Worst Gun Ban II

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]AndyG wrote:
Ha ha, so I’m a girl now. Is that why you wanted to put your cock in my mouth?

I’m quite happy living in Australia. I’m off for a surfing and fishing trip for 3 weeks. What the fuck is there to do in Ohio? Wait, I know what I could do there, waste my time posting one picture of myself and then make up a couple of stats for my profile. That will make me a hero like you!

Your picture just shows that you are another gun loving hick who places more emphasis on a silly little ego trip than on human life.[/quote]

That depends on whose life…

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/121908dnmetterrellshooting.75e0fade.html

[b]1 arrested, 1 dead after robbery attempt in Terrell park

04:41 PM CST on Thursday, December 18, 2008[/b]

[i]BY BLANCA CANTÚ / The Dallas Morning News
bcantu@dallasnews.com

A 19-year-old man who police say was involved in an attempted robbery Wednesday night in Terrell that cost another suspected robber his life was arrested today.
100 block of Lions Club Lane

Ryan Scott Patterson, 19, of Terrell was charged with aggravated robbery, said Capt. Arley Sansom of the Terrell Police Department.

Terrell police were dispatched to Ben Gill Park in the 100 block of Lions Club Lane about 10:20 p.m. Wednesday after receiving a report of a possible robbery and shooting, Capt. Sansom said.

A man told police that after walking his dog at the park, four males attempted to rob him at gunpoint. The man, a licensed handgun carrier, pulled his weapon, shot one of them and shot at the black truck the men were using, Capt. Sansom said.

Officers found Markee Lamar Johnson, 17, of Terrell on the ground with serious head injuries. He was taken to a nearby hospital and later transferred to Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, where he was pronounced dead.

A gun that police believe belonged to Mr. Johnson was recovered at the scene, Capt. Sansom said. Police said it was stolen during a previous burglary in Terrell.

The truck, which belongs to a family member of one of the suspects, was found in the 300 block of South Park Street, Capt. Sansom said.

The intended robbery victim, who was not injured, is not facing any charges and his name is not being released. The case will be referred to a grand jury, Capt. Sansom said.

Police are looking for two other men.[/i]

22

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I stopped reading when he implied the US is a polite society.[/quote]

So, … how’s Belgium doing lately? Government is just dandy I hear…

23

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
pushharder wrote:
AndyG wrote:
Is that gun a substitute for your penis?

You are obviously lacking male genitalia. Keep making up crap about gun free zones being havens for crims.

Off you goy little boy/girl, back to playing cowboys and Indians.

You can dance and croon otherwise all you want but the fact of the matter is in the areas of the U.S. where guns are prevalent in the general population, violent crime is relatively less; where guns have been banned or highly restricted it’s much greater - even where those bans have been in effect for quite some time.

And on a micro level, when was the last time we saw a shooting at a gun show?

Westroads Mall in Omaha (a gun free zone) on the other hand:

[/quote]

I did read once of an attempted robbery at a gun store once. While two on duty and I think two off duty cops were there. And one or two armed citizens, and an armed worker or two.

It was from the Darwin awards so you can figure how that turned out.

24

Pre ban shopping spree

Yugoslavian SKS - Purchased (cheap)- Not sure if these will actually be banned becuase they have a fixed magazine, but it was cheap. The Yugo version has grenade launcher sites and a blade bayonet. Very crude but cool gun.

M1 Carbine - Purchased. Fun little gun.

Ruger Mini - Bid in. Will have one before the end of the year.

M1 Garand - actively bidding. Will have one by the end of the year. Fixed mag so not sure on ban.

DPMS AR-15 - actively bidding. Will have one by the end of the year.

Egyptian Hakim - actively bidding. Not many around. 8mm Mauser should be fun.

FN49 - actively bidding but seem to be going for over a grand. Don’t want one that bad.

Remington 11-87 - actively bidding. Can’t beleive they want to ban auto loading shotguns. Needed a 12 gauge anyway.

AK - Maybe. Already have the SKS and could just modify to take AK mags. Prices are a bit high on these if you want a decent one.

