18Y/O on TRT. Brain Fog, Low Libido, Fatigue. Could Use Some Help

Pharma TRT
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Really great. After learning my cortisol was low, I learned everything I could about what could be causing that, my family has no history of Addison’s disease or any hormonal imbalances for that matter.

I found out I was overtraining. I asked about this in a new thread:
Deload Questions / Low Cortisol + Adrenal Fatigue? - #13 by beak118
and took Christian T’s advice, and have been feeling the best ever since starting TRT. I was severely overtrained, years of heavy lifting 6-7 days a week + heavy stimulant usage was too much for my body to handle. I’m just now getting back in the gym, averaging 3-4 days a week and much lower intensity. I hope to increase intensity after a little longer of recovery while keeping training days to 3-4x a week. Haven’t gotten bloodwork to confirm anything yet, but my libido is MUCH stronger, my brain fog is MUCH weaker, and my mood is WAY better. I don’t have time to check your thread and see your history w labs right now, but I definetely recommend getting cortisol values checked. I firmly believe that adrenal insufficiency was the root of ALL of my issues. I will keep this thread updated. Thanks again to everyone who has helped me.

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Actually I have one source wherein proviron is actually cheaper… but it’s typically the other way round

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Interesting. The masteron has been giving me the same positive effects as proviron, but also some unwanted side effects of body hair growth and acne. Nothing too bad, but it’d be wrong to not acknowledge those side effects because they are their. I’m going to play around with maybe lowering masteron dosage and using a low dose of proviron as well. Maybe 100mg masteron weekly with 25mg proviron daily.

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You think mast is bad for body hair??? I’m aware it’s all individualistc in nature… but for me the absolute WORST thing in term of body hair accrual has been testosterone in any dose above 150mg/wk… blows 200mg mast out of the water in this retrospect (acne is worse on test too). I’ve tried a few things and nothing I’ve used (microdose aside from dbol… that was a regular dose at 20mg for a bit over 2 wks) comes close to the sheer androgencity of test

How much mast are you taking with you’re trt

If it’s like 200mg test 200mg mast it’s no longer really trt, it’s a glorified cruise/mild cycle. Mast mg/mg is somewhat weaker than testosterone, less body weight will be put on mg/mg too, but all weight accrued (provided diet and training is on point) will be pure lean mass, no bs glycogen retention esque gains

Moniter lipids while on

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Are you still doing thyroid mate? Did you manage to move up to 2-3 grains?

As mentioned in my varicocele theory thread, I strongly believe varicocele is associated with adrenal dysfunction (not just testicular/sex hormones). So our cortisol theories may be right…

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200mg Mast E UGL and 200 mg Test cyp pharma. Somewhat of a glorified cycle, but I think my masteron is underdosed a little. 200mg of Mast P from a different lab was a lot more noticeable, but then I’ve also heard a lot of people claim the prop ester is more effective with mast for some reason. Getting lipids checked is a good idea and I’ll definetely do so after a while.

Guess it really is individualistic in nature. I think it has to do with the amount of the 5ar enzyme that the body naturally produces (T->DHT conversion). I think back to before I started any PED use and I don’t think I had a high propensity to convert T-DHT, so I never had any real DHT sides with a higher dose of test. Got a lot of estrogen sides at first though.

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Up to 3.5 grains a day (2.5 am 1 pm). I wouldn’t be suprised if a varicocele is associated with it, but I haven’t noticed it much lately. It was much more noticeabley larger pre-TRT while on PEDs. Regardless, taking more rest from the gym has made a HUGE difference. Lilbido is much stronger and I’m actually much stronger in the gym now, since my CNS gets some real rest in betweeen training.

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Are you on Nature-Throid or Armour? I assume ED issues have improved greatly as well?

Really glad to hear you are making progress btw!

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Thanks! Me too, quality of life is great. I’m on Nature-Throid 3.5 grains. 2.5 am, 1 pm.

ED is not an issue anymore.

My experimenting with proviron/masteron (listed in chronological order) has led me here:

Masteron: no ED, very motivated career/gym wise. Less empathy, but not to the point of being a dick. Lost a lot of size, most likely from less water being retained. Could also be just since I’m working out much less frequently now. Sex-wise, my libido was through the roof. I could have sex, then be ready for round 2 only 5-10 minutes afterwards.

