@enackers Thinking about dropping DHEA. I didn’t notice much benefit, and recently got some of the worst brain fog. Can’t think clearly, just started 2 days ago around the 1 week mark of me starting DHEA supplementation. If you think the brain fog will stop after a while and recommend I hang in there, let me know, but I think its time to stop the DHEA. I think that the problems I was hoping to resolve through DHEA supplementation will be fixed if I can get my NDT dose up. I appreciate the input though, I found some low DHEA symptoms online and they seemed to align with mine, so it was definetely worth a shot.
My doc won’t budge based on me asking, but if I get labs that show its “safe to do so”, I can prob up my script. Any input on which values I should get? He’ll probably only want TSH, T4, T3, but for my own sake maybe should I add fT4, fT3, RT3, Cortisol, or others? I’ve never gotten cortisol tested.
I would say to ignore the numbers and go based off symptoms. Everyone on this forum agrees that numbers mean nothing if your symptomatic. Lots of guys are in the normal testosterone range but suffer low-T symptoms. Do a lot of research on high estrogen vs low estrogen symptoms (they are very similar) and try to find out which you’re experiencing. I’ve experienced both, they both suck. Both include some form of erectile dysfunction and other shitty things. Some of the symptoms that really stuck out and are different from the counterparts that I noticed were.
High E: water retention (bloating in face mostly for me), nipple sensitivity, increased emotions (feeling like you could cry), balls come up (as if it were cold outside)
Low E: low penile sensitivity, extreme fatigue and brain fog, no desire for social interaction,
73 is pretty high though, so I’d lean towards the high end if I were you. I would lower T dose, instead of starting AI, though. I think 900 is pretty high TT already. Stopping AI really helped me. Have you gotten thyroid labs? This process of fixing my thyroid has been really eye-opening.
Brain fog from DHEA has stopped since stopping supplementation. It really just returned to how it was before, but its much better.
I’ve ordered research chemical T3 just to try it out. I’m just gonna dose it at like 100mcg to shock my thyroid into working. Kidding. I plan on starting on 5mcg AM and PM (10mcg total) daily with my NDT and tapering up until my symptoms resolve or new, negative symptoms arise. I’m aware that this could be dosed improperly, and I know that this is not a long term solution. I trust that there will at least be SOME T3 in there, since the Cialis I’ve been taking from the same company works (According to the bottle, I dose 5mg daily, will up to 10mg some nights).
My goal is to just see if I can benefit from T3. If I notice benefits, I’ll talk to my doctor about adding cytomel. If this is the case, I may just be honest with him and say that I bought T3 online to try it out and now I want a prescription for it. If I do feel good on the T3, I’ll get thyroid labs done to see where my levels are at when I feel good. That should account for switching from research T3 to properly dosed pharma T3.
Things I’m looking for:
-less brain fog
-less fatigue
-better libido (Its weird, I have an instinctual drive to talk to women and get them to bed, but I don’t really feel any desire, that strong libido you get)
-Increased erectile function (I still lean pretty heavily on Cialis to stay hard. I don’t really lose erections during intimacy, but they definetely weaken quickly if there is any pause in physical stimulation)
-feeling in testicles/increase in size (everytime I started Iodine replenishment doses, I got a weird tingle in my balls. I think it was the additional thyroid hormones, since I’ve read that they play a huge role in sperm count and testicular function. It really felt like my balls were growing)
The T3 will ship in 2-3 days. I’ll check in with another update after some doses.
I feel you are overlooking something important here - free t4. Because the concentration of T3 is higher in NDT than T4, most people end up with lower than normal ft4 and optimal free t3. In guys, free t4 is really important.
As mentioned prior, when I had no issues, my free t4 was top end of the scale, as my symptoms progressed (over a 5 week period due to a varicocele forming) all the symptoms of low libido/ED started. My free t4 dropped to almost half the value, but my free t3 remained the same. I started getting dry skin, low libido and other issues. Strangely I didn’t really have “brain fog” (the opposite in-fact - almost photographic memory, though thats always been the case for me).
I posted a study prior that showed free t3 was “normal” (around my range) on studies but participants have subclinical hypothyroidism. When free T4 was raised, all the ED issues resolved.