SVT-40 - looking

Thompson 1927 - looking

Gewer 43 - looking

Vz.58 - looking

MAC-10, Tec-9, or Uzi - undecided. Mac-10 in .45 would be fun, and cheaper than Uzi.

Prices seem to be going up a bit but not a tremendous amount. AKs seem to be going for rediculous amounts, but everything else seems to be staying reasonable if you can find them. The nice thing is you are not going to lose money on a banned firearm.

I have read the proposed bill, but still can’t figure out what will happen with gun “kits”. Anyone think you will still be able to build an AK or AR? What happened in '94? I wasn’t into guns at the time, so I don’t remember.

25

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Pre ban shopping spree
[/quote]

I have no need for an “assault rifle” (lol are there really any countries out there supplying their military personnel with semi-auto rifles instead of the fully autos?), but I’m going to be picking one up out of principle.

The thing that gets me about the AKs is that the really good ones are as expensive as an AR15 and that’s nuts.

Anyone have experience with a Saiga 12? It’s a shotgun based on the AK action. Very overkill, but tempting.

26

[quote]Ren wrote:
In case all you gun-banning advocates were wondering what kind of path you want this country to head down with your agenda…here is a great example from the “gold standard” of gun control laws - UK:

If you want more news on that story look up tony martin.

I am pretty sure that had he lived in Texas, he’d have been given a 6-pack and a pat on the back.[/quote]

And that’s appropriate? The proper course of action is to open fire on an unarmed minor who is FLEEING? Texas is one of the only states to allow deadly force against those who are fleeing. Even Texas requires a reasonable belief that use of deadly force is the the only way to prevent the perpetrator from escaping with personal property. In the case of Tony Martin, these unarmed boys were trying to flee EMPTY-HANDED. Would not (and should not) fly even in Texas.

27

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Ren wrote:
In case all you gun-banning advocates were wondering what kind of path you want this country to head down with your agenda…here is a great example from the “gold standard” of gun control laws - UK:

If you want more news on that story look up tony martin.

I am pretty sure that had he lived in Texas, he’d have been given a 6-pack and a pat on the back.

And that’s appropriate? The proper course of action is to open fire on an unarmed minor who is FLEEING? Texas is one of the only states to allow deadly force against those who are fleeing. Even Texas requires a reasonable belief that use of deadly force is the the only way to prevent the perpetrator from escaping with personal property. In the case of Tony Martin, these unarmed boys were trying to flee EMPTY-HANDED. Would not (and should not) fly even in Texas.[/quote]

I personally wouldn’t fire in that case. You will possibly face a trial, civil and criminal, but the law is the law. I suspect this is in place as a type of deterrent to crime.

28

Tom and JS you guys are clueless about how the law works in Britain and the culture over there.

The British Labour party considers protecting the dregs of society at the expense of honest, decent people to be it’s most sacred duty.

The way the system works in Britain is like something out of a bad acid trip. Common sense and reason are foreign concepts to the British. Law enforcement in Britain does not work the way it does here.

If Mr. Martin had not opened fire on the gang that invaded his home, they would have been able to go to the police and told them that he had threatened them with an illegal firearm when they broke into his house.

The police would have immediately dispatched a firearms squad to go over to Mr. Martins farm to kill him.

So you can see that once Mr. Martin acted to put an end to the series of home invasions that he was suffering from he had no choice. Because in Britain the law is not on your side.

29

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Tom and JS you guys are clueless about how the law works in Britain and the culture over there.

The British Labour party considers protecting the dregs of society at the expense of honest, decent people to be it’s most sacred duty.

The way the system works in Britain is like something out of a bad acid trip. Common sense and reason are foreign concepts to the British. Law enforcement in Britain does not work the way it does here.

If Mr. Martin had not opened fire on the gang that invaded his home, they would have been able to go to the police and told them that he had threatened them with an illegal firearm when they broke into his house.

The police would have immediately dispatched a firearms squad to go over to Mr. Martins farm to kill him.

So you can see that once Mr. Martin acted to put an end to the series of home invasions that he was suffering from he had no choice. Because in Britain the law is not on your side.

