2008 NBA Playoff Thread

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501

[quote]Xeneize wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Xeneize wrote:
Odom

Awesome pic!

Is it just me, or is Odom really stepped up this year in the playoffs? I always thought he was a decent player, but this, he’s really elevated his game to a new level. He’s obviously no threat to Kobe, but has proven himself to be a good number two for the Lakers. Consistent night in and night out, staying healthy, he’s done well for himself.

From what I’ve read, Odom was really disappointed in his Game 3 effort and was determined to step up tonight. I consider him more of a No. 3, and I think he’s very comfortable in that role. He’s really found his niche.

[EDIT}From The New York Times story for tomorrow:

Odom, who blamed himself for the Game 3 loss, was having another rough night, battling foul trouble and poor shooting. But he found his way when it mattered, with eight points down the stretch, including five on a driving dunk and a 3-point play. After scoring through Fabricio Oberto’s foul, Odom bellowed, “Yeah!” and slapped hands with Bryant.
[/quote]

The X-Man always on the ball. Nice work!

Yeah the dunk was nice, as well as the 3-point play. He definitely made up for it in a big way tonight.

Speaking of Oberto, what was up with him and Turiaf gettin into it late in the game?

502

I know they’re the defending champs and I know they’re playing at home, but the Spurs getting the calls they get is absurd. With that, they played their asses off towards the end and I was starting to think they might pull it out. I’m interested to see how game 5 plays out. I want the Lakers to clinch it, but the Spurs are gonna play BALLS OUT. I can’t wait.

503

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:

Speaking of Oberto, what was up with him and Turiaf gettin into it late in the game?[/quote]

Looked like Oberto tried to help Turiaf up after Ronny hit the deck. But Ronny knocked his hand away and waited for a teammate. I didn’t see if Oberto caused Ronny to fall or not, and I have to say I am a little surprised to see Turiaf engaging in those sort of games(since he is generally so impossibly upbeat and positive). Could have just been a case of Ronny being frustrated, letting it out on the first person he could.

Though plenty of players specifically make it a point to not accept a hand up from the opposing team, so it’s certainly not without precedent.

504

[quote]tmoney1 wrote:
Xeneize wrote:
tmoney1 wrote:
Xeneize wrote:
Odom

Awesome pic!

Is it just me, or is Odom really stepped up this year in the playoffs? I always thought he was a decent player, but this, he’s really elevated his game to a new level. He’s obviously no threat to Kobe, but has proven himself to be a good number two for the Lakers. Consistent night in and night out, staying healthy, he’s done well for himself.

From what I’ve read, Odom was really disappointed in his Game 3 effort and was determined to step up tonight. I consider him more of a No. 3, and I think he’s very comfortable in that role. He’s really found his niche.

[EDIT}From The New York Times story for tomorrow:

Odom, who blamed himself for the Game 3 loss, was having another rough night, battling foul trouble and poor shooting. But he found his way when it mattered, with eight points down the stretch, including five on a driving dunk and a 3-point play. After scoring through Fabricio Oberto’s foul, Odom bellowed, “Yeah!” and slapped hands with Bryant.

The X-Man always on the ball. Nice work!

Yeah the dunk was nice, as well as the 3-point play. He definitely made up for it in a big way tonight.

Speaking of Oberto, what was up with him and Turiaf gettin into it late in the game?[/quote]

Had my back turned for the Oberto-Turiaf thing. Didn’t really see what that was about.

One other thing, as I mentioned before, Ginobili, Game 3 notwithstanding, struggles against LA. He was virtually nonexistent tonight.

505

So does Parker. Were it not for Barry, this game would not have been at all close. It is so surprising that Tony Parker is so adept at getting to the hoop, but he’s such a poor perimeter shooter. You would think that being so small, that would have been a skill he would have developed. He more than makes up for it though, with his impossible drives to the basket.

506

[quote]Malevolence wrote:
So does Parker. Were it not for Barry, this game would not have been at all close. It is so surprising that Tony Parker is so adept at getting to the hoop, but he’s such a poor perimeter shooter. You would think that being so small, that would have been a skill he would have developed. He more than makes up for it though, with his impossible drives to the basket.[/quote]

QFT.

