It’s not just the winners who are crooks - let’s remember that.
CR
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
msuchancey wrote:
I think the only proof there is about a conspiracy is that the Democratic Party has conspired to fuck itself for the last 8 years by running Al Gore and John Kerry…
Why don’t they try to give the American public a reason not to vote for Bush instead of whining and bitching at losing a close race?
Exactly. Give us a real option![/quote]
Oh my God. A voice of true reason. Holy shit! Oh, my heart…ok I’m better.
[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
And yet somehow, some way, all these relatively mainstream newspapers, magazines, and TV stations like the NYT, Time, CBS, CNN, etc., that are slobbering over themselves on the NSA issue and speculating about a possible impeachment of the President just simply can’t find the time to cover this amazing story? I’m shocked that such a wonderful story with no logical holes whatsoever would be so ignored. Something just doesn’t add up… Hmm…[/quote]
LOL…(shaking head)
[quote]steveo5801 wrote:
C’mon you liberals and GET OVER IT ALREADY!
The problem is not the “big bad conspiracy” to steal elections by the Republicans, the problem is that the Democrats and the Liberals HAVE NO IDEAS OF HOW TO SOLVE ANYTHING!
You had control of everything for around 40 years or so and basically messed it all up. Big government, judges who legislate from the bench because you cannot advance your agenda through the normal process, etc. Now you cry about elections…
Wah, wah, wah…
Get over it![/quote]
Will you stop clouding the issue with FACTS!
First, apologies for the delayed response…
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
JTF has countless posts and they are ALL bullshit.
Perhaps he finally got this one right but I doubt it.[/quote]
Don’t you think that comment is a bit shallow in regards to his material? After all, he provides numerous sources to back up his arguments. Have you personally evaluated each one of them and reached your conclusion from there? Or are you generalizing? Since you don’t provide a counter argument, I have to assume the latter.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
JFK won his election by getting untold numbers of dead people to the polls.
It is common knowledge in Texas that LBJ would simply call up ‘his guys’ in South Texas and let them know how many dead people needed to make it to the polls for him to win.
Where is the outcry over those crooked victories? Is there difference between 4 years and 40 when it comes to election injustice?
Or is it because the left lost, and rather than face the truth about losing, you have to blame something besides yourselves? [/quote]
I have heard about the instances of electoral fraud which you mentioned. However, I think it’s worth pointing out that any recent allegations deserve to be subjected to a comprehensive, independant investigation, regardless of whatever may have happened in the past. Perhaps “the left” is, merely, “searching for someone to blame”, in this case, but to reach that conclusion requires more than an exposition of past voting scandals and any hypocrisy inherent to them on the Left.
[quote]BostonBarrister
Really? What are some of my ridiculously broad assumptions concerning unidentified forces of darkness working together across jurisdictional boundaries to effectuate a broad, coordinated effort?[/quote]
The broad assumption of yours that stands out to me is the one which automatically pins JTF as a conspiracy theorist/political muckraker simply because he happens to be defending an unconventional and rather controversial point of view. The boundaries of controversy are very subjective. The purpose of my comment was to illustrate the folly of critiquing someone’s argument based on its conventionality rather than it’s content.
[quote]BostonBarrister
Ah, I see you skipped over all the articles and links I posted above actually addressing the ridiculous conspiracy stuff, and focused on the common-sense thoughts.[/quote]
That’s right, more or less. I prefer to approach arguments on their theoretical and philosophical basis rather than trying to sift through contrasting anecdotes. So, in this case, I’m not “choosing a side” between you and JTF, because I simply don’t possess enough information to reach any objective conclusion.
