Yes, I’m assuming you think Paul does not follow Christ?
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Yes, I’m assuming you think Paul does not follow Christ?[/quote]
I’m not sure whether he does or not. What do you think and why?
- He believed in Christs Message (Faith)
- He wasn’t perfect, but knew this and still trusted in Christ. (Hope, piety)
- He lead thousands to Christ and healed them, therefore was aided in their salvation (Love)
- He demonstrated brilliant rhetoric in his Letters using God’s gift of reason (Knowledge, Wisdom)
- He specifically addressed how we should follow Christ (Prudence, counsel)
- He related to his Hebrew Brethren in his Letter to the Hebrews (Understanding)
- He recognized God’s grace, salvation, power, and love for us (Fear of the Lord)
- He was imprisoned for preaching the message of Christ (Fortitude, Courage)
He possessed and exorcised the Gifts of the Paraclete promised by Christ.
I think he followed Christ.
Now, I want it to be known that what most people think of “jews” are not people who follow Judaism. These are a race of people who descended from Cain, who Hijack various religious organizations in order to follow their master (Satan). They can manipulate the system so well because they are taught by “The God of this world” (Satan) They are in constant exile just as Cain was. They are evil, greedy, and worldy. This is why they obtain this stereotype, and make the Hebrew people look bad. They are the same people who hijacked and corrupted Judaism and served as the high priests during Jesus’ time. Why do you think these people hijacked Judaism? It’s because they knew they can’t be touched if they are “God’s chosen people”. Anyone who says anything bad about them is labled an “anti-semite” even though these people are NOT SEMITIC.
They answered him, ?Abraham is our father.? Jesus said to them, ?If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did.? They said to him, ?We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father?even God.? 42 Jesus said to them, ?If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.?-John 8:39-47
After 4 pages and 81 replies, it was about time…
Now folks, i really think this one has been properly nourished.
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
…and following Christ CANNOT mean more than one thing[/quote]
Then, pray tell, what does it mean?
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
And you consider that ^^ diatribe as based in “reason”? LOL!!
I don’t believe in invisible people with authority. Told you you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. [/quote]
Lol, yeah I guess it is pretty silly to wonder if the people around you whom worship a being that, at several times, demanded its followers to kill would, themselves, kill if they thought he ordered it.
… Oh wait, that’s completely reasonable. Never mind then.
Which part of what I said doesn’t apply to God? The invisible part, or the authority part? Because I can’t see him, so he is invisible and according to you he is the highest authority, sooooo… what’s the problem, Pat?[/quote]
Your problem is thinking God is “invisible”. Yes, you cannot see him, but you can see his effects (good fruit). Much like you cannot see wind, but you can see its effects. Although this is a rather juvenile analogy, it still holds that simply not seeing something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Would you dare to approach a Calculus problem using arithmetic? Of course not. So why use positivism or scientific method to validate/invalidate God? YOU CAN’T. The reason you don’t believe in God is because you seem to think that reality is confined to what can be proved using a system that wasn’t designed to prove God. So you’re trying to tackle a calculus problem using arithmetic. No wonder you don’t believe in God. If some brilliant man could “prove” God using scientific proof (the only type of proof you hold as true), then that being wouldn’t be God. It would be like a child exclaiming he solved a calculus problem using arithmetic.
[/quote]
So… God is an invisible authority figure. That’s really all I was trying to get out of this.
You don’t know me, yet you make so many assumptions about me. Don’t do that.
Do you think there is proof of God’s existence? If so, what is it?
This thread is really sunthin else. I am just not up to it now.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Now, I want it to be known that what most people think of “jews” are not people who follow Judaism. These are a race of people who descended from Cain, who Hijack various religious organizations in order to follow their master (Satan). They can manipulate the system so well because they are taught by “The God of this world” (Satan) They are in constant exile just as Cain was. They are evil, greedy, and worldy. This is why they obtain this stereotype, and make the Hebrew people look bad. They are the same people who hijacked and corrupted Judaism and served as the high priests during Jesus’ time. Why do you think these people hijacked Judaism? It’s because they knew they can’t be touched if they are “God’s chosen people”. Anyone who says anything bad about them is labled an “anti-semite” even though these people are NOT SEMITIC.