If Barry didn’t have such a big game, the Lakers would have had this game in the bag long before the end of the game.

It’s almost as if Parker plays like a small forward, with his inside game and drives to the basket. He definitely makes up for his bad outside shooting, where most all guards are hanging out. Thankfully for the Spurs, they have plenty of outside weapons (Barry, Ginobili, Finley, Horry) that Parker can do this thing by driving and slashing to the cup.

But I’m curious as to HOW he developed his slashing/driving abilities. Was it his upbringing? Did his coaches realize a hidden talent from a young age? Was he never any good at the outside game, but loved going inside, and modeled his game around that? Heck, he started for the Belgium national team at age 17, so he’s obviously very good at what he does.

507

[quote]Xeneize wrote:

One other thing, as I mentioned before, Ginobili, Game 3 notwithstanding, struggles against LA. He was virtually nonexistent tonight. [/quote]

Agreed. If it wasn’t for Barry, the Spurs would have lost by 20, not 2.

The Spurs need their Big Three to fire on all cylinders every game. When one of them doesn’t have a big game, it’s very hard for them to stay competitive during the course of the game. As mentioned, if Barry didn’t step up, the Spurs would have gotten blown out.

I feel the Spurs big three usually need to average 65 points a game to keep the game close, and making up the difference with the rest of the team.

508

I would hazard a guess to say that, like Chris Paul, he is and has always been fearless(hey, he bagged Eva Longoria, that’s got to say something).

Probably from a young age he has been confronting bigger and stronger players and making them eat his shoes at the rim. Built his confidence up and taught him how to best maneuver around players that are 6-10 inches taller and wider than he is.

I wouldn’t be at all surprised if some bigs out there literally don’t expect it at all, despite having studied the tapes, giving Monsieur Pahkah that split second advantage.

…

or maybe it’s his big head.

509

man I’m so glad we have Kobe, he always comes through and is just amazing every night. A lot of the other Lakers are still not playing up to their ability, once that happens its just going to be great since Kobe will always play well.

Ginobli didn’t play well at all today, was big reason spurs lost

Lakers should finish it off at home, take a miracle for spurs to beat them twice at home.

510

It was definitely a non-shooting foul but so what. The Lakers played better the whole night and deserved to win. They got more rebounds, more hustle plays, and played better defense. The Spurs are done. Honestly, I hope they lose in LA. I don’t want some dragged out series where they just wind up losing at the end anyway.

But now I remember why I hate the Lakers. Phil Jackson whining about the refs at the end of the first quarter and Kobe all alone streaking to basket for an easy shot instead of the layup or the straighton slam he does the 180 spin with behind the back dunk. Can you spell Hot Dog. The Celtics have a new fan.

I wonder if Tim Duncan will demand to be traded and then deny that he demanded to be traded and then trash R.C. Buford during the NBA finals?

511

[quote]deputydawg wrote:
It was definitely a non-shooting foul but so what. The Lakers played better the whole night and deserved to win. They got more rebounds, more hustle plays, and played better defense. The Spurs are done. Honestly, I hope they lose in LA. I don’t want some dragged out series where they just wind up losing at the end anyway.

But now I remember why I hate the Lakers. Phil Jackson whining about the refs at the end of the first quarter and Kobe all alone streaking to basket for an easy shot instead of the layup or the straighton slam he does the 180 spin with behind the back dunk. Can you spell Hot Dog. The Celtics have a new fan.

I wonder if Tim Duncan will demand to be traded and then deny that he demanded to be traded and then trash R.C. Buford during the NBA finals? [/quote]

Heh, I noticed that too.

I think that if the Lakers or the Duke Blue Devils ever, ever complain about the officiating, the opponent ought to automatically get two technical free throws and possession, no questions asked.

Those two teams have benefited from more questionable officiating over the years than any other basketball teams on the planet.

If Phil Jackson was all that broken up over the officiating, he can comfort himself knowing that the biggest questionable call of the night went in his favor. He could also console himself with all those rings he got due in large part to “Shaq rules” officiating.

“He’s just so strong, he just can’t help himself from pile-driving a defender off the block and then dropping the ball in the hoop! Of course that’s not an offensive foul! …Oh, and one?! Even better! Awesome!”

