Also just new here and would like to have some advice, i am just about 2 years on TRT. Started out with compounded TD cream 10% (8 pumps per day = appr. 2,4 grams actual Testosteron absorbtion was 10%) in the beginning it raised my levels and i felt good, but after 7 months started to feel worse again and did lab works and there it showed my TT levels dropped from 8438 ng/L till 3731 ng/L. See attached bloodwork) So my doctor said my skin was not absorbing the TD cream optimal any more. So we decided to switch to IM first 250mg every 2 weeks, did this and got the following results (21-12-2018) bloodwork was done at day 10 after injection. Than i learned from this side and see that frequently injections provide better/steady level. So after last lab work om 21-12-2018 i started from first week in january to IM with +/- 62,5 mg every 3,5 days (Sunday evenings and Thursday mornings) Next week hursday 21-03-2019 i will do another labwork still with 2 x pw shallow IM injection @ 62,5mg (125mg weekly)
My current protocol is
every 3,5 day IM with 62,5mg Test E
every day after injection 0,25mg Arimidex (so twice a week)
every day 120mg erfa Thyroid
every day 7,5mg prednisolone
every day 30mg DHEA
every day 3mg copper (as it was lowish)
every week 1 small vial D-cure to raise Vitamin D
every day 22,5mg zinc
About my symptoms; I think iāam still not dialed in to my sweet spot,
as my sleep is still far from good. (sleep average 5-6 hours, and wake up many times a night, light sleep, and almost no deep and rem sleep) so therefore not refreshed in the morning.
donāt wake up energized in the morning.
Although i do CrossFit 4 x per week, my diet/food is i guess in order with Macroās but very difficult to loose fat from chest and lovehandles etc.
Sofar i never experienced the good feelings and results that many people here on TRT experiencing.
anyone that would like to contribute to my views or my protocols are welcome, as most people on the forum weāre all here to learn from eachother.
I going to have another appointment with me doctor soon, and would appreciate if you guys can give me some feed back and pointers that i need to discuss with my doctor to get more optimal feeling.
If it were me Iād probably start from scratch and make your ānew beginningā protocol as simple as possible with just T and thyroid meds if you are sure you need them and start with that for 6-8 weeks and see where you end up.
DROP THE AI. Drop the zinc.
I think you could afford to increase your T dosage personally, maybe to 150mg total per week. Something like that
Donāt be misleaded by all colours, because the excel sheet i made myself of all bloodworks and what i think could be more optimal. To start from scratch could be a possibilty, but in my opinion a lot has to do with the bad sleep pattern (it is not sleep apnea) but insomnia. I mean iāve i look at my cortisol it was and is always pretty low in the mornings and should be highest during wake up.
So could it be my circ. rythym is off balance and cortisol rises to early always around 03 -04 hours midnight. and FT4 is also pretty low?
Thx for reply i did this for from jan 2019 till march 2019 for about 8 weeks, the estradiol went up from 29 till 54 (there was no real difference in feeling, only breast more sensitive), after that i got HCG prescribed 2 x 500IU per week + 2 x 1/4 tab Arimidex, next bloodreading on april 2019 E2 went up even more due HCG but now 2 x 1/4 ari
Donāt take the hcg until you get Testosterone right. Up your dose and try that. I felt the same way in every 20mg increment from 100-160mg. Same when I took an AI. Could not sleep well, didnāt have energy or feel like I thought a normal person should. My current E2 is almost 80. I feel good. If 125mg isnāt cutting it then up that shit.
A simpler protocol will be more easy to dial in, you may spend years trying to dial in with so many other compounds, the HCG and AI are probably degrading how you feel and youāre probably thinking itās the FT or E2 levels then moving in the wrong direction.
TRT in isolation is so much easier compared with your complicated protocol.
Thx man, but when used only test E without HCG or an ai for 6 weeks there was no difference in the overal feeling only more sensitive feeling in breast 24 hours after injection. So I think if I up the dose there will be more sides or do you think otherwise?
The AI definitely complicates your life and makes things more difficult, it should be a last resort thing. The chest (and shoulders) has a lot of androgen receptors ,so introducing androgens when you have been low on them (the testosterone and E2) is going to cause some sensations and weirdness at first. It goes away. Most guys get freaked out by it and think its gyno, and it almost certainly is not. Gyno takes months to develop and isnāt itchiness or sensitivity, itās a growth under the nipple.