[quote]BostonBarrister
Fair enough – why not offer some equally common-sensical reasoning as to why the MSM would want to skip over such a story if it were in fact newsworthy?[/quote]
Well, I can give it a shot. In reading various “alternative” news sites on the net, a common theme which I have often encountered is the characterization of the MSM as “pro-establishment,” rather than the more often heard of “pro-left” or “pro-right”. I tend to agree with this characterization, as it makes more sense to me than the other two. For one thing, I’ve never really been able to identify any discernable politicial bias in mainstream media sources, though, admittedly, I don’t get much exposure to them. I can see why the MSM would have a stance favorable towards the establishment as a whole rather than a left/right ideological slant. The reason for this is that news media is a business – and like any other business, it has to cater to the interests of its consumer base in order to be profitable. In the case of the MSM, it’s consumer base is pretty much the entire country, working class and above. I happen to think that the majority of the population takes a pro-establishment stance, in one form or another; obviously, America is not a nation of anarchists. So, it stands to reason that the MSM would reflect the overwhelmingly pro-establishment views of its target audience. Once this has been “established” (a convenient pun), it sheds some light on why the MSM would choose to ignore or downplay stories which lack popular appeal by virtue of their indictment of individuals and institutions which are fundamental to the establishment of this country, the voting process being a primary example. Certainly, the MSM has downplayed “unpopular”, yet relevant, stories in the past. The motivations for this are open to debate, but there you have my speculation on the issue.
People always want to believe, no matter how many flaws and holes are uncovered in the system, that it is fundamentally benevolent and basically efficient in its ostensible role of “looking out for the common man”.
I’ll let the Enquirer comment go since the issue is really not worth debating.
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
First, apologies for the delayed response…
Zap Branigan wrote:
JTF has countless posts and they are ALL bullshit.
Perhaps he finally got this one right but I doubt it.
Don’t you think that comment is a bit shallow in regards to his material? After all, he provides numerous sources to back up his arguments. Have you personally evaluated each one of them and reached your conclusion from there? Or are you generalizing? Since you don’t provide a counter argument, I have to assume the latter.
…[/quote]
I don’t know if you have read JTF’s many insane conspiracy posts but he is an anti-Semitic spreader of lies. He sees a vast Jewish conspiracy behind every bad action that goes on in the world.
I do not have to go through each and every one of his posts to know they are bullshit. The first few were more than enough for me.
The fact that he references stories from websites that are run by like minded assholes does not mean a god damn thing besides there are many assholes in the world.
If you buy into his bullshit you are either a naive fool or you are also a spreader of lies and deceit.
I don’t take kindly to this kind of bullshit and I will point it out everytime.
I admit it…I stole the election in 2004. I sold it for $250 and used that money on crack. My bad.
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
I admit it…I stole the election in 2004. I sold it for $250 and used that money on crack. My bad.[/quote]
You better get it back before you get in trouble. Seriously dude, people are getting pissed.
The fact that the right wingnuttery has flamed and flooded this thread proves that our election system is highly suspect.
How do you think the Democrats ran everything for so long…they ran the majority of the elections.
All close elections bring up the question of fraud.
Truth be told:
Bush won the 2004 election by 100,000 votes.
Kerry received more votes than any other Presidential canidate in history besides the guy he lost to…yes, Kerry received more votes than Reagan.
Arrogance comes before a fall. The Democrats took 40 years to undo themselves and GOP is teetering on besting that by coming unglued after 10 years of dominance.
Let the flames begin…
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
The fact that the right wingnuttery has flamed and flooded this thread proves that our election system is highly suspect.
How do you think the Democrats ran everything for so long…they ran the majority of the elections.
All close elections bring up the question of fraud.
Truth be told:
Bush won the 2004 election by 100,000 votes.
Kerry received more votes than any other Presidential canidate in history besides the guy he lost to…yes, Kerry received more votes than Reagan.
Arrogance comes before a fall. The Democrats took 40 years to undo themselves and GOP is teetering on besting that by coming unglued after 10 years of dominance.
Let the flames begin…[/quote]
Your just whistling past your own graveyard. If you think you lefties have a chance to gain back anyting while putting up as your leaders:
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Dr. Howard Dean (“Dr. Demento”)
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Hillary “Rotten” Clinton
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Cindy Sheehan
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Ted (“ooops someone was in the car”) Kennedy
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Al ("I can’t believe I lost) Gore
…and other lefty wackos like these, I say GOOD LUCK. Oh, you may win in New York and California and a couple of other places, but the majority of Americans will just not support these types of screeching, screaming, shrill, socialists who want to take our great country and turn it into their vision of “utopia.”