512

[quote]deputydawg wrote:
But now I remember why I hate the Lakers. Phil Jackson whining about the refs at the end of the first quarter and Kobe all alone streaking to basket for an easy shot instead of the layup or the straighton slam he does the 180 spin with behind the back dunk. Can you spell Hot Dog. The Celtics have a new fan.
[/quote]

Please all great players have a bit of showmanship, not everyone can be like boring Duncan. Michael Jordan is a great example of a showman.

513

Great coaches always are looking for an edge. Working a relationship with the ref is just part of the game. And Jackson had reason to at least mention something to the ref. After all, Kobe took exactly ONE free throw in two games in San Antonio. Seems a little low by any standard.

514

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:

Heh, I noticed that too.

I think that if the Lakers or the Duke Blue Devils ever, ever complain about the officiating, the opponent ought to automatically get two technical free throws and possession, no questions asked.

Those two teams have benefited from more questionable officiating over the years than any other basketball teams on the planet.
[/quote]

Funny how fans always say that about teams they hate. In-state, the North Carolina Tar Heels are much more beloved, and MUCH MORE hated than the Blue Devils. I can’t even count the times the tar heels have benefited from calls.

Lakers fans would probably say the same about the Celtics.

I think it more or less evens itself out over time, though.

[quote]If Phil Jackson was all that broken up over the officiating, he can comfort himself knowing that the biggest questionable call of the night went in his favor. He could also console himself with all those rings he got due in large part to “Shaq rules” officiating.

“He’s just so strong, he just can’t help himself from pile-driving a defender off the block and then dropping the ball in the hoop! Of course that’s not an offensive foul! …Oh, and one?! Even better! Awesome!”[/quote]

You must be joking.
Shaq is the most fouled player who ever lived. Because he is/was a beast, he had to endure a huge double standard. Defenders were given incredible leeway to hang all over him and hack him to pieces. It’s a good thing Shaq has a pretty even temperament, because a more volatile man would’ve finally said enough and killed somebody.

I can just imagine Shaq pulling a Robert Parrish and beating the shit out of Bill Laimbeer. Permanent brain damage.

515

[quote]Xeneize wrote:
Funny how fans always say that about teams they hate. In-state, the North Carolina Tar Heels are much more beloved, and MUCH MORE hated than the Blue Devils. I can’t even count the times the tar heels have benefited from calls.

Lakers fans would probably say the same about the Celtics.

I think it more or less evens itself out over time, though.[/quote]

Yes, UNC gets more than their share of calls as well. But first, I really do not think it evens out over time. Second, the glamor teams get all the calls in every sport, so I’m sure the Celts got a bunch of calls in their hey-days in the '80’s.

It’s not unusual that the NBA gives its star players and marquee teams get beneficial treatment from the refs; that happens in every sport. But the NBA IS a lot more blatant and overt about the disparate officiating than other sports.

Does anybody remember MJ? Rightly regarded as arguably the best player to ever play the game, but it’s also true that he had the refs in his back pocket.

[quote]You must be joking.
Shaq is the most fouled player who ever lived. Because he is/was a beast, he had to endure a huge double standard. Defenders were given incredible leeway to hang all over him and hack him to pieces. It’s a good thing Shaq has a pretty even temperament, because a more volatile man would’ve finally said enough and killed somebody.

I can just imagine Shaq pulling a Robert Parrish and beating the shit out of Bill Laimbeer. Permanent brain damage.
[/quote]

Shaq was fouled a ton, mainly because he couldn’t hit his free throws, so it was made a lot on sense to send him to the line rather than let him take an 18 inch shot.

But there was no double-standard. Defenders might have been able to be a little more physical with Shaq than with other players, but Shaq was allowed to bowl over defenders in a way that would foul out every other player in the league within minutes. He gave far more than he got.

Elbows and shoves and shoulders and checks that would be an offensive foul for every other player in the league were par for the course for Shaq nearly every trip down court. And every time Shaq bounced a defender off the block with a hip check, we’d get to hear the announcers defend the no-call with “He’s just so strong, he doesn’t mean to bowl over defenders like that!”

But the way that I saw it was that it didn’t matter that he really was that strong: you’re not allowed to knock defenders over like bowling pins, and that is exactly what the refs allowed Shaq to do.