They answered him, ?Abraham is our father.? Jesus said to them, ?If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, 40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. 41 You are doing the works your father did.? They said to him, ?We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father?even God.? 42 Jesus said to them, ?If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. 43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. 46 Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? 47 Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.?-John 8:39-47[/quote]
More evidence of your ill education.
Jews are the children of Cain, huh? Righto.
Good grief, you are full of shit. I am sniffing troll.[/quote]
Not the Hebrew Israelites. I’m talking about the Jews. These are people who call themselves “Jews” but don’t practice Judaism nor do they have semitic blood.
“11For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brotherâ??s righteous. 13Do not be surprised, brothers,c that the world hates you. 14We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”-1 John 11-15
Just as Cain murdered his good brother Abel, His descendents murdered Christ, who descended from Seth. Why do you suppose Jesus told the Jews their Father was the Devil? Jesus was not talking to the Hebrew Israelites, but the people who hijacked Judaism and sold items for sacrifice in the Sacred Temple.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]Makavali wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Absalom was no “innocent son.”
I’ve never seen so many biblically ill educated dorks who insist on providing Bible commentary in all my life. Some of you people truly are ignorant and stupid. Like Pat and Sloth have said it’s virtually a worthless endeavor to discuss these matters with you. It’s like trying to discuss calculus with a first grader.[/quote]
Was he innocent of the sin of his father though?[/quote]
Read the story of his life. It’s actually quite fascinating. Both David and Absalom suffered the consequences of their actions.[/quote]
you don’t get it. there is no innocent or guilty according to christ. There is only guilty. He came for not the righteous but the sinners [Luke 5]. Everyone sins. That is what makes his sacrifice so powerful. The OT God killed the wicked. He also killed the innocents. Pharoh sins so OT God punishes who? The innocent children? What did Jesus teach about children. I am not “biblically ill educated” trust me. I provided examples. I am not defending atheism however. Atheism sucks and is illogical. However, I can see their concerns.[/quote]
You evidently are biblically ill educated.
He came not for the righteous because there is no such thing. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
[/quote]
I understand that. The Savior was referring to “The Righteous” aka those who think they are “holy”
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
And you consider that ^^ diatribe as based in “reason”? LOL!!
I don’t believe in invisible people with authority. Told you you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about. [/quote]
Lol, yeah I guess it is pretty silly to wonder if the people around you whom worship a being that, at several times, demanded its followers to kill would, themselves, kill if they thought he ordered it.
… Oh wait, that’s completely reasonable. Never mind then.
Which part of what I said doesn’t apply to God? The invisible part, or the authority part? Because I can’t see him, so he is invisible and according to you he is the highest authority, sooooo… what’s the problem, Pat?[/quote]
Your problem is thinking God is “invisible”. Yes, you cannot see him, but you can see his effects (good fruit). Much like you cannot see wind, but you can see its effects. Although this is a rather juvenile analogy, it still holds that simply not seeing something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Would you dare to approach a Calculus problem using arithmetic? Of course not. So why use positivism or scientific method to validate/invalidate God? YOU CAN’T. The reason you don’t believe in God is because you seem to think that reality is confined to what can be proved using a system that wasn’t designed to prove God. So you’re trying to tackle a calculus problem using arithmetic. No wonder you don’t believe in God. If some brilliant man could “prove” God using scientific proof (the only type of proof you hold as true), then that being wouldn’t be God. It would be like a child exclaiming he solved a calculus problem using arithmetic.
[/quote]
So… God is an invisible authority figure. That’s really all I was trying to get out of this.
You don’t know me, yet you make so many assumptions about me. Don’t do that.
Do you think there is proof of God’s existence? If so, what is it?[/quote]
Jesus is proof of God. Proof is only as good as the one who judges the proof. If you prove to me the sun is 93,000,000 miles away by citing an article from NASA, and I don’t accept it then I’m wrong. My opinion that begs to differ doesn’t change the truth in this matter.
If you are asking whether I can “prove” god using logic, then I would say I can only “prove” the idea of God’s existence. God does not conform to logic. Logic is not a system that is capable of proving God. If it was, then God would have incarnated volumes of logical arguments that proved his existence. Instead he sent THE WORD MADE FLESH. Immanuel Kant understood that the phenomenal world cannot tell you anything about the pneumenal world, because the pneumenal world cannot be described by phenomenal methods.