Proviron+Masteron: the two compounds together was too much. Could feel my estrogen gradually tank. I became very aggressive. No side effects were noticeable other than this aggressive mood and the fatigue associated with low estrogen. May attempt mixing the two with lower doses later, but for now I’m feeling good where I’m at right now.

Proviron: currently on 50mg Proviron ED. Mood boost is there, but I don’t lose any sense of empathy like I did on masteron. Mood is lifted. Sex-wise, I can have sex multiple times per day, but the refractory period is longer than on masteron. Erections are much stronger and lasting however. The stronger, lasting erections have made 1 session enough for me and my gf and is the reason I’m sticking with proviron over masteron. I really liked how I felt on masteron, though, and I hope I can figure out how to run both at a lower dose safely.

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Good to hear an update from you mate! Curiously, have you looked into supplementing hydrocortisone, since I believe adrenals get messed up by varicocele and may result in thyroid issues like we experienced (cortisol is required for thyroid function). There are a few studies on pubmed regarding this.

I’ve heard you can safely take 30mcg per day of HC without shutting down adrenals and it gives you better response to stress, etc.

My main questions to you would be this:

  1. Do you feel like you would have a libido on testosterone alone and thyroid, and be able to perform, etc?

  2. What TRT are you running at the minute and is it a mini-cycle? haha

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Glad you asked. I have an idea that I think I may try that I’ll talk about at the end of this post.

My doc wrote me a script for HC right away when my labs came back and showed low cortisol. I still don’t know too much about it, but I really wanted to shy away from taking more meds that I might become dependent on for life. I’ve read that HC can be safe at low doses regarding adrenal suppression, but I still wanted to exhaust every other option for fixing my adrenal insufficiency (i.e. stop overtraining) before trying HC.

To answer your questions:

  1. I was on T + NDT + HCG only for sometime before starting the DHT derivatives and I had good erectile function, however, my mood was poorer and my libido was not quite where I wanted it. This could be a result of my cortisol deficiency.
  2. I think you could consider my TRT a mini-cycle. Lots of drugs. I want to test my TT and FT before making any changes, but I’m considering a serious lowering of my t-dose soon that I’ll explain later. Right now:
    32mg Testosterone ED subq
    250iu HCG EOD subq
    75 (just upped from 50)mg ED proviron (50am, 25pm)
    3.5 grain NDT (2.5am, 1 pm)

As you can see, my test levels should be through the roof. You would think I’d be feeling great, but that is still not the case. Even after severely overhauling my training regime, I still feel overtrained, as if my cortisol has not recovered. Freeing up more test using proviron has helped my libido somewhat (not to the degree i was hoping for), but has almost made my energy throughout the day worse.

Lots of guys have mentioned on this forum that they feel better, libido+energy+brainfog, on lower doses of testosterone. For instance, the guy in this thread:

I’d remembered reading that testosterone inhibts cortisol release. This is why Bodybuilders on grams of gear can train hard, every day, for many hours. Way more training volume while they are enhanced. I think my FT may be TOO high, using way too much test and proviron, that it is inhibiting my cortisol release and slowing my adrenals recovery from overtraining.

If I’ve interpreted this study correctly, than this should prove my point: Testosterone Suppression of CRH-stimulated Cortisol in Men - PMC

So I’m thinking of backing off my testosterone dose to ~20mg daily. I’m scared to do this since I’ve attributed any wellness on my therapy so far to my high dose, but I can’t imagine this would worsen things. Do you have any thoughts?

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I have a theory regarding our situation, which may or may not be of interest to you. Because the left testicle is typically impacted by varicocele I believe it impacts more so the adrenal gland on that side (due to the fact it’s connected directly to it from a vascular perspective) and results in cortisol (and other adrenal hormone) disruption to the body. When I first seen a doctor regarding my situation, he wanted to treat me with HC and thyroid hormone at the same time because he felt like this was the root of the issue. After starting TRT and seeing little benefit, I think this is actually true.

Starting HC at around 30mg is pretty safe (all round). Check out this video for reference (a world leading doctor in the field).

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No it’s not. Corticosteroid administration even at low dose is associated with a moderate risk of developing adrenal insufficiency. Literally hundreds of studies have demonstrated this.