I will find the studies and post them here when I get some free time. I would say possibilty a combination of NDT + T4 (low dosage) may be the solution. Curious to hear how you do with the free t3.
ok between @anon8512651 and @beak118 I swear every tie either of you post something I swear you two are experiencing the same exact symptoms as me.
So this is except what i have been taking. I take HCG mono 500 I.U EOD along with 250mg of DIM on the Days of the shots. Also I take cytomel 10mcg in the am and 10mcg in the PM.
This is exactly what I feel rite now along with really low sensitivity. I really need help figuring this out I need someone to help me get over this hump. As far as energy ever since I started the Cytomel Ive noticed my energy is way better along with my brain fog, So has everyone else my family aways tell me how they have noticed way more energy in me. But here’s the thing when it comes to sex Im still struggling like you said if I’m not constantly stimulates I lose the erection. I honestly believe its from having low sensitivity. You know what I mean like the shock feeling you get in your penis that sends that feeling through out your bod. So mine just feels like rubber and I don’t know why and still can’t figure out what causing it.
Now this is one of my biggest issues for some reason the skin down there is staring to change. For some reason my skin down there is supper dry like really really dry and I don’t know why. Regardless if I use lotions or anything it always still ends up dry and i believe this is contributing too my sensitivity problems.
Here are my current labs. Please if anyone can help please chime in
We are on all on the same boat man, and it sucks! We will figure it out collectively before it sinks though…It’s great to have people show lab work and work together.
Based on your labs, it’s pretty obvious (to me anyway) what’s going on. Your E2 is too high and your FT4 is too low. The balance between E2 and thyroid hormone is important, because high estrogen can lead to a combination of issues including inflammation (which increases rT3 in some instances) and also decreases the effectiveness of thyroid hormone.
As I mentioned prior in my responses, FT4 is important for mens health (and erectilie function - as shown in studies). Your FT4 is roughly the same as mine (if not lower) which will be the result in issues with dry skin on your junk, along with other issues like ED/low libido.
I am actually seriously questioning if T4 only meds are the best solution for men, since they tend to have less conversion issues than women. I actually believe (in part) that FT4 may be more important for mens sexual health than previously thought.
I should also point out that I had a lot of skin changes as well in that department, including irritation and scrotal skin changes.
As a side note, it would be interesting if the changes correlated with you either starting T3 meds or increasing dosages since that will result in your thyroid decreasing production further and thus further increases the issues you are experiencing (more than likely).
Ironically, the majority of guys I have spoken to doing well (sexually) on thyroid were on 175-200mcg of T4 only.
I don’t know if im wrong or not but don’t we want the RT3 high and the T4 low???
Im taking cytomel 20mcg daily won’t that raise the T3 and lower the T4???
So do you bilge that the cytomel is not goof for me??
I need more knowledge on this because my doctor put me on it?
I have a appoitment tommorw maybe I need to talk to him about being on T4 then instead of the cytomel. When I first started the Cytomel I was feeling really goof for the longest time but now something is happening like Im staring to go back to having issues aging. Im just so tired of this I have been battling this for 2 years I just want to get something that will work and just stay on it
Real quick, you don’t want RT3 high. I have no comment on T4 vs T3, @anon8512651 seems very confident that T4 is an important hormone. I don’t know which is more important in general or for sexual function. But RT3 and T3 are different, RT3 will bind to T3 receptors without activating them, making it impossible for T3 to bind to those receptors, causing problems. I don’t know too much about this, but your RT3 doesn’t look too high to raise any flags.
I agree with @anon8512651 that your E2 looks high. E2 really helped me with sensitivity, but too much gave me bad erectile dysfunction. I don’t recommend adding an AI, and instead, optimizing thyroid hormones. When I started Natural Dessicated Thyroid medication, I did not need AI anymore. I believe that Thyroid’s role in metabolism also has something to do with sex hormone metabolism (T to E conversion) and having more thyroid hormones enabled my body to metabolize the same testosterone dosage better to create a more optimal T:E ratio.
Do you notice water retention in your face? Take a look at a picture of you from a while ago (maybe before TRT) and compare with a picture of you taken today. Does your face look plumper today? For me this meant high E2.
