Both squared by Roman interpretation, of course. Not Puritan age America. For example, public bathing was common and morally accepted in Rome. It was not a foul against modesty to be nude in a bathhouse, juxtaposed to the puritan view you and others are expressing.
The Romans did live by specific codes of honor and morality, as has anyone, but definitions do not translate directly.
Here is an interesting article supporting your viewpoint, but addressing norm differentiation within the Roman moral code for accuracy. Limitations are discussed:
I agree with all points but would elaborate on the quotations that abuse and genuine predatory behavior within the industry should be policed out, as it should in any industry.
I donāt agree with Zecarlos sweeping projection that porn itself is inherently abusive and predatory.
Of course it is. A normal person, raised in a proper home, doesnāt do porn. Porn is just a poor decision by someone who has a history of making poor decisions. Porn producers are pimps. Real men help people, especially young people, they donāt take advantage of them.
Yeah, thereās a blurry line there, but consenting adults, etc., you know. Even a lot of modern workplaces are being called abusive now, so I donāt know how to address that claim.
And the fall of civilization thing sounds like the Pirates to Global Warming correlation. It zooms right past cause without looking back.
The whole thing reminds me of Ozzy Osborne in the early 80ās. Parent groups, Church groups, everybody with concern for the children showing up to protest his concerts acting like he was the worst thing in the world while their kids were out actually doing the drugs and having the sex that they were so worried about- because the parents were looking at and blaming the wrong things!
Agreed, but I think the main difference here is the accessibility to the extremes of sexuality. As was said earlier, we have access to more fetish porn than any Roman could have dreamed of.
I donāt think itās related to being a puritan either. Iām anything but vanilla when it comes to sex or porn, but I would be shocked if this was studied and the evidence didnāt indicate porn consumption doesnāt alter, at a minimum, behavior. Itās clearly addictive and it can cause sexual dysfunction.
I mean, we have kids that put butt plug ātailsā in and pretend theyāre animalsā¦
Something is going on.
Sure, but if Buffalo Trace made it easily accessible to your daughter at any time wouldnāt you question that?
I disagree. I donāt think itās really the same as guns at all. A gun is an object you have to actually hold, pull the trigger, feel the repercussion of the action. Iāve seen videos where theyāve taken kids that love Call of Duty to the range to fire real weapons and many of them leave crying from the sounds and recoil. In other words, when they actually use a gun there are physical and emotional ramifications they donāt feel when playing a game.
Porn is not an inanimate object that kids are physically interacting with. Itās more like a game; except, itās real people, in HD, performing sexual acts not a bunch of pixels. Or mind altering drugs. Itās exposure to things they would likely never be exposed to. Iāve never been invited to a gangbang, but Iāve certainly seen one.
Iāve played shooters and Iāve fired guns. I understand and appreciate the difference. A lot of people, particularly young people, donāt have a frame of reference for the difference between actual intimacy and what they see on pornhub, and, while I donāt have a study or data to back this up, I would be very surprised if daily/weekly consumption of porn doesnāt impact sexual behavior. If I recall correctly there are studies linking erectile dysfunction and other sexual issues to porn, but Iād have to look it up.
Look at the rise of OnlyFans for example. Normal every day women are exposing themselves in ways previous generations would be horrified over. Maybe itās the evolution of society. I guess it could be. Itās just difficult for me to set aside the increase in porn consumption and the state of society when it comes to, letās call it, sexual degradation.
Most young adults donāt understand the ramifications of porn consumption let alone teenagers and younger. Theyāre vulnerable and just like with a firearm, I donāt think itās wise to make use of either easy for kids. Iām no saying you do. Youāve made it clear you donāt. Iām just saying in general.
I doubt thatās true especially for porn created internationally.
Ya, weāve already told them they arenāt getting a phone let alone a smart phone until theyāre playing an after school sport in HS or driving. I didnāt have a smart phone until I was already a Marineā¦ Iām sure theyāll survive.
The horror, lol. Ya, they will also not be using social media for a loooong time; although, I think that will be a harder battle seeing as I use it, but weāll cross that bridge when we get there.
I think a big part of all of this is giving your kids the tools to deal with issues as they grow up. That will be our primary focus as we canāt always be there and they need to grow up and make decisions on their own anyway (obviously).
