[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
That’s what I suspect but I don’t really care who’s a headhunter sockpuppet or who’s some other headcase. [/quote]
I found articles on gay demonic possession on HenryMakow.something, which would be very Headhunter.
[/quote]
Gay demonic possession? Now that’s funny…
Off topic but why are Christians here swearing so much?
[quote]forbes wrote:
Off topic but why are Christians here swearing so much?[/quote]
I think I am the big swearer round these parts and pretty much that’s the way I talk. I find it helps lubricate the subject matter…
How you been Forbes?
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Every time I give evidence you just say something on the lines of “damn, you need to read your scripture” even though this entire time you have not even used any scripture to defend your case. [/quote]
Get used to it. These fools love to talk, but hate to explain.
[quote]pat wrote:
Somebody who demonstrates no knowledge of something and then claims to have knowledge of that thing he demonstrates no knowledge of tends to rock my bullshit meter. I know you didn’t read it based on what you said. People who have, demonstrate knowledge that they have, people who didn’t read it, show them selves as having no knowledge of the subject matter as you have. You’re not the first person to lie about it. [/quote]
In other words, “You don’t agree with me, therefore you MUST be a liar. FUCK no I’m not going to back up this accusation with anything. Not when I can just keep saying it over and over.”
Oh? You think he’s a cultist/paganist? Please say yes. Many lolz will follow.
[quote]
No idiot, the 4 dimension is thought to be time or space-time. [/quote]
Which is different from what I said… how?
Non-sequitur.
Lol wut? There certainly is reason to suggest the universe will eventually burn itself out. For a guy who’s sole argument is “You haven’t read the bible!”, you’re a very ignorant person. >> Future of an expanding universe - Wikipedia
Also, the universe had a beginning. This much is obvious. However, if you have matter that can move through greater than 4 dimensions, time is irrelevant to them. All the “stuff” needed to make the universe will have always existed. Even to say “always existed” is a tad fallacious because it implies a beginning and an end. With even a mediocre understanding of quantum mechanics, it is feasible, and even expected for universes to form naturally. Ours happened to have the potential for life. Was this intentional? Perhaps, but I see no reason to assume so. There is the potential for an infinite amount of universes, so ours was, statistically speaking, inevitable.
Then leave. It’s that easy. Stop coming back to me if you don’t want to debate.
We are all God’s children, are we not? Had your physical Father done 0.001% to you the damage and cruelty Yahweh has exhibited, well, your dad would’ve faced the death penalty years ago.
But, it’s not a sin when God does it, right? rolls eyes
[quote]
You’re killing me with stupidity.[/quote]
Like how a doctor is killing his patients by telling them they have cancer.
Fibroblaster = the religious version of Alffi.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Somebody who demonstrates no knowledge of something and then claims to have knowledge of that thing he demonstrates no knowledge of tends to rock my bullshit meter. I know you didn’t read it based on what you said. People who have, demonstrate knowledge that they have, people who didn’t read it, show them selves as having no knowledge of the subject matter as you have. You’re not the first person to lie about it. [/quote]
In other words, “You don’t agree with me, therefore you MUST be a liar. FUCK no I’m not going to back up this accusation with anything. Not when I can just keep saying it over and over.”
[/quote]
It has nothing to do with agreeing or not, you don’t know it. You flat don’t know whats in the bible. I disagree with people who have read the bible, but I can tell they’ve read it.
Further, I don’t even know what I am supposed to be disagreeing with you on. You asked a dumb question. “If God told you to ________, would you do it.” I didn’t answer it and told I wasn’t going to answer it and why. So you tried to bully me into it, call me names, all kinds of weird angles than haven’t to do with anything. Honestly, I don’t know what your even on about now.
[quote]
Oh? You think he’s a cultist/paganist? Please say yes. Many lolz will follow.
Yeah so? That’s a current theory and certainly a viable one, but I actually don’t know what point you are trying to make. Saul killed most of the amakelites at the command of God, therefore M-theory, 4th dimention and expading universe means he’s evil?
Pardon me, I am lost. What is it you are trying to say?
Correct, this universe had a beginning. We don’t know if there was anything prior to the big bang as we have no evidence for it. Even if matter, energy, or basal information existed prior to the big bang, it doesn’t really mean anything. How it got there and from what and why are still viable questions, whose answer is not “Just 'cause”. That contingency problem transcends this universe and everything in it. Even the stuff of metaphysics is still contingent and in that realm there is no time.