[/quote]

I don’t care how shitty the law in Britain is. It makes Martin’s conduct more excusable but not very much. I find it impossible to believe that police would’ve been dispatched to ‘go over to Mr. Martin’s farm to ‘kill him.’’ Show me the evidence that this is how things are done in Britain. Any Brits who can confirm this?

What could have happened was an arrest and prosecution for illegal possession of firearms. A shitty law. But let’s not pretend this was a choice of ‘kill or be killed’ as opposed to kill or face criminal liability. Also, is it really very likely these robbers would have gone the police to report Martin’s possession of firearms? Would they not have faced prosecution for breaking and entering and attempted to robbery?

What I do agree on is that gun bans are shitty because, among other reasons. they make homeowners vulnerable to repeat robberies.

30

How about we take the situation in Britain and put it in America and replace “firearm” with “supersoaker full of fox urine.” I wonder what will happen to the perps?

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/strange/news-article.aspx?storyid=126039&catid=82

31

[quote]FlavaDave wrote:
How about we take the situation in Britain and put it in America and replace “firearm” with “supersoaker full of fox urine.” I wonder what will happen to the perps?

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/strange/news-article.aspx?storyid=126039&catid=82
[/quote]

Too bad they made an issue of this at all. Don’t know about Minnesota, but most places allow non-deadly force to defend property. I guess there’s a reasonability requirement. What this guy did seems reasonable. And he only ‘assaulted’ the kid after he tried to choke him. At least if you believe his story.

32

[quote]FlavaDave wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Pre ban shopping spree

I have no need for an “assault rifle” (lol are there really any countries out there supplying their military personnel with semi-auto rifles instead of the fully autos?), but I’m going to be picking one up out of principle.

The thing that gets me about the AKs is that the really good ones are as expensive as an AR15 and that’s nuts.

Anyone have experience with a Saiga 12? It’s a shotgun based on the AK action. Very overkill, but tempting.[/quote]

I have no need either, other than liking cool guns and buying them a bit in protest.

Gook AKs are a bit expensive these days. I just bought a yugo for way too much. I think the maadi (egyptian) ones are pretty good and about half the price. The saiga models are supposed to be pretty good but are not the same as other AK, ie parts interchange may be an issue. I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

An SKS is cheap alternative to an AK. You can convert them to accept AK mags. Like AKs, you probably want to look at russian and yugoslavian models.

Other ones I just picked up:

Remington 11-87 - 12 gauge
M1 Garand - .30-06
Ruger Mini - .223
DPMS AR-15 - .223
Hakim - 8mm Mauser

I should probably call it quits but there are so many cool guns I may not have a chance to buy again. I might actually sell the mini and get one in 6.8. I should sell the SKS now that I have an AK. I would also like someting in .308 (maybe a beretta BM59/62/69), a Ljungman in 6.5x55, and maybe a SAFN-50 in 7x57 mauser.

Both are pretty good sites to bid on guns. I got a pretty good deal on most of the guns I have bought recently. Really only overpaid for the AK, but what the hell.

33

[quote]dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.
[/quote]

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

34

[quote]Sifu wrote:
Tom and JS you guys are clueless about how the law works in Britain and the culture over there.

The British Labour party considers protecting the dregs of society at the expense of honest, decent people to be it’s most sacred duty.

The way the system works in Britain is like something out of a bad acid trip. Common sense and reason are foreign concepts to the British. Law enforcement in Britain does not work the way it does here.

If Mr. Martin had not opened fire on the gang that invaded his home, they would have been able to go to the police and told them that he had threatened them with an illegal firearm when they broke into his house.

The police would have immediately dispatched a firearms squad to go over to Mr. Martins farm to kill him.

So you can see that once Mr. Martin acted to put an end to the series of home invasions that he was suffering from he had no choice. Because in Britain the law is not on your side.

[/quote]
I didn’t realize this was in the UK and the particulars of the case. How I was trained and the law of Pa. would not allow me to shoot while fleeing once the threat was over. I would have to try to win that one in court.

