the hcg as used as post cycle comes from William Llewellyn’s book Anabolics. I have the tenth edition and that is what he suggest along with nolvadex and clomid to stimulate the HPTA
I buy all of my food in bulk for the most part. Anyway. My point is that my main meals and shakes are typically the same throughout the day. I don’t really count calories everyday - Too much of a chore. I don’t mind overeating and getting a little fat. I did count on an average day prior to cycle; I was at around 3600 calories (Almost all clean foods) 220g protein 350g carbs. On cycle I figure I would benefit from more. So I add some dirty to get the extra cals. Some fast food or some crap at lunch from work.
Let me know what you decide to run.
[quote]Jlee0054 wrote:
the hcg as used as post cycle comes from William Llewellyn’s book Anabolics. I have the tenth edition and that is what he suggest along with nolvadex and clomid to stimulate the HPTA[/quote]
I don’t have the book, however, from what I understand is he is saying that because in that instance you would already be shutdown. The point of hCG on cycle is to keep production active for a faster recovery. Therefore nullifying the need for it in PCT.
Its been a busy week - I’ve been in the gym (6days last week)! Wanted to go nonstop but I made a conscious decision to take a rest day for the good of my body.
I haven’t really been on the forums! I missed all the hot topics!
Here’s what is new. People are definitely noticing…LOL
My old bench was 225 max and has always been my weakest lift in my eyes.
I put up 225 x 2 and needed a little help on the 3rd rep so I didnt count it as a full rep. This was after a long warmup and sets of gradual increases. i.e. 195-205-215…
So I’m feeling pretty good about that. After the 225 x 3(2) I did drops sets of 185 like nothing and didn’t feel fatigued at all.
I’m really trying to improve my bench on this cycle.
As I said previously, I dont do heavy squats because of my injuries but I have increased my squatting volume (everyday I lift) and it is noticeable easier day by day.
My deadlift is up 20 lbs already. Easy lift too. I think I’m a little nervous to push myself further as I train alone.
My overhead press is up 10lbs easy as well.
Even lifting heavy as fuck on all my lifts I still feel like Ive got a full tank of gas. It’s great.
hCG is already helping my nut pain. Its seems to wear thin the morning of the next pin. (My nuts hurt a little when im supposed to pin later that day.) So, I think hCG 3x a week might have been the better choice for me. Next time I suppose. At least I’m learning.
Uhhh What else… My weight seems to be fluctuating as I dose arimidex. Which obviously makes sense. The heaviest I weighed in at this week was 203. o_O 200 club! Hahaha.
At first I felt like I was gaining some fat around my midsection, Now It seems im actually getting more defined. Off and on when bloaty. Speaking of bloaty, Some days Ill wake up and my fingers will feel all fat and tight. Like they have a pump. Hahaha…
I’m really looking forward to some more strength gains these next weeks! These are the ones that count! Eat eat eat! Lift lift lift!
As I said I dont really have pics of me right before cycle, However I have some when I was around 175 last summer and most of them are like pics I send to girls. LMAO. So I dont have any legs or back flexed. I’ll post what I have and some current ones. Youll get the idea.
“Hey…Are you taking steroids? Your arms are fucking huge bro…” - Guy at work
Hahahahahahaha. Till next time fuckers.
Oh boy haha. Are you on fucking roids dude!?!
Hrmmm… nah? 
lol. Sounds like things are going great! Very good! What was your starting weight?
The nut pain is definitely something to pay heed to hey? I am not running hcg throughout my cycle ( I may blast at the end if I prolong things ) and I tell yea, ill be fucking, dock hard as oak wood, and my boys are almost literally stinging. Doesnt stop yea much, nut pump? Lmao.
We are about the same time line I believe since we started right? Test should stay kicking in soon. Woooo
I believe you are 3-4 days ahead of me and cougarpride is about 2 weeks.
I was 185 starting. Seems like the massive water weight gain is stabilizing.
Yea that seems to be the case. I’ll be starting my first cycle in about a month and haven’t decided on hcg during or post
Quick update and a tale for those who want to rough the water without proper supplies!
I’ll just tell the story and then give my thoughts and why…
So back when I was newb I ran dbol only; I developed a small tissue under both my nips. I freaked out and didnt have any ancillaries on hand. So I got some stuff quick (letro and nolva) and ran that. The letro was was underdosed (chems) and I heard not to use nolva until the gyno was g2g from letro. So, letro being underdosed and not working, I had to get NEW letro from another source. Then I ran the nolva to recover and fuck was that a long road.
