I got off the phone with the doc, my total t is 1700 and he wants me to lower my dose. I feel great and am building some excellent muscle. as soon as I get my lab results I will post them for feedback.
Does anyone know how high total t gets when you are on anabolics? I have read free t is more important than total t, and E2 is also super important. I have a AI so I am interested to see what the E2 is at with such a high total t.
Last question… . is your testosterone levels the main component of muscle building? (I am not talking about diet, sleep, training) I am just talking about your body. Is main the reason steroids work because they increase your testosterone to very high levels?
im not the most experienced person here but i ll give you my thoughts.
Would be good if you gave some more info about your self and read the stickies and post an appropriate thread with the necessary information so you can get the appropriate help. (read stickies)
Maybe you started TRT with 2 much of a high dose. Mistake in my opinion from your doctor because now you are bit spoiled because you are feeling great but will probably have to lower your dose at some point.
When you are on a steroid cycle 500-1000mg a week your levels go VERY high. Im not sure how high but my guess would be over 3000 total T.
Yes i believe free t is more important than total T but also your ratio of T to E matters. I think in order to calculate a correct reading of Free T you need to know your SHBG and Albumin and total T. Here is a calculator you can do that: issam.ch/freetesto.htm
If you continue to have a reading of 1700 of total t for a long period of time im guessing you might experience some side effects like high blood pressure and elevated hematocrit and hemoglobin. Also you will probably have high estradiol at some point. How long have been at that level? But everyone is different at the end of the day.
Regarding your last question i believe a lot of hormones and genetics come into play when you are talking about building muscle. But for sure testosterone is a very important part of the puzzle. Probably one of the most important parts.
Please provide some more info about yourself and read the stickies so we can help further.
Once again im not a very educated person in trt just giving my opinions based on what i know.
I just joined, But have been reading threads here for weeks, and Doing other research online for months. So hard to find good info, and find this site so helpful. That said, I don’t wanna ask a dumb question without reading the “stickies”… Perhaps it’s because I’m doing all this from my phone, but I can’t find the “new guy stickies” or any stickies. So first dumb question in my first post, what is, and how do I find the “stickies”??
I am not really needing any help. I read all the stickies, they are great! I was just interesting in talking t levels with people who have been on higher doses of T, blast and cruise, and using anabolics. The E2 was at 26 which is great news. I will stick with 1mg per week of arimidex. John, thanks for the info. This is something I am interested and like to talk about. I am dropping my dose down to 120mg per week of T. Thanks for the heads up on blood pressure and other bloodwork.
[quote]Max8950 wrote:
I am not really needing any help. I read all the stickies, they are great! I was just interesting in talking t levels with people who have been on higher doses of T, blast and cruise, and using anabolics. The E2 was at 26 which is great news. I will stick with 1mg per week of arimidex. John, thanks for the info. This is something I am interested and like to talk about. I am dropping my dose down to 120mg per week of T. Thanks for the heads up on blood pressure and other bloodwork. [/quote]
If your are dropping your t dose you are going to need to drop your arimidex dose as well. Crashing your e is no fun.
[quote]Max8950 wrote:
I am not really needing any help. I read all the stickies, they are great! I was just interesting in talking t levels with people who have been on higher doses of T, blast and cruise, and using anabolics. The E2 was at 26 which is great news. I will stick with 1mg per week of arimidex. John, thanks for the info. This is something I am interested and like to talk about. I am dropping my dose down to 120mg per week of T. Thanks for the heads up on blood pressure and other bloodwork. [/quote]
Hey,
No problem. Yea make sure you monitor E2 because it will probably drop when you drop your T dose.
Also John Crisler has some very good information about a lot of things regarding TRT. You can download his info here:
From what i was reading one of the most common problems people come across when on TRT is elevated hemoglobin and hematocrit. I guess that should be monitored frequently especially if you are planning on blasting and cruising. One solution to that is to donate blood frequently.