So how does that make Saul killing the amakelites at God’s command make evil? That is where you were going with it right?
I’d just like to know what we’re debating? You’re all mad about somethin’ Last I heard you were trying to get me to answer the question if God asked me to kill a bunch of people, would I do it?
That’s a question, not a point or a matter of debate.
Atta boy! Go to it, this is exactly were I figured you were going. You wonder why I wouldn’t answer the question? 'Cause you were going to say something like this. You’re so focused on the one thing, you can’t see the bigger picture and perspective.
And if you did believe in God, and understood what a God is supposed to be, you would understand you can’t hold God to your standards. You aren’t his boss, teacher, arbitrator or judge.
[quote]
[quote]
You’re killing me with stupidity.[/quote]
Like how a doctor is killing his patients by telling them they have cancer.[/quote]
ha! Now you sound like tirib with his trillion watt light bulb.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Off topic but why are Christians here swearing so much?[/quote]
I think I am the big swearer round these parts and pretty much that’s the way I talk. I find it helps lubricate the subject matter…
How you been Forbes? [/quote]
Ive been doing well thank you. I’ve gotten quite heavier. I non intentionally reached 200 lbs, but Ive gotten stronger too. Now Im just applying to various universities since Im finishing up my undergrad. So all in all, mostly school stuff.
How you been?
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Off topic but why are Christians here swearing so much?[/quote]
I think I am the big swearer round these parts and pretty much that’s the way I talk. I find it helps lubricate the subject matter…
How you been Forbes? [/quote]
Ive been doing well thank you. I’ve gotten quite heavier. I non intentionally reached 200 lbs, but Ive gotten stronger too. Now Im just applying to various universities since Im finishing up my undergrad. So all in all, mostly school stuff.
How you been?[/quote]
Ha! It always comes when you aren’t trying doesn’t it? Enjoy the strength and size. It’s like you try so hard, then out of no where it happens suddenly then you aren’t sure you wanted to grow that large…
Tell you the truth, I am starting to (thank God!) coming out of one of the most soul crushing life phases I have ever been through. But I keep trying… I can PM you the rest.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]forbes wrote:
Off topic but why are Christians here swearing so much?[/quote]
I think I am the big swearer round these parts and pretty much that’s the way I talk. I find it helps lubricate the subject matter…
How you been Forbes? [/quote]
Ive been doing well thank you. I’ve gotten quite heavier. I non intentionally reached 200 lbs, but Ive gotten stronger too. Now Im just applying to various universities since Im finishing up my undergrad. So all in all, mostly school stuff.
How you been?[/quote]
Ha! It always comes when you aren’t trying doesn’t it? Enjoy the strength and size. It’s like you try so hard, then out of no where it happens suddenly then you aren’t sure you wanted to grow that large…
Tell you the truth, I am starting to (thank God!) coming out of one of the most soul crushing life phases I have ever been through. But I keep trying… I can PM you the rest.[/quote]
Please do I’d like to know more.
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Somebody who demonstrates no knowledge of something and then claims to have knowledge of that thing he demonstrates no knowledge of tends to rock my bullshit meter. I know you didn’t read it based on what you said. People who have, demonstrate knowledge that they have, people who didn’t read it, show them selves as having no knowledge of the subject matter as you have. You’re not the first person to lie about it. [/quote]
In other words, “You don’t agree with me, therefore you MUST be a liar. FUCK no I’m not going to back up this accusation with anything. Not when I can just keep saying it over and over.”
[/quote]
It has nothing to do with agreeing or not, you don’t know it. You flat don’t know whats in the bible. I disagree with people who have read the bible, but I can tell they’ve read it.
Further, I don’t even know what I am supposed to be disagreeing with you on. You asked a dumb question. “If God told you to ________, would you do it.” I didn’t answer it and told I wasn’t going to answer it and why. So you tried to bully me into it, call me names, all kinds of weird angles than haven’t to do with anything. Honestly, I don’t know what your even on about now.
[quote]
Oh? You think he’s a cultist/paganist? Please say yes. Many lolz will follow.
Yeah so? That’s a current theory and certainly a viable one, but I actually don’t know what point you are trying to make. Saul killed most of the amakelites at the command of God, therefore M-theory, 4th dimention and expading universe means he’s evil?
Pardon me, I am lost. What is it you are trying to say?