From the most review:

Systemic glucocorticoid therapy and adrenal insufficiency in adults: A systematic review

Results

Overall, 73 eligible studies were identified out of 673 screened. The percentage of patients with AI ranged from 0% to 100% with a median (IQR) = 37.4% (13–63%). Studies were small—median (IQR) group size 16 (9–38)—and heterogeneous in methodology. AI persisted in 15% of patients retested 3 years after glucocorticoid withdrawal. Results remained widely distributed following stratification. AI was demonstrated at <5 mg prednisolone equivalent dose/day (=25 mg cortisol) <4 weeks of exposure, cumulative dose <0.5 g, and following tapered withdrawal.

There is evidence of AI following low doses and short durations of glucocorticoids. Hence, clinicians should be vigilant for adrenal insufficiency at all degrees of glucocorticoid exposure.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/100/6/2171/2829580

Your expert is a self proclaimed expert

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@beak118
There’s no PM here but if you need help my email is in my bio. (in response to your post in the credentials thread)

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Thank you, but we are both already anonymous on the forum. I’d really appreciate some help though.

Currently, I’m prescribed 250mg T Cyp weekly, 450iu HCG, 2.5 am 1 pm grain(s) NDT, 10mg HC AM 5 mg HC PM

I was taking 30mg daily T cyp, 84 mg Masteron enanthate E3D, 2.5 AM 1PM grains NDT, 10 mg HC AM 5 mg HC PM

At those doses, the only symptoms I experienced was fatigue and brain fog. HC helped with both, but the symptoms were still there. HC diminished my libido a little bit, but I had plenty of libido to spare to begin with so the trade-off for a better quality of life is worth it.

I’m now, as of two days ago, taking 20mg daily T Cyp, 56 mg Mast enanthate E3D, 2 AM grains and 1 PM grain NDT, and 10 mg HC AM 5 mg HC PM.

My hopes in lowering my T, Mast, and NDT doses is to help my adrenals recover some more, as I’ve read about T suppressing cortisol release. My hopes in taking the Hydrocortisone (started 2 weeks ago) is to give my adrenals a break to recover. Within days after I started taking it, getting out of bed in the morning was easier before taking my AM dose, indicating to me that my adrenals are actually recovering and the future is hopeful. Then, after I would dose HC, I would have consistent energy throughout the day, not like a stimulant, just a healthy regular energy level that removed the need to nap all day.

I’m very aware of the possible dependence with HC, I actually put off starting it for months after my doc recommended it. I finally started it because I was sick of my fatigue and brain fog, I was becoming such a spacey person, which I’ve never been.

My plan is to stick at this reduced T dose long-term and continue HC therapy for another month or two then to taper off the HC and gauge from there how my adrenals are doing. If I have no more symptoms, then great. If I continue to have symptoms, I will reduce my T dose further and reevaluate after some weeks. If that doesn’t help, I’m willing to give up on my adrenal recovery and become dependent on HC. I hate the fatigue and fogginess my low cortisol has caused and I’m sick of trying to be inactive and rest to allow my adrenals to recover.

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Not sure what HC is but long term Masterson use can’t be great for you. As much shit as you’re taking it’s going to be hard to figure out what is causing what.

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Exactly. Adrenal shutdown works the same fucking way as nuts shutdown. Once teeny weeny prednisone a day is all it takes to shut down the adrenals. And here’s the worst part: there is no “PCT” equivalent to kickstart the adrenals after tapering off prednisone\HC. And unlike T replacement which is completely safe, lifelong prednisone in a no no. HC may be safer.

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I would just do 2am and 2pm. Make sure it’s armour thyroid. From a good pharmacy. Chew it up on an empty stomach wait 30-1 hour to eat or drink anything.

You simply feel awake. It’s not a caffeine buzz and it takes time for trt, thyroid to work together. Although thyroid will zap fatigue almost immediately.

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Update:

Stopped hydrocortisone about a week ago. No taper, just stopped. Getting my sleeping schedule healthier and more aligned with a natural circadian rhythm has helped with energy and brain fog.

@enackers have you ever tried nature-throid brand NDT? I’ll give Armour Thyroid a shot, but curious if there is a noticeable difference.

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Armor thyroid compounded by MedQuest is the best. If NT is desiccated it will work, but not sure of the formula and potency of dose.

I get one compounded so it is not the brand name , it’s just the same ratio of t4/t3. That’s what I mean by compounded. The brand AT I hear has gone downhill. They added a filler that has made a mess with potency and people complaining about it over the years.

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