[quote]flipcollar wrote:
hey WhiteFlash, what do you think about Blake Griffin as an athlete?[/quote]
Honestly think his athleticism is a little overrated. His fearlessness expressing his athleticism is what’s truly impressive, if that makes sense.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Usmc, you really need to go back and watch young Jordan clips. I think you’re remembering him in his later years. I was being serious when I recommended Come Fly With Me. That shit still gives me goose bumps.[/quote]
So WF
Jordon > or = or < than Deon Sanders in the athletic dept?[/quote]
That’s a tough one, but I’m going Jordan. Sanders was obviously faster on a straight away, but Jordan wins in every other quantifiable athletic quality. And, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan was capable of a legit 4.5 40 in his prime.[/quote]
I will check out come fly with me. I’ve seen highlights when he was young, but was too young for most of his career.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
hey WhiteFlash, what do you think about Blake Griffin as an athlete?[/quote]
God Damnit flip let him answer my question first
WF greatest internet athletic judge of all time.[/quote]
QFT. You know what would be awesome? If he answered us both in 1 POST!!!
sweetness.
Edit: oops, too late[/quote]
DAMNIT! Is it too late to go back!?!?
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Ummmmmmmmmmmm… No, no and no. I had the opportunity to see MJ live when I was 12 I think. Will never forget it. We had great seats, and went for like 34 in 36 minutes. I’ll never forget the way he moved. Effortless yet explosive and under control.
[/quote]
How good you look doesn’t make you a better athlete. I’ll be the first to admit I had a hard time watching Lebron, but when you look at the facts of what he does he’s just more athletic just happens to look like an awkward robot doing it.
End to end he’s faster then Jordan.
Jordan had great flare but the only time his vertical was ever measured it was not near the 48" everybody loves to claim.
Now they legitimately test athletes coming in, Lebron has a legit 44" one of the highest and that’s when he was 19.
Fact Lebron was a better highschool football player then Jordan a baseball player.
Speed/Strength/Explosiveness lebron has it. That’s athletecism[/quote]
Lebron James’ vert is NOWHERE NEAR 44". He bailed on testing at the NBA combine so no one would know for sure. I’d say he’s realistically good for a “38 off the run. That is still very impressive for a dude that size. Jordan was a legit 42” off the run.
Well I’m out, it’s been fun.
JORDAN IS THE GREATEST ATHLETE OF ALL TIME!!!
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Usmc, you really need to go back and watch young Jordan clips. I think you’re remembering him in his later years. I was being serious when I recommended Come Fly With Me. That shit still gives me goose bumps.[/quote]
So WF
Jordon > or = or < than Deon Sanders in the athletic dept?[/quote]
That’s a tough one, but I’m going Jordan. Sanders was obviously faster on a straight away, but Jordan wins in every other quantifiable athletic quality. And, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan was capable of a legit 4.5 40 in his prime.[/quote]
I will check out come fly with me. I’ve seen highlights when he was young, but was too young for most of his career.
Edit:
I also saw him play for the Wizards…so there’s that. [/quote]
Damn you young lol
WF I just dont know on this one, Prime was covering WR’s and he could cut and move him hips better than anyone. Not just straight speed, he could back pedal and turn on a dime, not any better cover corners ever IMO. He couldnt tackle for shit but man he could lock shit down.
I got to see MJ play David Robinson back in the original arena in San Antonio, that was fucking awesome
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Usmc, you really need to go back and watch young Jordan clips. I think you’re remembering him in his later years. I was being serious when I recommended Come Fly With Me. That shit still gives me goose bumps.[/quote]
So WF
Jordon > or = or < than Deon Sanders in the athletic dept?[/quote]
Jordan < Neon Deon,aka Primetime. Kickoff Return TDs, Punt Return TDs, Receiving TDs, Interception TDs, Fumble Recovery TDs, If he touched the ball, everyone watching new he could score a touchdown from anywhere on the field against any team in the league. Homeruns, stolen bases, outfield plays. Played both ways in the modern day nfl for Americas Team. Prime Time was a bad mamma jamma! Might be the greatest ever. Who knows what Bo Jackson could have done though? We never got to really get ‘to know Bo’ and it kinda sucks
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Jerry Rice was an elite player, but not an elite athlete. He never was considered fast or very strong. But he was more like Larry Bird or Magic Johnson.
Moss had more ability, Rice was the better player. [/quote]
If pure athleticism is the only criteria then the whole list should be the top 10 male gymnasts in the world. Shit, the 100th ranked gymnast in the world is still a better athlete then the next best athlete in another sport.[/quote]
Maybe in relative upper body strength. I think Olympic lifters are some of the best athletes. Even the superheavyweights (many are fat) can run a quick 40 yard dash. I’m thinking a gymnast wouldn’t be very quick on his feet or explosive compared to a sprinter, oly lifter, football/soccer player etc…[/quote]
Dude, the fast-twitch fibers required to project your body into the air the way they do is insane. So are the fast twitch fibers used to land or move around the pummel horse. Why do you think rings are so popular with guys like Thibadeau now?[/quote]
That’s a fair point. It often seems that gymnasts just lack the lower body development (at least visually).