Correct, this universe had a beginning. We don’t know if there was anything prior to the big bang as we have no evidence for it. Even if matter, energy, or basal information existed prior to the big bang, it doesn’t really mean anything. How it got there and from what and why are still viable questions, whose answer is not “Just 'cause”. That contingency problem transcends this universe and everything in it. Even the stuff of metaphysics is still contingent and in that realm there is no time.
So how does that make Saul killing the amakelites at God’s command make evil? That is where you were going with it right?
I’d just like to know what we’re debating? You’re all mad about somethin’ Last I heard you were trying to get me to answer the question if God asked me to kill a bunch of people, would I do it?
That’s a question, not a point or a matter of debate.
Atta boy! Go to it, this is exactly were I figured you were going. You wonder why I wouldn’t answer the question? 'Cause you were going to say something like this. You’re so focused on the one thing, you can’t see the bigger picture and perspective.
And if you did believe in God, and understood what a God is supposed to be, you would understand you can’t hold God to your standards. You aren’t his boss, teacher, arbitrator or judge.
[quote]
[quote]
You’re killing me with stupidity.[/quote]
Like how a doctor is killing his patients by telling them they have cancer.[/quote]
ha! Now you sound like tirib with his trillion watt light bulb. [/quote]
Alrighty it’s late so I’m just going to power through this.
You’re a secret Muslim.
Go through the post history if your senile old mind can’t recall how you cluster-fucked what should have been a very straight forward exchange.
You haven’t yet wrapped your head around the concept of being greater than time. Whatever came before “time” as our universe is concerned didn’t require a “first cause”.
This isn’t the direction I intended on going in, you were just so damn set on going down this path, it’s where we ended up.
Just in case you’re curious, we started this debate talking about objective moral codes vs. compassionate by nature. I asked you if you would kill at God’s will. assuming you said “yes”, I would follow by asking if you would do so at the will of the pope. If the answer was still “yes” then I would contend that you are very much in the same mindset of those who followed Hitler. They looked to him as a strong leader and a devout Christian (i know you think he wasn’t, but that’s irrelevant. They saw him that way and that’s all that matters here) and so would be willing to kill for him. << This is the danger of an objective moral code. If you are compassionate by nature, there’s no question of twisting rules to fit your sadism. This is not the case if you’re only “good” because you follow the edicts of others.
Is God above logic?
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Somebody who demonstrates no knowledge of something and then claims to have knowledge of that thing he demonstrates no knowledge of tends to rock my bullshit meter. I know you didn’t read it based on what you said. People who have, demonstrate knowledge that they have, people who didn’t read it, show them selves as having no knowledge of the subject matter as you have. You’re not the first person to lie about it. [/quote]
In other words, “You don’t agree with me, therefore you MUST be a liar. FUCK no I’m not going to back up this accusation with anything. Not when I can just keep saying it over and over.”
[/quote]
It has nothing to do with agreeing or not, you don’t know it. You flat don’t know whats in the bible. I disagree with people who have read the bible, but I can tell they’ve read it.
Further, I don’t even know what I am supposed to be disagreeing with you on. You asked a dumb question. “If God told you to ________, would you do it.” I didn’t answer it and told I wasn’t going to answer it and why. So you tried to bully me into it, call me names, all kinds of weird angles than haven’t to do with anything. Honestly, I don’t know what your even on about now.
[quote]
Oh? You think he’s a cultist/paganist? Please say yes. Many lolz will follow.
Yeah so? That’s a current theory and certainly a viable one, but I actually don’t know what point you are trying to make. Saul killed most of the amakelites at the command of God, therefore M-theory, 4th dimention and expading universe means he’s evil?
Pardon me, I am lost. What is it you are trying to say?
Correct, this universe had a beginning. We don’t know if there was anything prior to the big bang as we have no evidence for it. Even if matter, energy, or basal information existed prior to the big bang, it doesn’t really mean anything. How it got there and from what and why are still viable questions, whose answer is not “Just 'cause”. That contingency problem transcends this universe and everything in it. Even the stuff of metaphysics is still contingent and in that realm there is no time.
So how does that make Saul killing the amakelites at God’s command make evil? That is where you were going with it right?
I’d just like to know what we’re debating? You’re all mad about somethin’ Last I heard you were trying to get me to answer the question if God asked me to kill a bunch of people, would I do it?
That’s a question, not a point or a matter of debate.
Atta boy! Go to it, this is exactly were I figured you were going. You wonder why I wouldn’t answer the question? 'Cause you were going to say something like this. You’re so focused on the one thing, you can’t see the bigger picture and perspective.
