the game. It certainly didn’t decide the outcome.
Frankly, I would expect more out of you White Flash than to complain about officiating. You know better than I do that there is shit players can do about officiating, but making fucking free-throws, hustling after rebounds, playing defense, are things that can be controlled. Look at the stats for the series, these facets of the game I just mentioned were dominated by OKC. That’s why they won the series.
[/quote]
Sigh… Why don’t you read everything I wrote before making a blanket response to that one post? A lot of Denvers problem was Denver. I admitted that. But, having to deal with clearly lopsided officiating that hands out points to the opposition, takes points from you and turns a blind eye so the opposition gets away with whatever they want makes winning a bit harder.[/quote]
Well, you made a handful of posts complaining about the officiating and I didn’t feel the need to address ever single post. I was attempting to address some of your main points that you had made regarding the series.
That’s good that you admit Denver’s problems were their own doing. And no, the officiating was not clearly lopsided. What does officiating have to do with Denver missing free throws, getting out rebounded, missing shots at key points down the stretch? Even if the officiating was “clearly lopsided” as you claim, a few extra made free throws in game one and five and we’re probably looking at a seven game series.
No offense, as I normally agree with what you have to say, but I just find it disappointing that someone as knowledgable as you about basketball wants to spend a handful of posts complaining about officiating when clearly the better team won the series.[/quote]
Good Lord dude. If I’m as knowledgable about the game as you think I am maybe you should listen to what I’m saying instead of arguing with me. If you noticed, I’m not the only one saying it.
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]scj119 wrote:
Remember when Marvin Williams was a #1 overall pick?[/quote]
2nd pick in the draft behind Bogut, ahead of two randoms named Deron Williams and Chris Paul. Wonder what happened to those two? In all seriousness, M Williams was looked at as a potentially more explosive Jamal Mashburn at the time. Every team in the league would’ve made that pick. Thinking about it, Atlanta has made some atrocious high draft picks [Shelden Williams, Marvin, trading Gasol at 3 to Memphis, etc…] aside from Horford, but they do pretty well mid first round. Actually, calling Marvin Williams an atrocious pick is unfair, 'cause when he’s healthy and getting minutes he’s fairly productive, he just can’t put it all together.[/quote]
Whoops forgot about Bogut, yeah. If the Hawks had CP3 running pick and rolls (or pick and pops) with Horford they would be a contender. I always thought something was off with Marvin…I just didn’t see the athleticism everyone else seemed to (not trying to brag, I’ve been wrong about plenty of players…Joakim Noah for one)[/quote]
I agree on the athleticism thing. The “more explosive Mashburn” was the consensus at the time, not my take on him. If I remember right, he and Bogut posted the same [or close] verticals at the combine, and neither were impressive in an absolute sense. Also, if I remember right both D. Williams and Paul weren’t looked at as sure things. I guess that had to be the case or they’d be playing with the Bucks and Hawks, respectively. I remember that being thought of as a weak draft, with Williams not being athletic enough and Paul being too small. It’s kinda funny to look back at the drafts over the years and see how they’d shape up if we knew then what’s known now.[/quote]
Wasn’t there concern over Paul being able to hit NBA 3s as well? Draft isn’t my specialty…I pay more attention some years than others.
I just looked up that draft though (2005)… I literally bellowed with laughter when I saw the Clips took Yaroslav Korolev 12th overall (ahead of a lot of good players). Ironically that was an incredibly deep draft… Granger 17th, Jarret Jack 22, David Lee 30, Brandon Bass 33, CJ Miles 34, Monta Ellis 40th (!), Blatche 49th, Gortat 57th and lots of other guys who’ve gotten decent run as well
[/quote]
Lou Williams went in the 2nd round to the Sixers as well, and I truly believe that if he went to the Warriors instead of Ellis we’d be seeing Lou Williams AND-1 spots instead of Ellis’s. Anyway, yeah there were all kinds of concerns about both Paul and Williams games. Both were thought to have shaky jumpers, no NBA range, Paul being too small, Williams being unathletic, all kinds of shit. It’s kind of funny, 'cause now even with all the recent influx of talent when those 2 are healthy they are the 2 best pg’s in the game.
Caption: “I mean, if Luke Harangody laughs at you - something’s gotta be wrong.”
I heard something interesting today on Mike and Mike in the morning (ESPN morning radio show for people who don’t know)
They were saying how the NBA should adopt the same policy as the NHL and reseeding the playoffs after each round. It made sense after they explained it but basically they were saying that Dallas had a better regular season than OKC and deserved a second round home series more than OKC (assuming the Grizz beat the Spurs)
I’d never really thought about that before but it makes sense to me. What do you guys think?
[quote]gregron wrote:
I heard something interesting today on Mike and Mike in the morning (ESPN morning radio show for people who don’t know)
They were saying how the NBA should adopt the same policy as the NHL and reseeding the playoffs after each round. It made sense after they explained it but basically they were saying that Dallas had a better regular season than OKC and deserved a second round home series more than OKC (assuming the Grizz beat the Spurs)
I’d never really thought about that before but it makes sense to me. What do you guys think?[/quote]
I think every playoff should either reseed or use seed-inheritance; Grizzlies prize for winning a road series vs the #1 seed is a road series vs the #4.
That said, I don’t think it’s some huge deal that is breaking the playoffs. I’m fine either way.