I had eight relationships or hookup friends in the13 months prior to getting on TRT. My TT was 331 and e2 was 11. Never once did it effect my libido. The reason I never thought of it as an option was because I had no issues with sex. I figured that would have been the one major symptom so I assumed I was fine. Never underestimate the power of having a very high revving horny motor.
2 Likes
You canât possibly be this ignorant of my position on TRT.
First youâre talking about numbers as if a certain number defines how a man will feel. Nope.
Second, I said take the minimum amount to resolve symptoms, not to continue raising until you start getting side effects from androgen levels that are too high.
You are making an argument from ignorance. You are stating my position is xyz and itâs the furthest thing but.
Why donât you maybe consider better understanding my position prior to making silly critiques that have no bearing in reality?
I have ED with anything under 250mg a week. At 250 it goes away. Thatâs just one symptom.
This might sound nuts, and Iâve heard a handful of people tell me the same, but when I have tried 500mg on two occasions (short lived) it actually hurt my gains and my strength tanked. Iâm stronger and more muscular on my TRT dose with my total sitting around 1200. Havenât found an explanation yet and neither have they.
You really have to eat for that dose. My one and only high test blast was not as successful as it should have been because I simply did not eat as much as was necessary. It took me eight weeks to finally get the diet right and by then I was almost done. The calorie consumption goes up more than most people would initially guess.
2 Likes
Emeric recommends either Enth or Cyp but says that prop can work too
Dude everyone knows your position but you make it sound like people who are fine with a sub-500 TT like Trump are doomed to suffer consequences that will make you âwant to kill yourselfâ. People asking me why my face was so red and I never realized it was because i was taking 150mg T a week because you treat people like me as a black swan.
2 Likes
Prop is more bang for the dose, thatâs why I asked. 70mg Prop would probably feel like 100mg Cyp. 185mg puts me just over 800 at trough, with a range up to 900. 160mg will obviously put me lower, Iâm doing it to humour an endo in the US for the moment. Not that I have to, but I like to have a legal script when I fly into North America.
There you go. Your levels are double mine at the same dose.
I keep saying this and people donât get it: dose is irrelevant.
No, you are misunderstanding. If âIâ was taking 5-10mg a day Iâd want to kill myself. For sure. I didnât mention anything about men at 400 who are symptomatic. Iâve met plenty who were extremely low and had zero symptoms. If they have zero symptoms, then why change anything? When I was at 400, it was really, really bad. Like sobbing at the edge of my bed bad.
Im just curious, so your dose is 250mg week TC EOD, since when this protocol?
EOD. I can assure you Iâve tried everything. I am an outlier. It is the minimum dose to resolve my symptoms. Free T 28 and total 1068. If I bump up to 300 my total is roughly 1200. At 200mg I had a long list of symptoms still present. They were virtually all resolved at 250. They are completely resolved at 300. All blood health parameters are perfect. Iâve been at this dose for roughly two years.
2 Likes
I need to absolutely stress that I am an outlier. I need a much higher dose than most. My weekly dose and frequency of injection will be completely irrelevant to anyone else trying to determine their ideal dose and their ideal frequency of injection.
2 Likes
Thanks man!
1 Like
U might want to say that more often is all Iâm saying.
Also, âsymptomaticâ is hard to define. When I first was diagnosed hypogonadal I had a literal 81 reading. Doc said it was the lowest she had ever seen. Even then, I didnât want to kill myselfâŠI was tired mainly. But I still had a libido. She put me on pellets and things did get better(because theyâre pellets I have no idea of the dosage) but not dramatically so like I was Superman or something. Started getting scars on my ass cheeks and so they moved me to once a week injections at 150. All of a sudden Iâm getting 57 hematocrit, red face, no libido, wife pissed off cuz she aint getting any. And reading the forums Iâm thinking dosage isnât high enough, estrogen is off, etc. Nobody ever said, âdid you try just getting around the normal range for men your age. You know those men that are always complaining that they arenât getting enough.â Nobody and I mean nobody said that. And then I read Emericâs thread where he actually said he felt best on 5mg!! a day and so I decided to do 50 a week and everything is better.
Iâm just saying you might want to mention us âblack swansâ as often as you mention the dudes who need to be supra in order to get âsymptom reliefâ.
No, I donât. There are a tiny fraction of guys who do best with tiny doses. And? I have no issue with that. If it resolves your issues, then great! No black swan whatsoever. What I CAN confirm is that it will not work with the vast majority of men. Just like my dose wonât work for them either. We are outliers on the opposite ends of the spectrum.
Iâll recommend a strategy that works for MOST men to start. Then revise as required. I have a significantly better chance of getting it right the first time that assuming that the guy Iâm working with is an outlier.
Does that make things more clear?
I like that 50mg puts me around 400 with an E around 24-25âŠworks for me and thatâs where the vast majority of men who are natural are sitting. This is normal and not an outlier. And youâre not going to face issues with hematocrit and blood pressure at that level. And you are statistically going to live longer.
So Iâd recommend everyone start at 75mg a weekâŠwait 4 weeks and test and see where you are. If you are at 4-500ish TT with a Free T around 12-14 and with an E in the 20âs youâll be right there with vast majority of men who are out there having fun on weekends and not reading TRT forums.
1 Like
You need 8-12 weeks to evaluate a protocol and its effects on you. And you dont treat to numbers, like Danny said, you treat to symptom resolution. If 400 is good for you then cool. Mission accomplished.
1 Like
Unfortunately, that doesnât work in the real world for the vast majority of men. Sorry, but it doesnât. If you had any idea how many physicians Iâm in contact with, and what they report to me, youâd get it. It is also the case with most men I deal with, again with some small exceptions.
You just havenât dealt with the number of men they have, or that I have. If you did, youâd have a different perspective.
Again, to be clear, I donât care what the dose is that a man needs. If it is 50 a week, great! Maybe itâs 100. Maybe 150. Maybe more. Whatever is required to resolve symptoms. All I can report is what the majority wind up requiring. I have no bias either way.
Dose is irrelevant. Serum levels are also pretty much irrelevant. No dose or serum level will have any indication as to how a man will feel. Sorry, it just doesnât.
1 Like
I wonder if there is evidence for this 8-12 week period. In my case, after reading Emericâs thread, I did a little calculation on steroid plotter and determined when I would hit the normal 3-6mg of Test that natural guys produce. If I remember right it was about 12 days after my last shot. And sure as shit, as soon as my numbers dropped into that range I got my libido back. May not work for everyone but that was my experience.
1 Like