180mg a Week Still Not Cutting It

Pharma TRT
1

Hi Everyone,

I am new to Testosterone Nation and made an account to get some input on my situation as well as answer others questions down the line.

Some stats for you all:
24 years old
6’1
220lbs
Very Active (weight train 5 days a week, play basketball 3-4 days a week)
9-10% body fat
Very healthy diet high in monounsaturated fats, lean proteins, fruits, vegetables, oatmeal

I have been on TRT for a year now because I had three repeating blood tests under 300 total testosterone in the span of 3 months. This is due to naturally occuring hyper-cortisolism (which I have been evaluated by over 5 endocrinologists that all say its naturally occuring and not a secondary issue).

My bloodwork was 275, 299, and 288 total testosterone on a ref range (300-1200) with everything else in normal ranges. Free testosterone was 9.8 (10-30). I am 24 years old so it may seen odd that it is so low but endocrinologists diagnosed that it was from my high cortisol which tested several times above 30 on a ref range 2-17.

The doctor put me on 150mg testosterone with 250 iu 2 times a week of HCG and .25 mg of arimidex EOD. After 6 weeks this raised my test to 540 with estrodial at 10 cortisol 20 ref range (2-17) (obviously I am very responsive to arimidex. I felt terrible the whole time because of the low estrogen.

We bumped my dose to 160mg testosterone cyp 1 time a week plus same HCG dosage (because I have to drive far to get the injections, they don’t let me take it home other wise I would take 2x a week). I only took .25mg arimidex 2 times a week on this and blood work came back total testosterone 570 estrodial 18, cortisol 17 ref range 2-17

I know the sweet spot for estrogen is around 22 so I cut back even more.

My protocall for the last 4 months has been 250 IU HCG EOD and 1 shot of 180mg testosterone cyp a week with .20mg arimidex 2 times a week.
My labs came back today:

Total Testosterone: 641
Estrodial: 21
Free testosterone 20 reference range 9-30
Cortisol: 9 ref range (2-17) Treatment really works for high cortisol!!!

My doctor is willing to bump up to 200mg a week because my levels still aren’t optimal.

Now for my questions:

Why is it that my body is so unresponsive to treatment?? I do recognize that I am being tested 7 days after my last injection so I know that there initial spikes and it probably dips quite substantially by the 7th day.

Is my exercise metabolizing a lot of the testosterone??

Additionally, I worry about blood lipid levels and have read the higher doses of testosterone you take the more it can mess up you blood lipids and even collagen synthesis. I am hoping that this doesn’t apply to the dose and it applies more so to the level that the dose takes your blood work.

Thanks for the support everyone, I can’t wait to hear some input. I have been reading this site for a long time and see that everyone is very knowledgable!

2

Just saw the “new guys sticky”

I had a full panel test done that was evaluated by more than 5 endos where everything else besides cortisol and test came back perfect. Please assume all blood work is good besides these because I don’t have access to the test right now

3

You are a hyper exceater of T.

We see this sometimes. Wondering is shbg may be low but that’s just a thought

Move to subcutaneous injections and inject eod or twice a week by deviding your dose into two or three parts.

This may help alot.

Read the protocol for injections sticky E2 is low enough do not use an AI unless you introduce hcg and E2 is elevated.

Try and get your labs

4

That’s very interesting IW84aces. Thanks for the input. I have never heard of doing subcutaneous testosterone injections. I will give it a shot (no pun intended)

What do you mean by hyper-exeater?

Regarding estrogen, I have had minor joint pain(which I am assuming is from low e2)

Additionally so you have any input regarding collagen synthesis and lipid levels? Am I fine as long as levels aren’t supra physiological or is it actually based on the dose? I have read above 200mg a week crushed collagen synthesis and hdl levels but if my total t on 200mg a week was only 800 would that apply to me?

Once again, thanks for the help

5

I wouldn’t say your E2 is so low that its causing joint pain. Optimal is said to be 22 but mine was 32 and felt no difference between that and 20.

I really don’t think what your saying is a big issue and many hyperexcreaters before you have been on 200 mg per week.

6

I am also a hyper x of test, am super sensitive to adex and have low shbg.

I switched to aromasin, which doesn’t give me that awful feeling that adex does…kinder on lipids as well.
Have tried t-cyp and enth IM and SUB-Q from daily to once per two weeks and everything in between
With doses ranging from 75-350mg per week…very marginal results because of the issues above.

Walked around for a year wondering how others got these great results, yet they didn’t happen to me.
If you google TRT and low SHBG, you will find a lot of guys in the same boat.

It wasn’t until I switched to Test Prop that everything worked for me.

I buy mine from an underground source, but I have heard that some compound pharmacies will make it
with a script. If your doctor is willing, give it a shot…it made all the difference in the world for me.

Good Luck.

7

Thanks guys! I appreciate the support

8

You will likely “feel” better with smaller, more frequent T injections. Less peaks and valleys = more “natural” feeling. Speak to your doctor about this. Smaller, more frequent injections will also help with T>E2 conversion. The joing pain was from low E2. You may be an AI over-responder - you backed the dose down which is good. Keep in mind that E2=22 is ideal for most guys, but you could vary to either side. I tend to run a little under that (generally in the teens) and feel good there.

Hyper excreter means you metabolize the T faster than the average guy, so you’ll need a higher dose or more frequent injections. Switching to sub cutaneous (SQ) versus intra-muscular (IM) may help with this. Many guys report feeling better (myself included) after switching to SQ. It may take a few (several) weeks for levels to “even out” after switching. Plus, you’re not inducing muscle damage from repeated jabs with a lawn dart. Most TRT experts (Crisler etc) are now onboard with SQ injections.

It sounds like you have a good doctor, and they will likely work with you on the injections. Print off the info in the stickies and let them have a look at it. You have a good protocol going - T, HCG, AI - stick with it. You just need to fine tune it a bit to get you where you want to be. Concerning your lipid profile - once your TRT protocol is dialed in, they should come in fine.

9

Awesome catfish, that is very helpful. Thank you

10

Hey James, It looks like you have your treatment dialed in quite well. Considering you are testing 7 days after your last injection I do not think your numbers are low at all. I have become a firm believer that numbers are not the “be all and end all” and should be used as a reference only. If your numbers are “in range” and you feel good that is what counts. Go by how well you feel and not the actual numbers. JMO.

11

At 180 mg and hcg he is low on the 7th day.

By splitting the dose he will lower t a little but to a steady level.

Also E2 would be lower

I think his peaks are to high and prolly somewhere around 1500

I was top of range at 125 and some get there at 100.