No thanks.
Third elections worker indicted over presidential recount
The Associated Press
3/9/2006
CLEVELAND (AP) - The third highest ranking employee at the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections has been indicted on charges of mishandling ballots during the 2004 presidential election recount.
Jacqueline Maiden is the third board worker charged with six counts alleging that Ohio laws were not followed in the selection and review of ballots for the recount.
http://www.cleveland.com/newsflash/cleveland/index.ssf?/base/news-23/1141899847127640.xml&storylist=cleveland
MD House Votes 137 to 0 to Ban Diebold Touch-Screen Voting in 2006
Healey said the effort was inspired in part by concerns raised by officials in California and Florida that the Diebold systems have inherent security problems caused by technological and procedural flaws.
Summit voting gear flunks
Akron Beacon Journal
Mar 09, 2006
The computer memory cards in the newoptical-scan voting equipment at the Summit County Board of Elections have experienced a 30 percent failure rate in testing this week.
The first 177 cards tested Monday worked flawlessly, Williams said. When testing began on the remaining 348 cards, however, the failure rate was so high that the rest were thrown out. ES&S had a second batch of cards sent to Akron on Tuesday, but Williams said those cards experienced a similar failure rate. He said a third batch is expected to arrive today.
http://www.ohio.com/mld/beaconjournal/news/local/states/ohio/counties/summit_county/14055096.htm
Vote spike blamed on program snafu
Mar. 09, 2006
The error caused Tarrant County to report as many as 100,000 votes in both primaries that never were cast, dropping the local turnout from a possible record high of about 158,103 voters to about 58,000.
Elections officials did not look into the discrepancies that night because they were dealing with a new system, new procedures and some new equipment, said Gayle Hamilton, Tarrant County’s interim elections administrator.
http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/news/local/14056065.htm
State rebuffs raw vote demand
Anchorage Daily News
January 24, 2006
The state Division of Elections has refused to turn over its electronic voting files to the Democrats, arguing that the data format belongs to a private company and can’t be made public.
The Alaska Democratic Party says the information is a public record essential for verifying the accuracy of the 2004 general election and must be provided.
Investors have sued the Ohio-based parent company, Diebold Inc., over whether it concealed problems with its voting machines, among other issues. Its chief executive, who once vowed to deliver Ohio electoral votes to President Bush, recently stepped down.
“The results from the 2004 election in Alaska just plain look squirrelly,” March said.
For instance, district-by-district vote totals add up to 292,267 votes for President Bush, but his official total was only 190,889.
http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/7386582p-7298824c.html
Global Eye
Party Hacks
Moscow Times
March 3, 2006
Thus, the 2008 election will be conducted largely on wide-open machines programmed by avowed partisans and paymasters of a ruthless gang that has already committed demonstrable vote fraud on a massive scale in engineering narrow “victories” in 2000 and 2004.
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/story/166395/
Report: Recount Vote Left Wounds in Some Justices
Washington Post
September 10, 2001
Supreme Court Justice David H. Souter was convinced he could have altered the outcome of the 5 to 4 decision that tipped the presidential election to George W. Bush had he been given just “one more day” in which to make his case to a wavering Anthony M. Kennedy, Newsweek magazine reported yesterday.
It describes Souter and the three colleagues who joined him in dissent – Justices Stephen G. Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and John Paul Stevens – as angered and baffled by the majority opinion.
Their emotions boiled to the surface in January when Breyer told a delegation of visiting Russian justices, as his colleagues looked on, that the court’s decision was “the most outrageous, indefensible thing” it had ever done, according to the account.
Two Bush 2000 Florida recount aides were rewarded with top FEMA posts
http://www.pnionline.com/dnblog/attytood/archives/002346.html
Americans are so brainwashed that we can read all the info and facts and still deny it.
Should we form a posse?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Should we form a posse?[/quote]
A posse of bodybuilders?! What are the chances that more than 3 of us would have an off-day at the same time?
Obviously your just being silly…
It’s touching to see that so many of you have such faith in the system. I can’t imagine being so naive and gullible myself.