I talked to my doc and I am dropping my T dose so I can stay more in the 800-1000 range. I will keep an eye on my E2, check blood pressure, and donate blood. I am only two years into training so I am going to focus on
I finished reading the article VT posted. I cant believe that the guys in the study that got 600mg of test per week gained 72 lbs on their 1RM in 4 months without doing ANY strength training. With the exception of the lower HDL it looks like blast and cruise is good to go. More T = More Muscle. Does anyone know what the different between a GnRH agonist and a AI like Arimidex is? I take Arimidex 1 mg weekly to keep the E2 around 22. In the study they used a GnRH agonist I am guessing for the same purpose. What brand name would that be under. Only one person in the study stopped because of the side effects so it seems the GnRH agonist did its job. I just dont know what that medicine is called.
[quote]Max8950 wrote:
I finished reading the article VT posted. I cant believe that the guys in the study that got 600mg of test per week gained 72 lbs on their 1RM in 4 months without doing ANY strength training. With the exception of the lower HDL it looks like blast and cruise is good to go. More T = More Muscle. Does anyone know what the different between a GnRH agonist and a AI like Arimidex is? I take Arimidex 1 mg weekly to keep the E2 around 22. In the study they used a GnRH agonist I am guessing for the same purpose. What brand name would that be under. Only one person in the study stopped because of the side effects so it seems the GnRH agonist did its job. I just dont know what that medicine is called. [/quote]
Yeah the gains that they say were pretty retarded. I have known a lot of guys that have ran cycles, and I don’t know if any of them saw strength gains like that, so I’m not really sure how “trained” these guys were in the first place (although it says they did train…I dunno)
The GNRH antagonist was just to suppress all endogenous testosterone production to make sure any T in their systems came from the exogenous doses. Basically just to make sure LH = 0. I’m not real sure this was necessary except for the low dosage guys since their endogenous production should have been completely shutdown at a certain dose anyway (probably around 100 mg/week). You would not use this at all outside of academia.
I am surprised they didn’t see more side effects from high E2, which makes me think the recommendations for all this AI is a bit overblown perhaps for 20 week “cycles”. I know I personally feel better on an AI so I take it, but it may not be required especially when you are not “on” permanently.
Keep in mind that the figures are listed in kilograms, not pounds. That means the people in the 600mg group picked up 168lbs on their leg press and put on over 17lbs of muscle. That’s crazy.
I found it confusing that the 125mg group still added around 7lbs of muscle even though it only raised their testosterone levels by about 50. However I then remembered that they took the readings 7 days after the shot, so they were probably well above natural levels for most of the study.
I’ve been on TRT for 5-6 months now. I started at 200mg a week and reduced to 160mg per week about 3 months in. My diet is the same but I’ve actually cut my activity level down quite a bit because I injured my back. I’ve lost about 10lbs but my arms are bigger and I have more definition all over so I’ve definitely seen body changes. My personal results seem to mesh pretty well with this study.
I found it confusing that the 125mg group still added around 7lbs of muscle even though it only raised their testosterone levels by about 50. However I then remembered that they took the readings 7 days after the shot, so they were probably well above natural levels for most of the study.
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I don’t think “well above natural levels” is really the right terminology there. THe 125 mg group were probably at the top of the normal physiological range, which is NOT well above natural levels. 200 mg/week in divided doses kept me right at the top of the range 2 days after my shot, which is probably about the highest it got.
I found it confusing that the 125mg group still added around 7lbs of muscle even though it only raised their testosterone levels by about 50. However I then remembered that they took the readings 7 days after the shot, so they were probably well above natural levels for most of the study.
[/quote]
I don’t think “well above natural levels” is really the right terminology there. THe 125 mg group were probably at the top of the normal physiological range, which is NOT well above natural levels. 200 mg/week in divided doses kept me right at the top of the range 2 days after my shot, which is probably about the highest it got.
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You’re right; my bad. I meant well above their starting level, not above natural levels. At 160mg divided into 2 doses per week, my peak is about 1300 (slightly above range). I was thinking that the 125mg group probably was peaking around 800-900 (just a guess, obviously).