I remember watching “Ninja Warrior” and one of the contestants was a gymnast. He killed it on the upperbody stuff but couldn’t run or jump like some of the other contestants who had much better legs. I know it’s just one example but it always stood out in my head.
I have often thought if you could combine an Oly lifter with a gymnast, then you would have the ultimate athlete.
Bo Jackson might be the best natural athlete in the history of our planet. Aside from football and baseball, he wad looked at as a legit Olympic sprinting prospect coming out of high school, and played minor league basketball. Supposedly he never lifted or really trained either.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Ummmmmmmmmmmm… No, no and no. I had the opportunity to see MJ live when I was 12 I think. Will never forget it. We had great seats, and went for like 34 in 36 minutes. I’ll never forget the way he moved. Effortless yet explosive and under control.
[/quote]
How good you look doesn’t make you a better athlete. I’ll be the first to admit I had a hard time watching Lebron, but when you look at the facts of what he does he’s just more athletic just happens to look like an awkward robot doing it.
End to end he’s faster then Jordan.
Jordan had great flare but the only time his vertical was ever measured it was not near the 48" everybody loves to claim.
Now they legitimately test athletes coming in, Lebron has a legit 44" one of the highest and that’s when he was 19.
Fact Lebron was a better highschool football player then Jordan a baseball player.
Speed/Strength/Explosiveness lebron has it. That’s athletecism[/quote]
Well, thousands of testimonials PLUS first hand observation helps.
Imagine if Jordan would have also played football in high school? Imagine him as a wide receiver? Or a QB?
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Airtruth, Barkley is drunk every time he speaks, Pippen has historically knocked Jordan and Mark Jackson said Bryant was better than Jordan, not James.
Shane Battier, Bob Sura, Luther Head, there’s been quite a few guys I’ve played with and talked to, but those are the 3 that immediately came to mind that have guarded both.[/quote]
The same Battier that said you have to know where Kobe is on the perimeter because he has a good jump shot, but you have to know where Lebron is the second he crosses the free throw line on the other end of the court, because if he gets a step you pretty much can’t stop him? sounds like he thinks Lebron is the better athlete… Did you ask them whose the better athlete or who’s the better player?
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Derek542 wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Usmc, you really need to go back and watch young Jordan clips. I think you’re remembering him in his later years. I was being serious when I recommended Come Fly With Me. That shit still gives me goose bumps.[/quote]
So WF
Jordon > or = or < than Deon Sanders in the athletic dept?[/quote]
That’s a tough one, but I’m going Jordan. Sanders was obviously faster on a straight away, but Jordan wins in every other quantifiable athletic quality. And, I wouldn’t be surprised if Jordan was capable of a legit 4.5 40 in his prime.[/quote]
I will check out come fly with me. I’ve seen highlights when he was young, but was too young for most of his career.
Edit:
I also saw him play for the Wizards…so there’s that. [/quote]
Damn you young lol
WF I just dont know on this one, Prime was covering WR’s and he could cut and move him hips better than anyone. Not just straight speed, he could back pedal and turn on a dime, not any better cover corners ever IMO. He couldnt tackle for shit but man he could lock shit down.
I got to see MJ play David Robinson back in the original arena in San Antonio, that was fucking awesome[/quote]
Deion was a beast no doubt, just don’t think he was on Jordan’s level.
David Robinson was an athletic anomaly as well. He and Olajuwon shouldn’t have been able to move like that at that size.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
Jordan < Neon Deon,aka Primetime. Kickoff Return TDs, Punt Return TDs, Receiving TDs, Interception TDs, Fumble Recovery TDs, If he touched the ball, everyone watching new he could score a touchdown from anywhere on the field against any team in the league. [/quote]
Add in 60 yard punts, touchdown passes, revolutionizing the importance of the forward pass in football, and you’ve got Sammy Baugh. 13 NFL records at 3 positions when he retired. First player to intercept 4 passes in a game, in which he also played quarterback and punter.
Again, how are we not talking about this guy???
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]Brett620 wrote:
Jerry Rice was an elite player, but not an elite athlete. He never was considered fast or very strong. But he was more like Larry Bird or Magic Johnson.
Moss had more ability, Rice was the better player. [/quote]
If pure athleticism is the only criteria then the whole list should be the top 10 male gymnasts in the world. Shit, the 100th ranked gymnast in the world is still a better athlete then the next best athlete in another sport.[/quote]
That’s ridiculous. Those dudes don’t have anywhere near the speed, leaping ability, power or agility to qualify. Strength and the ability to use trampolines - while impressive - aren’t enough.[/quote]
Are you kidding me? Are you aware of the upper-body strength required to perform on the rings or the pummel horse? Power and agility is something that gymnasts have in spades. And the leaping ability is off the charts, trampoline or not.[/quote]
You’re confusing flexibility with agility. I already said they’re strong, but they have no other observable quality that would qualify 'em for this list. Being able to do a standing back flip requires very little leaping ability. How you can try and argue this is baffling.