Do your balls hang normally? Or are they always tucked up (high E2 for me)? Are you emotional (high E2 for me)? Social anxiety (high e2 for me)? Again, I say “high E2 for me” because these are symptoms that I experienced, everyone is different though. Don’t make any moves based on labs alone, base it off symptoms as well. But you are having symptoms and your E2 looks high, so something, be it estrogen or not, is wrong. My bet is that its estrogen
This study is of particular interest in relation to FT4:
Moreover this study found that ED patients with SCH had relatively lower FT4 concentrations than the controls with euthyroidism, although serum FT4 levels of all those males were within the reference range. Serum levels of FT4 are correlated with erectile dysfunction and L-thyroxine treatment restores erectile function.
I got the research chemical T3. tried a 5mcg dose, felt nothing. Next day tried a 10mcg dose, felt nothing. Think the T3 is either bunk, or the concentration in the liquid is just so low that who knows how much each mL will contain. As in, 100mcg x 30ml, there is still 3000 mcg of T3 in there, but one day, a .1ml dropper will hold 3 mcg and the next, a .1ml dropper may take out 200mcg. I’ve heard that a lot of guys (steroid users) don’t use oral liquids with concentrations under like 1-5 MILLIgrams, because the dosing is too innacurate. I’d be scared to overdose T3 one day, and am discarding the Research chemical T3. It was worth a try tho.
For now, I’m going to work on getting a script for more NDT. My sexual function is pretty good right now. Libido isn’t where I want it, but with Cialis, I can muster sex multiple times in the night. HCG + Cialis makes the sex enjoyable and orgasm has good intensity. I want the more NDT to help with brain fog and fatigue. I can feel a sex drive, but its not a very clear desire like I think it should be. I believe that fixing my brain fog (via more thyroid hormones) will clear this up. Hopefully, I will be good to go from there.
Many thyroid websites say to keep raising dose until symptoms stop arising. Each time you raise your dose of thyroid meds, you suppress your thyroid further. This is why I feel good upon raising my dose for 1-2 weeks, and then Hypo symptoms begin to return.
I’m not going to explore issues like cortisol until I have thyroid lab numbers that look good (and only if I still have symptoms). I want to get TSH down to 1 with solid T4 and T3 numbers before I evaluate if I still have any symptoms. I do think I’m experiencing high-cortisol symptoms from adrenal fatigue (rounding face (not bloat), purple stretch marks, brain fog, I have been stressed with school and work lately and take caffeine daily), however I think optimizing my thyroid hormone levels should fix this problem.
I’ve emailed my doctor about raising my NDT dose further and will keep this thread posted!
Personal question here man, but do you get random wood and can you get it from thoughts alone or do you still require stimulation? Once that returns for me, I will know I am “dialled in” in relation to libido.
First, to my knowledge, this is the best my thyroid numbers have looked this year.
More importantly, what I think could be causing my fatigue/brain fog symptoms, my cortisol is low. Below the reference range. I’ve emailed my doctor these to see what he says and am wondering what you guys might think about this and what I should do?
I take a caffeine supplement pre workout that equates to 200mg, and I workout almost everyday, taking 1 day off every 2 weeks or so. These r the only things I can think of that might be causing low cortisol. I sleep 7-9 hours every night, but sometimes this could mean from 2am-11am, so not the most aligned with the day night cycle, maybe that has something to do with this?
Any advice is appreciated. Quitting caffeine Or working out less would really suck because I love both, but if it’s necessary for my health then I wouldn’t hesitate to do so.
Edit: the cortisol test was a blood test and only an AM test. I can get labs if needed, but I feel the same way (fatigued and foggy) from waking up til going to bed symptom-wise. I’d imagine if I did the 4x saliva tests throughout the day, they’d all show the same low cortisol
My bad, never responded. Stimulation is still key for me. I think it has to do with my brain fog. I just physically cannot imagine and focus on sexual scenarios clearly or vividly enough to get erections.
If blood was drawn within 1 to 2 hours after awakening the cortisol levels are suggestive for adrenal insufficiency.
You should get also tested for ACTH.
