I can load 2.5kg, no problem. I did 42.5kg last week. And yeah, even that seems like too big a jump for long term progress.
If this is the third week and you just hit 5x8 then your next sessions should be 3x5 and 5x5 for three weeks.
Thank you.
Slightly discouraged to be finishing this cycle using the weights I was supposed to start at, but at least Iāve got stronger so any win is a win.
2 Likes
I wonāt pretend to understand this SGSS program, but progress is progress.
@MarkKO Iād like to run your deadlift template that you wrote out for Koestrizer here when I have gym access again, but Iāve just got a few questions if thatās ok.
My plan is to lift 3 times a week maximum, one āpushā day, one āpullā day and one minimal press day that may get shortened or cut some weeks. What that means is that the deadlift section would be only half a session, with the other half being extra back work.
The aim is to hit:
- 4 plate deadlift (probably barely an improvement on last Christmas)
- 150kg+ squat (at least 10kg improvement, and Iād honestly like more)
- 70kg+ press (Iād like more)
- 100kg+ bench (Iād like more)
My concerns are:
- I donāt understand the concept of accumulating fatigue. I also deload as life suggests it rather than to plan, they arenāt very predictable or to plan. I have no idea if these things can work together.
- I donāt want my deadlift training to interfere with my squat training, because I care about that far more.
- Iāve never done 90% of the movements you use, so I have no frame of reference on what kind of loads to use. I donāt want to be feeling my way through every session
- I intend to be testing maxes within a week or two of finishing the program, but i gather this would be far from ideal on this program.
Am I trying to fit a square peg in a round hole? And would I be better to just use a basic progression like the Kroc Deadlift program with a basic assistance for hamstrings and lower back and move on with the training I care more about?
For sure. Iām not 100% sold on the āprogramā as Iām running it, but Iām aware itās a long way from how it was written. I may change my mind once the results are in.
You seem like the kind of guy that to me that loves programming almost to a fault. You have a great mind for it, but maybe to an extent that you box yourself in a little. I think sometimes you need to shock your system and color outside the lines once in a while.
(This coming someone who probably goes outside the lines way too much)
1 Like
If you care more about the squat then yes put an emphasis on it. For me anyways, Iām a natural deadlifter, and focusing on the squat improves my deadlifts (off the floor power). Either way focus on your weaknesses. Like there is no sense for me to do low back or glutes isolation I think (I back extension 100kgs for sets of 10 without training) but I have hamstring weakness, especially the left one so Iāll hammer these
Actually this might be a good idea to test new exercises, especially assistance. Especially if youāve been lifting for quite some time. Youāre unsure about the weight? Start low! Itās great because you can use ālowā weight and still reap benefits, and you progress each week. It will still put a new stress on your body which youāll have to adapt to. Donāt worry the bran is powerful and in like 3-4 weeks youāll have adapted your neural system to the new exercise and will be able to use true weights.
I have discovered or rediscovered new exercises last year with which I had never felt the target muscle like this. This improved my training for sure, if for years I was unable to properly feel my chest on isolation and now I can
1 Like
I agree. However the template uses new exercises every week. The exercises donāt progress and are often only 1 or 2 sets, so thereās not much wiggle room to find an appropriate load.
Thatās the plan. Iām on the verge of breaking new ground (for me) on the squat (~150kg PR). The fact that I canāt remember an exact number tells you all you need to know about how seriously I took my squat training compared to my deadlift.
I do, yeah. Iāve probably written more programs than I could use in a lifetime. Itās as much an enjoyment thing as a compliance thing.
I donāt want to speak for @MarkKO but @aldebaran makes good points already.
@FlatsFarmer argumented on that point as following:
I think varying the accessories like that builds a good foundation for all the muscles needed to safely build a big deadlift.
2 Likes
Sold. Iāll do it as written, unless @MarkKO tells me itās a bad fit.
2 Likes
No mater what you decide to do, Iāll be watching and cheering.
2 Likes
Ok, so I think thereās a lot to unpack and address here.
The first thing is that you want to increase your squat, bench press, press and deadlift but youāre thinking in terms of a push day and a pull day, with maybe an extra press day. Wouldnāt it make more sense to think in terms of a squat and bench day and a deadlift and press day (or squat and press, etc)? Maybe itās just semantics, but if you want to improve specific lifts thatās a performance goal, and those usually are best served by adressing the lifts rather than broad movement categories.
Second, the program I wrote was written to fit into a three to four day per week microcycle; and one where each day is focused mostly on one lift. You could absolutely fit that deadlift progression into a different scenario, but it would be just the progression, not the program itself. I can help set that up if you want. As to deadlift training not interfering with squat training, that is unlikely to happen since you have a brain and you use it pretty well. If you think about it, if squat and deadlift training interacted negatively as a rule, the majority of powerlifting training as we know it wouldnāt work.