The HCG is going to cause natural production, which is going to produce E2 at the testes where the AI cannot go, which means taking the AI blocks your E2 everywhere else but leaves you with a higher E2 number. This is bad because you will not havve the E2 where you need it (heart, joints) but will get all of the bloat and self-induced panic about the number.
That make sense now with the sensations I was having on my chest. Never really thought it was gyno as it wasnāt the nipples where I was feeling it. Just had a tingly feeling and skin felt ultra sensitive to my clothing all over the chest. Went away after about 3 months for me. I can see it causing worry with those afraid of gyno.
Thx for detailed explanations, I understand what you say about the E2 and will drop the AI, but would you all suggest to drop to hcg as well. Because I have serious testicular atrophy and they pulling up to much and with 3 x 250 iu per week they stay ok. Iāve been told and understand that when E2 is high or too high it takes away a lot of benefits of trt, so is this just not true ? Also what Iāve heard of so many of you guys that your fat% is dropping too or re-distribute that fat, because although my fat% is around 18% I carry much more fat on my chest and love handles and even serious workout CrossFit at least 4 times week, my fat on those areas have not changed at all it is same prior to trt and have minimal muscle gains in 2 years. Btw iāam 180 cm tall , weigh around 85/86 kg prior trt backsquat was 120kg 2 years later it is an ugly 125kg. Any advise to get my protocol in the right direction would be appreciated a lot.
Hi Guys, just got my labs back and would appreciate any feedback or comment, @dextermorgan i upped my dose to 25mg on daily injections (the daily injections doesnāt bother my at all. By doing this i have my Hematocrite lowered. I dināt use any AI over the 8 weeks periode but as you can see on report it crept up to 98, i donāt have water retention or emotional whatsoever the only thing is my libido is getting less and itās harder to keep an erection and insomnia still exsisting. So i think a lot of T or FT receptors are being taken by the E2, due this i still not feeling optimal or get the best results (this morning they check my fat% and it was 12%, only the fat on the chest is not realy going away)
My current protocol is
every day IM with 25mg Test E
every 3,5 HCG 250IU
every day 180mg erfa Thyroid
every day 7,5mg prednisolone
everyday 100mg Pregnonolone
every day 30mg DHEA
every day 3mg copper (as it was lowish)
every week 1 small vial D-cure to raise Vitamin D
every day 22,5mg zinc
About my symptoms; I think iāam still not dialed in to my sweet spot,
as my sleep is still far from good. (sleep average 5-6 hours, and wake up many times a night, light sleep, and almost no deep and rem sleep) so therefore not refreshed in the morning.
donāt wake up energized in the morning.
Although i do CrossFit 4 x per week, my diet/food is i guess in order with Macroās but very difficult to loose fat from chest and lovehandles etc.
Sofar i never experienced the good feelings and results that many people here on TRT experiencing, but iāam feeling iāam heading in the right direction.
Donāt take the zinc and copper at the same time, they need to be at least 3 hours apart, opposite ends of the day would be better. Consider dropping the HCG for a while. It is definitely contributing to the high E2, and some guys just canāt seem to feel right on it. Unless youāre trying to conceive you probably donāt need it anyway.
Thx for reply, yes my cortisol levels where always low even before TRT and didnāt get ultrasound of my kidneys or ACTH stimulation test, although my ACTH level was good on last bloodwork.
@hardartery, i take copper in the morning and zinc later in the evening. I tried dropping to HCG, i donāt notice anything different only that balls shrink more and are more pulled up than with HCG. So i use HCG twice a week @ 250IU per shot. Which keeps the balls more hanging and gives me some more sperm volume when ejeculation.
I realy wanted to go without AI and my intention is when i need just as little as possible, so last week i took 1/4 of arimidex on MO-WE-FRI and from wednessday onwards i got noctual wood and libido is soo much more.
My TT and FT numbers are giving me good thing in the Gym, i.e. recovery etc.
The only thing now (at least feeling wise) is that i donāt sleep very well, so never really wake up fully refreshed. But this was already before i started on TRT