I love Bible conspiracy theories. It’s like “Yo bro, I heard you liked conspiracies, so I put a conspiracy in your conspiracy”
Someone should make a meme.
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
…and following Christ CANNOT mean more than one thing[/quote]
Then, pray tell, what does it mean?[/quote]
There are many ways to squat. There are front squats, olympic style squats, narrow back squats, wide back squats, Zercher Squats, and even cyclist squats. But who wants to just squat? Not even powerlifters sole squat. In order to be a bodybuilder you have to lift weights. The only way to be a Bodybuilder is to lift weights. If someone tells you that crossfit will make someone a bodybuilder, we would both scoff at that. Bodybuilding is achieved by one way (lifting weights). The way of Christ is one way If you want to follow him, listen to what he says and do it. You can’t claim to be bodybuilding if you aren’t lifting weights and you can’t claim to follow Christ unless you follow the way of the cross.
'Adherents of the white supremacist theology known as Two-Seedline Christian Identity hold that white people are descendants of Adam and are hence the chosen people of God. The Jewish people are said to be descendants of Cain and thus of Satan. This belief was developed by Wesley A. Swift, Conrad Gaard and William Potter Gale among others. The opposing faction is called One-Seedline Christian Identity and holds that all people are descended from Adam, but only Aryans (here meaning Northern Europeans) are truly God’s people.
Wesley A. Swift (1913-1970), was a former Methodist minister from Southern California. In the 1940s, Swift started his own church, later known as the Church of Jesus Christ Christian.
He was active in extreme right-wing groups, including the Ku Klux Klan, and developed a close friendship with prominent postwar anti-Semite, Gerald L. K. Smith. Because of the activities of Swift and associates such as Bertrand Comparet and San Jacinto Capt, Christian Identity increasingly became linked with extreme right-wing ideologies. Richard Girnt Butler, founder of the Aryan Nations, was a close California disciple of Swift.’
Surprise, surprise: from the DailyPaultard - an article on two-seed theory and the illuminati:
'I am convinced that the Illuminati are not fully human.
The Dead Sea scrolls confirm that Genesis 4:1 was tampered with, and Cain was actually the son of Eve and Satan.
Hence the origins of our psychopathic elite, and why they are not like us - appearing human but lacking that which makes us human; a conscience, a soul. They are incapable of ever hearing The Word, or becoming anything than their own evil selves (the reality of the nature of evil is quite different than the way it is portayed in movies, TV, etc.)"
http://www.dailypaul.com/68954/two-seed-theory-the-origins-of-the-psychopathic-elite
What a sorry state we are in when the last few sane men have to refute this sort of stuff from a majority of lunatics, liars, idiots and appeasers.
EDIT: From the link -
'John McCain"s “Merovingian” Bloodline"
Mc = Son of
So McCain = Son of Cain…does it make sense now?
Another clue as to what we’re up against!’
Amazing. And to think I thought the “Cain” derived from the Gaelic Cathain meaning warrior.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
'Adherents of the white supremacist theology known as Two-Seedline Christian Identity [/quote]
wow,
nailed it.
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]pat wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
Growing up Roman Catholic, I always had a difficulty reconciling the God of the Old Testament with the Jesus. I know this isn’t just me, for this inconsistency was noticed extremely early in the history of the church. Marcion of Sinope was the first Christian who pointed out this apparent difference. A long line of heretics followed his path, notably the gnostic movement. Eventually, they were squashed, but their writings have been retained in discovery of the Nag Hammadi Library. I have been catechized, attended Catholic school for 16 years, and still practice. To this day I cannot help but notice that OT God (YHWH) and Christ didn’t seem to match with their messages. I have done plenty of research regarding this matter. As much as I cannot stand Atheists, I understand their concern when they point out the rather bizaare behavior of YHWH, who seems to be rather petty and angry in the narratives of the old testament. Here are some examples/food for thought
[/quote]
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Jesus didn’t use the Tetragrammaton (the Holy name of God) because Jesus was an observant Jew. Jews didn’t pronounce the Tetragrammaton except by the High Priest, in the Holy Temple.
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Go actually read the Old Testament. God was EXTREMELY forgiving and VERY SLOW to anger. For example, he gave Pharoah 20 chances, slowly increased severity of things before moving on.