Long story short - I didn’t get labs back then, and i’m pretty sure my estrogen was fucking close to nothing. Severe joint aches, flat as paper, and the worst part… I had just started talking to a girl and my dick wouldn’t work for like 4 months … 
(That didn’t end up working out… because of the ED)
So the other day I was shopping and tried on some shirts. I took off my shirt and I was seriously bigger than a balloon. Like wtf huge. It was gross. Then as I was chillin at home I noticed my nips feeling a little irritated. So I upped my dose of Arimidex to eod instead of e3d. Two days go by and i’m at work and my nips are on fire! Get home, do a little manboob massage and sure as shit my lumps are back. So I started letro protocol and within the first night the soreness and irritation are gone. The lumps are about half the size as they were in one day. Today is day 2 of letro. It shouldn’t take long to rid this shit and maintain. I know it’s going to effect my lifts and gains but what ever. Ill keep this shit under control until I can get under the knife.
The moral of the story for newbs reading this is :
Starting this cycle I was conscious about my gyno and made sure I had everything on hand. Arimidex AI to keep estro and gyno symptoms at bay! Letro in case of emergency, Aromasin and Nolva plenty to go around.
DO NOT ROLL THE DICE ON YOUR BODY. If you’re going to cycle, do it fucking right.
Anyway. I’m still the same size in lbs as last week. My strength is the same. My endurance is insane. I was at the gym for like 1.5 hours and it felt like I was just warming up.
Ive been pinning my hCG in my lower belly SQ. I keep bruising when I do it. It doesn’t hurt or anything and I’ve tried slowing down while injecting. Anyone have any comments or suggestions on that?
I’m also wondering if my adex is underdosed? It’s chem liquid. Ive used their things before as have my buddies. Although, I have heard people talk about their adex being fishy.
I’m doing .25mg/ed right now. As opposed to .5mg/eod - I figure its the same since the half life is 48 hours? Am I wrong in this calculation?
Letro is being tapered up to 2.5mg/ed until gyno is gone - I’m kind of worried about rebound if my adex is underdosed or bunk. Should I swap to my Aromasin or fuck the adex and just stick to my letro until PCT?
Till next time
Hey squige, interesting story. Im glad I have not experienced any of these side effects myself, im glad you are ableto keep it under control this time around. As for your Hcg I did some studying, and apparently it is ok to inject it IM as well, you can even pin it together with your test. Do some reading up and see what you think, I think I’d prefer that myself, the bruising would annoy me quickly.
I personally have yet to see a side effect beside feeling very lethargic when I was taking to much adex. Do you plan on cycling/ TRT the rest of your life?
[quote]Lift-up-put-down wrote:
Hey squige, interesting story. Im glad I have not experienced any of these side effects myself, im glad you are ableto keep it under control this time around. As for your Hcg I did some studying, and apparently it is ok to inject it IM as well, you can even pin it together with your test. Do some reading up and see what you think, I think I’d prefer that myself, the bruising would annoy me quickly.
I personally have yet to see a side effect beside feeling very lethargic when I was taking to much adex. Do you plan on cycling/ TRT the rest of your life? [/quote]
Yeah, I know you can inject them together but I like to keep it as simple as possible when I IM inject.
Yeah, I’ll probably cycle on and off into my thirties if I can recover well. Otherwise I’ll just trt b/c.
Also, If anyone can chime in on that letro/AI question. I’m going to be re-reading the gyno sticky and following posts for info.
EDIT: Just a quick edit - Staying on Letro until symptoms are gone and lowering dose to maintain until PCT.
On the bruising when injecting the hcg. I’m a diabetic and when I have pined in the past I found I bruised from either the needle being to dull or hitting a spot were blood would come out…not sure if its a small blood vessel or what but no worries from doing it. Does it bruise and does it feel like there is a hard lump…how many units or mls are u pinning at a time?
[quote]ljohnso8 wrote:
On the bruising when injecting the hcg. I’m a diabetic and when I have pined in the past I found I bruised from either the needle being to dull or hitting a spot were blood would come out…not sure if its a small blood vessel or what but no worries from doing it. Does it bruise and does it feel like there is a hard lump…how many units or mls are u pinning at a time?[/quote]
It’s .5mL. It doesn’t hurt, I just noticed it in the gym when my shirt came up during some chins.
I think it was just an issue with tissue pressure. I’ve been injecting it slower to allow movement of tissue and fluid and it hasn’t been bruising.
Small update:
Tapering down on the letro now this week and maintaining until pct*. I really think that Adex was bunk…or maybe I just need higher AI maintenance or even possible that I just need more AI because of hCG? I dropped 4lbs since I started the letro and my assumption is this is water from decrease in estrogen. Kind of pisses me off but whatever. Its better than having man tits and im still up 17lbs(as of last weigh in) from the start. Joints hurt too. Knees, wrists, and fingers mostly.