You can pretty much take the above two elements and take a very effective route: you make one day squat and bench; and one day deadlift and press. On the d/p day your deadlift is the progression I wrote. You set up assistance on each day however you like. Personally I would pick three exercises: a row (one day horizontal, one day vertical); a tricep or chest builder (one day tricep, one day chest); and a lower back or ab builder (one day lower back, one day ab). That possible third day you fill in the gaps: upper back, hamstrings, quads, glutes, biceps, shoulders. The main focus with the assistance is to NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRY TO PROGRESS IT. Get a pump, feel the muscle and leave it at that. Switch the assistance exercises weekly within each category along with the sets and reps. It helps resist the tempation to progress them.
That sets you up pretty nicely, using those two days a week very effectively.
Now, the concept of accumulating fatigue, managing that fatigue and using it to improve performance is one of the cornerstones of training for increases in physical abilities. Itās very simple: you accumulate fatigue by doing something, and keep doing it so your body has no other option than to make itself better able to do it. In the context of what we do, this means growing muscles and using larger amounts of those muscles.
The main problem we encounter when accumulating fatigue is accumulating too much of it, which leads to injury. So we manage fatigue with regular, planned deloads. This ensures that we never accumulate too much fatigue. What it does not mean is that all training performance is the same with managed fatigue. The more fatigue you accumulate over time, the worse your performance becomes, even with regular deloads. This has no impact on your body adapting, however, because as long as you stay uninjured after a period of overreaching and supercompensating (a peak) you will be able to express increased maximal strength.
The problem with deloading as life dictates is that the deloads are not implemented according to your bodyās requirements and so may be either too frequent or not frequent enough. In short, you will have far less effective management of accumulated fatigue. As a result, you will likely have a reduced response to the training you do either because you failed to accumulate sufficient fatigue to force adaptation; or because you accumulated too much fatigue for too long for your body to be able to effectively recover.
This becomes a problem when you plan to test your maximal strength. In order to display the maximal strength you have trained to develop, at the least you require a peak, which takes four to eight weeks usually. Whether or not your maximal strength will have increased is going to depend on the effectiveness of your training - which is a large part is going to depend on how well you accumulated fatigue and managed it.
7 Likes
I like what @MarkKO has laid down here but would offer one potential change. Keep your deadlift and press day but maybe think about having squat and bench as seperate days. This gives you an option to that add a second bench and second squat day to work on technique or volume or a variation. This would basically be similar to what I am doing now but removed the third bench day which I do with deadlifts and make it a press days.
Or just do what Mark said and use your third session to do that squat and bench volume stuff.
1 Like
I said the possible third day because as I understand @dagill2 a third isnāt a given. So I based everything I said on just two days as that is guaranteed
2 Likes
Thanks for the time to write the post out, as always. Iāll comment on a few bits.
The logic behind that is that Iām aware my āpullā is a massive weak link that hinders at least my bench and press, maybe more. I needed a way to make it central to a session rather than an afterthought. The press got moved off āpullā day because Iām fairly confident Iāll manage at least a basic topset of presses every week with no issues and most of the assistance for press is already being covered by bench assistance.
My thoughts at the minute are to leave the deadlift day as is (to your plan), and add an extra upper back exercise and maybe some biceps fluff as youāve already included one upper back exercise per session.
Not massively worried about this. Iām not strong enough to consider overtraining a likely situation on a 2 day a week template.
This is absolute gold and absolute brings together everything Iāve been trying to learn about assistance for the last year or so. A massive āahaā moment there. Iāll be using this thinking extensively for the foreseeable future. How do you feel about the idea of switching between 3/4 different assistance exercises as a compromise between keeping things different and being somewhat familiar with the movements used? For example, having 4 different triceps finishers and just switching between them every session? That way i keep it fresh, but I also have a fair idea how to load it.
2 Likes
Always a pleasure
That makes it a lot clearer. I wouldnāt worry about a pull day, though. If you could commit to 25 reps of a vertical or horizontal pull two to three non training days per well I suspect you would get the same or better effect.
That would likely work very well. Training twice a week you would have good recovery capacity
This would be excellent. I would recommend against the finisher idea though, because it is a largely silly concept. Assistance work is bodybuilding. If youāre trying to finish yourself you wonāt focus on feeling and contracting the muscle.
Look, mostly what Greg does with us is worked on a few exercises, but they switch constantly:
Chest: dips, pushups, dumbbell bench, pec flys
Triceps: DB tricep extensions, tricep pushdowns, skull crushers
Lats/mid back: lat pulldowns, pullups, inverted rows, DB rows, barbell rows, Pendlay rows
Lower back/hamstrings: back extensions, good mornings
Quads: goblet squat, leg press, split squat, walking lunges
Shoulders: plate raises, lateral raises, rear delt flys
Thatās basically it. What he does is change reps and sets every time we do them.
1 Like
I probably canāt, the way work is looking at the minute. I will some weeks, but not all or even most. To be honest, the only difference between what youāre suggesting and what Iāve written down is that in your version, Iād have a few sets of pressing on the Tuesday as the assistance for press is pretty much there already.
I probably misused the phrase, but I think weāre on a similar page here. Lots of constant tension volume in order to create a pump.
Awesome, thank you. Iāll get working.
1 Like
Thereās a novel in here every morningā¦lol
1 Like