And if you did believe in God, and understood what a God is supposed to be, you would understand you can’t hold God to your standards. You aren’t his boss, teacher, arbitrator or judge.
[quote]
K.whatever.
Logic fail. I don’t think you understand what time is or what ‘first cause’ means.
Precisely why I didn’t answer the question. You make too many assumptions about the ‘type’ of person I, or one would have to be. That necessarily are subjugated by authority, because it’s authority and we’re have just numbed ourselves into a ‘Yes, master’ mentality because we’re either to dumb or to afraid. If you were truly interested in discussing the role of authority, cognitive dissonance and situational attribution the Milgram Experiment or the Stanford Prison Experiment would have produced a far more productive conversation.
For all you need to do, is just keep tossing up random scriptures to go chasing and researching for you to explain the context of what, why, where and how. And trust me, that’s exactly what you would have done and indeed are doing. “Oh yeah, what about this passage?, or this one? or this one?” Enough to give me a full time job chasing your whims while you indulge your fantacy at trying to make Christians look stupid.
“What if God told you , would you do it? So and so in the bible did it, are you like him?” ~ I have good reason to doubt your sincerity, it’s not like you’ve been honest.
[quote]
Is God above logic?[/quote]
Duh.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:<<< Is God above logic?[/quote]God IS logic (but logic is not God) and He is hence the most logical being there is or ever could be. Having been designed and created by Him, our logic is a mini version of His. When there appears to be conflict between His and ours? His wins, regardless of what we think for what should be obvious reasons. However, because of sin, we do not see it that way.
[quote]pat wrote:
Logic fail. I don’t think you understand what time is or what ‘first cause’ means.
[/quote]
Debating fail. Asserting things =/= an argument. You’re ignorant of this field and your covering it by projecting.
[quote]
Precisely why I didn’t answer the question. You make too many assumptions about the ‘type’ of person I, or one would have to be. [/quote]
Actually, I didn’t make any assumptions. That’s why I asked you the question instead of just pressing forward. Do you think at all before posting?
Well, for you maybe, because that diverts attention away from your personal delusions and the extent to which you will act on them.
Actually, I’m indefinitely impressed with the Christian mind and it’s ability to take the impossible and twist it until it’s only improbable, then latch on to the improbable as though anything short of absolute contradictory proof is enough to verify your world view.
I’m interested, Pat, are you gnostic or agnostic in your belief in God?
I know you tried really hard there, but those questions just don’t sound unreasonable to me. Here you have an ultimate authority figure. Is it not rational to wonder if you would bend your own ethics to serve him?
[quote]
Duh.[/quote]
So, God gets a free pass at being illogical?
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Logic fail. I don’t think you understand what time is or what ‘first cause’ means.
[/quote]
Debating fail. Asserting things =/= an argument. You’re ignorant of this field and your covering it by projecting.
[quote]
Precisely why I didn’t answer the question. You make too many assumptions about the ‘type’ of person I, or one would have to be. [/quote]
Actually, I didn’t make any assumptions. That’s why I asked you the question instead of just pressing forward. Do you think at all before posting?
Well, for you maybe, because that diverts attention away from your personal delusions and the extent to which you will act on them.
Actually, I’m indefinitely impressed with the Christian mind and it’s ability to take the impossible and twist it until it’s only improbable, then latch on to the improbable as though anything short of absolute contradictory proof is enough to verify your world view.
I’m interested, Pat, are you gnostic or agnostic in your belief in God?
I know you tried really hard there, but those questions just don’t sound unreasonable to me. Here you have an ultimate authority figure. Is it not rational to wonder if you would bend your own ethics to serve him?
[quote]
Duh.[/quote]
So, God gets a free pass at being illogical?[/quote]
Can anyone honestly say the idea of God is logical? Does Logic point to God or does God point to Logic? If Logic Pointed to God, he wouldn’t be God. If God pointed to logic, the scriptures would have been an eloquent argument. I’m trying to say that if God is real, how can anyone think God would conform to logic? Does a being who existed prior to existence sound logical to you? Does being born of a virgin sound logical to you? Does being 100% God 100% man sound logical to you? How about the Trinity? These are contradictions. God can get a “free pass at being illogical” because logic isn’t the end all-be all of truth. Logic isn’t a system equipped to deal with God because the limitations of language are more than enough to fall way short of understanding his nature.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
Logic fail. I don’t think you understand what time is or what ‘first cause’ means.