It was frustrating as a guy who wasn’t a big fan of the Lakers (and Shaq specifically) to watch them get break after break from the refs en route to a three-peat. They were a very good team no doubt, but in crunch time, they got every single 50/50 call, home or away.

Last night’s no-call brought back memories, and then Phil Jackson’s whining about the officiating in a game he won rankled me a little bit. He’s the last person on the planet to be complaining about officiating.

Anyhow, it’s water under the bridge at this point, and I won’t pollute this thread any further with this topic.

516

I have to agree with TGunslinger and deputydawg: that should have been whistled on the ground, so two shots in the penalty.

I’m still unsure of which MAJOR mental mistake amazed me most: Bryant trying to go coast-to-coast when LAL didn’t need a score, Fisher leaving his feet period, or Barry not jumping directly into a compromised Fisher.

I guess I’m leaning towards Bones Barry: if he even just stands there, he gets two or three free throws. By putting the ball on the floor and appearing to try and go AROUND Fisher, he basically did the worst thing possible.

517

[quote]tGunslinger wrote:

Yes, UNC gets more than their share of calls as well. But first, I really do not think it evens out over time. Second, the glamor teams get all the calls in every sport, so I’m sure the Celts got a bunch of calls in their hey-days in the '80’s.

It’s not unusual that the NBA gives its star players and marquee teams get beneficial treatment from the refs; that happens in every sport. But the NBA IS a lot more blatant and overt about the disparate officiating than other sports.

Does anybody remember MJ? Rightly regarded as arguably the best player to ever play the game, but it’s also true that he had the refs in his back pocket.[/quote]

Remember MJ? Marques Johnson? j/k… :stuck_out_tongue:

Certainly don’t disagree with you here. Jordan got more than his share of calls, and the NBA, more than other leagues gives great leeway to its stars. Good points.

I guess we’ll just amicably disagree on this one. Yes, Shaq was like a bull in a china shop sometimes, but he got fouled (and didn’t get the calls) way more often than the reverse.

518

Just for fun. :stuck_out_tongue:

519

[quote]chillain wrote:
I have to agree with TGunslinger and deputydawg: that should have been whistled on the ground, so two shots in the penalty.

I’m still unsure of which MAJOR mental mistake amazed me most: Bryant trying to go coast-to-coast when LAL didn’t need a score, Fisher leaving his feet period, or Barry not jumping directly into a compromised Fisher.

I guess I’m leaning towards Bones Barry: if he even just stands there, he gets two or three free throws. By putting the ball on the floor and appearing to try and go AROUND Fisher, he basically did the worst thing possible.
[/quote]

Agreed. Kobe definitely made a dumb mistake on the coast-to-coast trip, but Barry’s error was larger. He actually initiated the contact with Fisher. It was a close call, but he, not Fisher made the contact. To his credit and Poppovich’s, neither said the call should have been made by the ref.

Spurs got a nice no-call last year against the Suns when Horry pushed Nash into the seats, and now that they had a very close one go against them, they showed some real class. Good to see.

520

[quote]Xeneize wrote:
chillain wrote:
I have to agree with TGunslinger and deputydawg: that should have been whistled on the ground, so two shots in the penalty.

I’m still unsure of which MAJOR mental mistake amazed me most: Bryant trying to go coast-to-coast when LAL didn’t need a score, Fisher leaving his feet period, or Barry not jumping directly into a compromised Fisher.

I guess I’m leaning towards Bones Barry: if he even just stands there, he gets two or three free throws. By putting the ball on the floor and appearing to try and go AROUND Fisher, he basically did the worst thing possible.

Agreed. Kobe definitely made a dumb mistake on the coast-to-coast trip, but Barry’s error was larger. He actually initiated the contact with Fisher. It was a close call, but he, not Fisher made the contact. To his credit and Poppovich’s, neither said the call should have been made by the ref.

Spurs got a nice no-call last year against the Suns when Horry pushed Nash into the seats, and now that they had a very close one go against them, they showed some real class. Good to see.

[/quote]

That’s a good point. How quickly we all forgot that last year it was the Spurs that were the main beneficiary of a highly questionable decision vs. the Suns in the 2nd round.

Karma’s a bitch.