This is an interesting point. I grew up in the magazine era. We had the internet but it took like 45 minutes to download a tit and if somebody called the house, which was common because cell phones and text messaging didnāt exist, it was game over.
There was plenty of sexual exploration at young ages. Pubescent for sure, around 5th grade or so. It just kind of naturally happened, because itās sexuality. Timeless and predates porn which simply captures it on cam. Not 5th graders experimenting of course, but in general.
Edit: I guess it doesnāt predate porn because porn is as old as recorded history across various mediums. I would still suggest thereās not a chicken or egg mystery around which came first though. Maybe simultaneously as sexuality was exercised and expressed. Naturally.
Yes. A woman who lets herself be filmed while a man ejaculates on her face is emotionally and mentally stable. The funny thing is, how many men who watch and defend porn would be perfectly fine with their daughters doing it?
Yeah. I lived in a pretty densely populated neighborhood with a big friends group, and there was all kinds of curiosity being looked into right around then.
My kid is now 11, in 5th grade, and its getting to be about time for that talk. Weāve kinda warmed up to it a little, so sex in general isnāt a completely foreign subject to him, but its getting to be time to have a more direct, serious discussion.
I think porn certainly can introduce people to new ideas, I donāt agree that this is necessarily a bad thing. Iām also willing to bet every kink alive existed before porn, or would exist without it with few exceptions, specifically kinks around modern culture and current events like aliens or something. These kinks have existed alongside modern porn but correlation vs causation is still the question. Art usually imitates life.
Wearing tail buttplugs and pretending to be an animal is weird to me too. Butt plugs arenāt. But pretending to be an animal, yeah for sure. Even weirder are people who have sex with actual animals and this has been happening for millennia. And if youāve seen a donkey show in Mexicoā¦. Iām sorry. Sincerely. I know. Itās all fun and games until it actually happens but I canāt fault the porn industry.
Bestiality and numerous kinks existed in the ancient world too, including Rome. Iām sure they would surprise you, or maybe not.
Hell we havenāt even started discussing Indians and the ancient Kama Sutra texts.
Is your contention with porn or cell phone manufacturers and network ISPs and providers?
I would suggest this is a lot like a vagina.
But the point I was making was the elimination of personal choice and responsibility in participation. You canāt remove the responsibility of the shooter any more than you can the watcher.
I donāt know. Right now sheās four so thatās kind of a weird question but in the general nature that you asked, I want my daughter to become an independent, healthy, innately happy person. My influence is to guide her towards pursuing passions and developing talents geared toward them, to give her wings so to speak. I donāt know where she will end up, but if sheās legitimately happy then I am too.
So your preference isnāt swinging, I couldāve guessed, but are swingers broken and weak? I suppose cuckoldry fits under swinging but itās definitely much broader than that. Lots of couples get off simply by being watched by others. Exhibitionism. Not much different than porn. Thoughts?
So you donāt actually know how you will keep your kids away from porn?
Iām not faulting you for that. Iām pointing to the flaw in your original position of
FWIW, I have the same concern. Only solution I know of is to put a porn blocker on the phone, and blockers in the wifi router. There are MANY ways around these though.
I donāt think itās always a bad thing for adults, but I think it can be a bad thing.
I donāt think whether or not the kink existed before or after internet porn is really the issue. I think itās the wide spread exposure to it that is concerning.
Right, but re-read what you just wrote. āIf youāve seen a donkey show in Mexicoā¦ā Most people will never in their life see a Donkey show. I watched an old Japanese lady perform certain acts at the āBanana Showā in Okinawa and some real crazy shit in Thailand, but, again, those experience are rare 1-off events and the vast majority of adults would never experience that in their lifetime. People could watch bestiality porn all day if they wanted to.
I really think that makes a huge difference.
My issue is that kids have easy access to it. Iām not really interested in playing the blame game over who is actually at fault. Like I said, I think it really falls to the parents and then the individual. Porn is here to stay and I donāt believe in government intervention over activities with consenting parties.
The watchers weāre talking about lack agency and need someone to be responsible for them.
Do I think a little exposure to porn would corrupt kids indefinitely? No. It likely wouldnāt even really hurt. Kids have been walking in on their parents fucking for the entirety of human history.
But repeated exposure for hours on end, knowing that the content one watches tends to get more aggressive over time? Yeah, thatās damaging and to act like it isnāt - is willful ignorance (not saying this is you).