[/quote]
Are we thinking of the same gymnastics? I mean shit like the uneven bars, the parallel bars, the rings, the pummel horse, that sort of shit. A standing backflip? These guys do triple flips with multiple 360 degree rotations, and then land on legs strong enough to withstand the impact and centrifugal force created by all that spinning and flipping.
There isn’t one athlete in any of these lists that isn’t a gymnast that has EVER performed even one backflip with a 360 rotation and landed on their feet, let alone multiple flips and rotations.
Shit, look at the floor routines the women go through. They perform all sorts of crazy aerial movements and they don’t use anything but their own athletic ability to project themselves into the air. No trampolines used in the floor routine. And if you’ve seen them running before they do the vault you’d know that they have pretty impressive as well.
You’re just fucking with me, aren’t you?[/quote]
Those floors have springs. I’m not saying they can’t do some impressive things (the shit they do on the rings blows me away), I just can’t put 'em in the same group with the Nate Robinsons and Vernon Davis’s of the world.
[/quote]
I guess you’ve never jumped around on a real parquet floor then. They are FAR springier than the padded mats the floor routine is performed on.
And as far as Vernon Davis goes, I guess you haven’t seen him play a whole lot. His athleticism is purely one-dimensional and doesn’t belong in a list of the 100 greatest athletes. He’s extremely fast for his size and he’s strong, but that’s about it. He doesn’t have the best eye-hand coordination, as evidenced by the dozens of passes I’ve seen hit him square in the hands that he’s dropped and the dozen or so that I’ve seen hit him right in the face mask.
As athletic as he is, he can’t run worth shit with any agility. The guy is one of the worst open-field runners I’ve ever seen and has almost no moves to speak of. He’s a straight-line runner and that’s about it.
I also think that Deon could guard Jordan in a basketball game. Granted Jordan could post up on Deon and score, but Deon would be making some steals and Jordan woudn’t be able to catch Deon going the other way before he made a layup. I also think Deon could walk in the gym and done this to Jordan without practice. I think if Jordan walked on the football field, he would not catch a pass on Deon, and wouldn’t be able to cover or stop Deon from scoring every time Deon touched the ball. Just my honest opinion, and no way of knowing for sure.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Bo Jackson might be the best natural athlete in the history of our planet. Aside from football and baseball, he wad looked at as a legit Olympic sprinting prospect coming out of high school, and played minor league basketball. Supposedly he never lifted or really trained either.[/quote]
I believe he competed in the decathalon as well? I might be wrong, but for some reason I remember reading that or something
Here’s a novel concept: what an athlete looks like has absolutely NO bearing on how athletic he/she is. Justin Verlander doesn’t “look” like a great athlete, but I would put him pretty far up anyone’s list.
Watch his left leg as he plants. The hip to shoulder separation is something that requires a lot of athleticism, as does the balance and agility required to repeat the motion so perfectly that you can literally throw every pitch into or near the strike zone with close to maximum effort, over and over and over.
But watch his left leg as he lands. The hyperextension it goes through as he lands with all 6’5" 225 lbs of his body on that one leg is unreal. It reveals some serious power in those legs.
[quote]Airtruth wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Airtruth, Barkley is drunk every time he speaks, Pippen has historically knocked Jordan and Mark Jackson said Bryant was better than Jordan, not James.
Shane Battier, Bob Sura, Luther Head, there’s been quite a few guys I’ve played with and talked to, but those are the 3 that immediately came to mind that have guarded both.[/quote]
The same Battier that said you have to know where Kobe is on the perimeter because he has a good jump shot, but you have to know where Lebron is the second he crosses the free throw line on the other end of the court, because if he gets a step you pretty much can’t stop him? sounds like he thinks Lebron is the better athlete… Did you ask them whose the better athlete or who’s the better player? [/quote]
He said that about where they currently are in their respective careers. I talked to him about both. We’re talking prime, not current.
[quote]mbdix wrote:
I also think that Deon could guard Jordan in a basketball game. Granted Jordan could post up on Deon and score, but Deon would be making some steals and Jordan woudn’t be able to catch Deon going the other way before he made a layup. I also think Deon could walk in the gym and done this to Jordan without practice. I think if Jordan walked on the football field, he would not catch a pass on Deon, and wouldn’t be able to cover or stop Deon from scoring every time Deon touched the ball. Just my honest opinion, and no way of knowing for sure.[/quote]
This is so incredibly ridiculous I don’t know where to start. You’re telling me that a guy who made his living playing football could successfully guard a basketball player with the highest scoring average of all time?
How about Lindsey Vonn? The athleticism required to fly down a mountain on skis at up to 80 mph or so is pretty impressive. Lots of eye-hand-leg coordination, lots of power and strength to stay tucked and tight through all that shit and at that high of a speed, lots of endurance, etc.