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I am Catholic (and a bad one at that) and anyone who sat through confirmation clas
ses for communion would not espouse the crap you have posted.[/quote]
First, Jesus was not a jew. If you are excommunicated from the Catholic church, then you are no longer a catholic. Jesus was put on trial for heresy/blasphemy, therefore excommunicated. Recall, there was not one type of “Jew.” Like christianity today, there were sects of Judaism. If you read your gospels, you’ll notice the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes, and Essenes had extremely diverse points of view. John the Baptist was likely an Essene. Like jesus, this man was committing blasphemy [according to mosaic law] so the high priests had it out for him since the start of his ministry. To say Jesus was a Jew is misleading because I don’t know if you mean he was a Semite or you he was a follower of the Law/mishnah. I agree he had semitic blood.
[/quote]
There is no formal removal of Judaism in mosaic law. Jesus was a Jew, they could kill him, but they could not make him not a Jew. Likewise, being excommunicated does not make you ‘not Catholic’. It simply means that you was out of communion with the Church and cannot participate in the sacraments. The only way to cease being Catholic is by choice.
Wow! First, Jesus said to forgive your neighbor ‘Seventy time seven times’. Second, he did very much punish David when he sinned, he killed his son for his sins and let him know it to boot.
And this is what I mean when I say that you didn’t read the bible. Where in hell did you get that God punishes the innocents, and never the bad guys? Seriously? God didn’t take his admonitions lightly, in the OT. The Chaldeans, the Assyrians? You know, they practiced child sacrifice and did lots of abominable shit, you saying God didn’t punish them?
I am curious where you where you got this stuff that God punished the innocents in the OT and not the guilty.
Correct, as well as science and all the stuff of education.
Being out of communion of the Church also means you cannot receive the Sacraments until that excommunication is uplifted. Now you cannot be a Catholic and excommunicated. These are mutually exclusive. Why? Because the only things you can do to get excommunicated are extremely serious crimes against humanity and heresy. So when you say “The only way to cease being Catholic is by choice” then your choice was to be excommunicated by doing the act that caused you to be excommunicated. By doing these acts, you are openly stating you are not Catholic, this is why you are excommunicated.
[/quote]
You need to brush up on your catechism or your Catholic Encyclopedia. I am not going to argue semantics with you. Excommunication doesn’t make you not catholic. Reconciliation with the church is all you need and you are welcome with open arms. You don’t have to get rebaptized or go through any other rite of initiation.
[quote]
I clearly said Jesus says to forgive “more than twenty times”. I know he said 77 times 7. I used the term “more than twenty” because of the claim that God gave pharoh “twenty chances”. 77 times 7 is also more than twenty times. This is my point. Obviously, Jesus means you should forgive your neighbor indefinitely. But it didn’t seem like the OT God did this. He saw evil, and then used his “chosen people” to execute evil against those people. This is opposed to Christ’s message. Your curious on where God punishes the innocent in the OT? You just gave an example. DAVID did something bad so God killed his INNOCENT SON. He punished his innocent son through an excruciating death that lasted for several days. Seems opposite of Jesus [/quote]
Damn son, you don’t need to be asking questions, you need to get to reading. You have some major misunderstandings of the OT, big time. God didn’t sit on a throne with wand and just sit their and whammy everybody that pissed him off.
He didn’t give Pharaoh any chances much less 20. Jesus said 70 times 7 times, which is an OT reference. You rolling in a heap of misinformation. So I don’t know what you really want from me or anybody on this forum? You have a lot of work to do. If you really want to understand the OT you need to get to reading it. All of it, not just a few choice passages…You can’t understand it just by cherry picking a few things that hair-lip you.
We don’t know what affliction David’s son had, but as a parent, David suffered more. He had to live with it, which is worse than dying. Talk to any parent whose lost a child and ask them if they would have rather been the ones who died.
[quote]Oleena wrote:
[quote]fibroblaster wrote:
This is opposed to Christ’s message. Your curious on where God punishes the innocent in the OT? You just gave an example. DAVID did something bad so God killed his INNOCENT SON. He punished his innocent son through an excruciating death that lasted for several days. Seems opposite of Jesus [/quote]
Thank god you brought that up.[/quote]
Why? What do you know about it?