*The lumps are still there a bit but this is how it was last time as well. They didn’t fully go away until after I was off letro. Anyone have any experience with that? I’m not worried about it just curious. No soreness and they are not tender at all.
Alright! Here is blood work. I understand it except LH and FSH.
The e2 makes sense because of Letro, and I tapered down this week so I’m thinking it should be up a little bit and within normal ranges without any gyno symptoms.
My weight is up a total of 20lbs from the start. My lifts are still going great even with the low estro.
Short update…sorry mates. Will update again later!
What do you not understand about lh and fsh? You’re on cycle, of course they are going to be low
There’s a guy who once state that running hcg during the end of the cycle and not during the pct is one of the stupidest things he had ever heard of. Maybe you’ve heard of him, his names Rich Piena.
Hcg raises your bodies test and "tells your body “produce more test”.
Gas makes it for your body and tells your body “stop making test”
Think of it. Why would you do both.
[quote]eatliftsleep wrote:
What do you not understand about lh and fsh? You’re on cycle, of course they are going to be low[/quote]
That was my assumption. However it is my first rodeo, I don’t like say things without being sure. I am not aware of others “normal-midcycle bloodwork levels” - if you will. That was all. Thanks for the revision and support of my assumption.
[quote]BBingCowboy wrote:
There’s a guy who once state that running hcg during the end of the cycle and not during the pct is one of the stupidest things he had ever heard of. Maybe you’ve heard of him, his names Rich Piena.
Hcg raises your bodies test and "tells your body “produce more test”.
Gas makes it for your body and tells your body “stop making test”
Think of it. Why would you do both.[/quote]
I have not heard of him. The reasoning to run hCG during cycle and not PCT is that it is counter-productive to HPTA recovery during PCT. Which is the whole point of PCT…To recover. hCG mimics LH producing test and keeping your nuts nice and full.
Also: What do you mean why would I do both? I’m assuming you mean during cycle and during pct. I never said I was.
I think BBingCowboy means why would you do both T and hCG at the same time… I agree with you to take during cycle so the boys stay hanging and recovery is easier. There is probably a more scientific answer.
I’m sure you put together the low E is reason for sore joints. Were your joints sore while your E was high and your nipples were flaring up?
How long had you been on the Letro before getting blood work? Seems Letro worked pretty fast? Too bad now seems you are in a dilemma, trying to decrease nipple lumps in turn increases the joint soreness. Water weight loss I feel isn’t such a big deal, its water. I HATE joint sorness… I guess I HATE nipple lumps too. Yikes! Best of luck bud! Please give an update.
[quote]Grasshoper777 wrote:
I think BBingCowboy means why would you do both T and hCG at the same time… I agree with you to take during cycle so the boys stay hanging and recovery is easier. There is probably a more scientific answer.
I’m sure you put together the low E is reason for sore joints. Were your joints sore while your E was high and your nipples were flaring up?
How long had you been on the Letro before getting blood work? Seems Letro worked pretty fast? Too bad now seems you are in a dilemma, trying to decrease nipple lumps in turn increases the joint soreness. Water weight loss I feel isn’t such a big deal, its water. I HATE joint sorness… I guess I HATE nipple lumps too. Yikes! Best of luck bud! Please give an update.[/quote]
Taking hCG while on test not only keeps your boys working, it increases your overall levels of Test. It mimics LH which tells the testes to produce testosterone. Not only are you prepping yourself for a faster recovery, you’re literally getting more test - natural and exogenous. (I don’t know how effective hCG is at doing this. However, that’s the theory. Physiologically it makes sense.)
Joints were not sore when my E was high. They felt a bit a “crampy” during the day. If that make sense? They are definitely sore now and since I have been at .25 ED they seem to be getting better.
Yeah, I know ive heard people say letro takes 30-60days to stabilize in blood; That’s bullshit.
I was on letro 2 weeks, maybe a bit a longer, when I had my labs drawn. I had already been tapering down since the gyno was gone. I was actually more concerned with how effective the letro was going to be. Which I why I did it as I was tapering down. If it were still a bit high I could titrate to effect to my best ability. I think my estro being so low as I was tapering is the best case scenario - Gyno is gone - e2 is low, however, now I can manage dosing effectively without risk of negative sides. As opposed to e2 still being high and having to demolish my estrogen without knowing how well the letro is working.
As for the lack of water, I dont mind that at all. Like you said, who cares; water is water.
My weight gain is pretty stagnant right now(I attribute that to low e2/water), however I feel like I am looking bigger and more defined for sure. My midsection is looking really tight as well. Which makes me wonder if it just the lack of water, or If i am losing bodyfat% as well.
My last weigh in this week was 205. Which is still 20lbs from my starting weight.
Weights are still moving up but not as drastically as the past few weeks and this week I feel as if my drive and intensity was shit.