[/quote]
Debating fail. Asserting things =/= an argument. You’re ignorant of this field and your covering it by projecting.
[/quote]
Now your just desperate. First, I did explain what time is and why it isn’t relevant to the issue of the ‘first cause’ The fact that you did not understand it, is not my problem.
[quote]
You did press forward, remember? You moved along merrily as if I did answer it showing, what you think it means in your little 2 dimensional world. Not only that, you said you pressed forward in your last post.
Like I said, your only interest is to try and make christians look dumb by peddling the strawmen you find on these athiest websites as fact. The problem is you think you understand something you have no knowledge of. And that which you have no knowledge of seems impossible or improbable because the lack of understanding makes it seem impossible. Anything is possible and nothing is really as it seems.
One thing is certain, you don’t know shit about Christianity, Christians, the bible or anything religious for that matter.
Neither.
And that doesn’t sound unreasonable to you? Like I said you have to make all kinds of assumptions to ask the question like that. It’s unreasonable because it has no practical validity. Taking scant knowledge of a biblical incident, out of context, and analogizing it to a scenario that in now way represents the original scenario is not a valid test. If you knew the story, you would actually see the error. God wasn’t commanding Saul to kill a bunch of people because he felt like it. He was actually accommodating what Israelites and Saul wanted, when God set it up and told him what to do to accomplish it, he didn’t fulfill it like he was supposed to and hence pissed God off. Just like if you’re helping a friend and they aren’t listening or doing what needs to be done to help themselves.
That’s why it was a stupid question. God didn’t ‘command Saul to commit genocide’, he helped Saul and the people with what they begged for, and they partially pissed on what he told them to do to accomplish it. The back story changes what the story sounded like as you presented it, you demonstrated no knowledge of it what-so-ever, hambone.
[quote]
[quote]
Duh.[/quote]
So, God gets a free pass at being illogical?[/quote]
No nimrod, it means he’s not bound by it.
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Can anyone honestly say the idea of God is logical?
[/quote]
Uh, yeah. St. Paul?
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:<<< Can anyone honestly say the idea of God is logical? Does Logic point to God or does God point to Logic? If Logic Pointed to God, he wouldn’t be God. If God pointed to logic, the scriptures would have been an eloquent argument. I’m trying to say that if God is real, how can anyone think God would conform to logic? Does a being who existed prior to existence sound logical to you? Does being born of a virgin sound logical to you? Does being 100% God 100% man sound logical to you? How about the Trinity? These are contradictions. God can get a “free pass at being illogical” because logic isn’t the end all-be all of truth. Logic isn’t a system equipped to deal with God because the limitations of language are more than enough to fall way short of understanding his nature.
[/quote]Unbelieveable. Not bad man. IF we clarify that by “logic” is meant “sinful finite human logic”.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:<<< Can anyone honestly say the idea of God is logical? Does Logic point to God or does God point to Logic? If Logic Pointed to God, he wouldn’t be God. If God pointed to logic, the scriptures would have been an eloquent argument. I’m trying to say that if God is real, how can anyone think God would conform to logic? Does a being who existed prior to existence sound logical to you? Does being born of a virgin sound logical to you? Does being 100% God 100% man sound logical to you? How about the Trinity? These are contradictions. God can get a “free pass at being illogical” because logic isn’t the end all-be all of truth. Logic isn’t a system equipped to deal with God because the limitations of language are more than enough to fall way short of understanding his nature.
[/quote]Unbelieveable. Not bad man. IF we clarify that by “logic” is meant “sinful finite human logic”.
[/quote]
I agree. Logic can only point to the idea that God is possible and it has its place. But it seems that those who rely on logic as some kind of means to understanding God will arrive nowhere fast.
We are flawed and cannot grasp God’s Nature. Therefore, any system we can comprehend is also flawed in respect understanding God’s nature. Can we rely on tools of imperfection to grasp perfection? Perhaps God was trying to make a point when he said:
‘For nothing is impossible with God.’-Luke 1:37
Meaning what we think is illogical or what we understand to be possible through the lens of mere Man is not impossible for God. God can break logical rules (True God, True Man), Physical Law’s Rules’ (Walking on Water and raising the dead), Chemistry’s Law’s Rule (Water into Wine), Religious Law’s Rules (Laws of Moses), and Mathematical Law’s rules (Feeding of the five thousand with 7 loaves and two fish)