What?
Are you trying to suggest that there are corrupt people that might actually do illegal things?
Don’t be silly! You don’t need to worry abot protecting yourselves from abuse of power…
This is utopia, trust everyone!
Nice side-by-side comparison of slot machine vs vote machine regulations.
How To Steal an Election
Washington Post
3/16/06
It’s easier to rig an electronic voting machine than a Las Vegas slot machine, says University of Pennsylvania visiting professor Steve Freeman. That’s because Vegas slots are better monitored and regulated than America’s voting machines, Freeman writes in a book out in July…
Some things never change. JTF is still making foil hats for everyone, absoulutely fucking clueless as to why he is treated like a nut job.
And vroom…well…is stil trying desparately to show how enlightened he can be if we would only listen to him instead of laughing at his unzipped pants.
Please - I beg of you left-of-center Daily Kos’ers, keep looking back. Back to 2004. Back to 2000. We’ll keep taking your seats and shuffling you out the door. Less than eight months until the hounds are released and you are branded losers for…what is it now?..6 straight elections?
George Soros would be proud of you.
LOL.
Rainjack, you profess to never actually know what I’m talking about anyway.
As it is, I’m honored to be included in your little drive by pot-shot. I can tell you miss me big guy!
Is your schedule going to let you come out and play again soon?
Lest anyone think this was a dead issue…
BOBBY KENNEDY JR. TO QUESTION 2004 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN MAJOR ROLLING STONE FEATURE ARTICLE
‘Evidence Shows High-Level Republicans Succeeded in Scheme to Steal Election in Ohio’
A damning and detailed feature article, written by Robert F. Kennedy Jr., for Rolling Stone and documenting evidence of the theft of the 2004 Presidential Election is set to hit newstands this Friday.
He writes in the 10-page long article, and confirmed to us today, that evidence shows Ohio Sec. of State J. Kenneth Blackwell was “certainly in on” the scheme, and there are indications that the effort went all the way up to the White House.
Now all he has to do is avoid small planes and open top cars…
Prominent Statisticians Refute ‘Explanation’ of 2004 U.S. Exit Poll Discrepancies in New Edison/Mitofsky Report and Urge Investigation of U.S. Presidential Election Results
The Gun is Smoking - 2004 Ohio Precinct-Level Exit Poll Data Show Virtually Irrefutable Evidence of Vote Miscount
20 Amazing Facts About Voting in the USA
12. Diebold employed 5 convicted felons as senior managers and developers to help write the central compiler computer code that counted 50% of the votes in 30 states.
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Jeff Dean, Diebold’s Senior Vice-President and senior programmer on Diebold’s central compiler code, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft in the first degree.
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Diebold Senior Vice-President Jeff Dean was convicted of planting back doors in his software and using a “high degree of sophistication” to evade detection over a period of 2 years.
http://www.yuricareport.com/2004%20Election%20Fraud/20AmazingFactsAboutElections.html
Shocking Diebold conflict of interest revelations from Secretary of State further taint Ohio’s electoral credibility
April 6, 2006
Ohio is reeling with a mixture of outrage and hilarity as Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell has revealed that he has owned stock in the Diebold voting machine company, to which Blackwell tried to award unbid contracts worth millions while allowing its operators to steal Ohio elections. A top Republican election official also says a Diebold operative told him he made a $50,000 donation to Blackwell’s “political interests.”
Blackwell Won’t Remove Himself From Election Investigation
May 8, 2006
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=4875139
Noe Pleads Guilty to Funneling Donations to Bush’s Re-Election Campaign
May 31, 2006
http://www.wtol.com/Global/story.asp?S=4971180
Scientists call Diebold security flaw ‘worst ever’
05/11/2006
The hole allows someone with a common computer component and knowledge of Diebold systems to load almost any software without a password or proof of authenticity and potentially without leaving telltale signs of the change.
"It’s the most serious security breach that’s ever been discovered in a voting system. On this one, the probability of success is extremely high because there’s no residue… Any kind of cursory inspection of the machine would not reveal it."
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_3809493