For em to shoot, I need AOJ for self defense. They need the ability, have to have an opportunity to harm me, and the common man would have to feel a viable threat at that time. A good rule of thumb, if it happens in my home or business, I’m okay. There still might be some issues, such as someone being shot in the back. This can be argued successfully though. He turned as I fired and I still felt a viable threat would eb what I argued.

As for the law of the UK, I don’t even pay attention to their silly country. I’ve know for years that they were idiots in this regard. I was just assuming this was in the US and someone shot at someone fleeing.

In Pa., multiple opponents would meet the criteria for me facing a deadly threat. Also, multiple people int he home.

I almost faced a nit whit situation two weeks ago. 4-5 douchbag app. 14 year old boys broke into my 3rd floor apartment by hopping one roof to another roof. My 2nd floor tenant heard them in there but didn’t call me or the police. If I was called I would have been armed when I arrived at my office. And if I was threatened I would have been in my rights to defend myself.

Since I found this out the next day, this was not an issue. they didn’t damage anything, but as of now, I’m looking to find who was in there. They did some damage to my roof and I will attmept to collect it from my parents.

35

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

[/quote]

I hadn’t seen that. I don’t plan on transferring an illegal firearm. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at the firarms laws here, but it doesn’t appear to be illegal to sell or buy conversion kits. I’ll have to look a bit closer, thank for the hu.

36

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

I hadn’t seen that. I don’t plan on transferring an illegal firearm. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at the firarms laws here, but it doesn’t appear to be illegal to sell or buy conversion kits. I’ll have to look a bit closer, thank for the hu.[/quote]

The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 applies to both the manufacture and transfer. Mere possession of a kit to convert a gun to fully auto, and the gun that it is capable of converting is illegal. Before you get your get yourself into deep shit, I suggest you do some reading.

http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm

The only way that I know of for a private citizen to legally acquire a fully automatic weapon is to pay $200 to the federal government and fill out a Form 4.

37

[quote]Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

I hadn’t seen that. I don’t plan on transferring an illegal firearm. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at the firarms laws here, but it doesn’t appear to be illegal to sell or buy conversion kits. I’ll have to look a bit closer, thank for the hu.

The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 applies to both the manufacture and transfer. Mere possession of a kit to convert a gun to fully auto, and the gun that it is capable of converting is illegal. Before you get your get yourself into deep shit, I suggest you do some reading.

http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm

The only way that I know of for a private citizen to legally acquire a fully automatic weapon is to pay $200 to the federal government and fill out a Form 4.

[/quote]

Second this. Converting a weapon to full auto “for fun” isn’t wise…unless your idea of fun is seeing about 30 sets of ski masks and jackboots busting through your door. Even more unwise is posting your intention to do it on a public forum. Don’t screw with the ATF, they only play for keeps, and they don’t play fair.

38

[quote]Shaka Zulu wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

I hadn’t seen that. I don’t plan on transferring an illegal firearm. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at the firarms laws here, but it doesn’t appear to be illegal to sell or buy conversion kits. I’ll have to look a bit closer, thank for the hu.

The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 applies to both the manufacture and transfer. Mere possession of a kit to convert a gun to fully auto, and the gun that it is capable of converting is illegal. Before you get your get yourself into deep shit, I suggest you do some reading.

http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm

The only way that I know of for a private citizen to legally acquire a fully automatic weapon is to pay $200 to the federal government and fill out a Form 4.

Second this. Converting a weapon to full auto “for fun” isn’t wise…unless your idea of fun is seeing about 30 sets of ski masks and jackboots busting through your door. Even more unwise is posting your intention to do it on a public forum. Don’t screw with the ATF, they only play for keeps, and they don’t play fair.

[/quote]

I actually think I am going to sell the AK (haven’t even received it yet). I overpaid a bit and it is much cheaper to turn the SKS into a modern rifle. All US parts of course. I think I can manage 8 or 9 compliance parts. Not that I need to for mine, but you never know. I would rather have anohter gun in a different caliber and the SKS can be just as fun as an AK for a lot less.

It looks to me like buying or selling the conversion parts is not illegal, you just can’t have them installed on a functional gun. I guess you just can’t get caught shooting it or having the gun functional when they beat down the door?

39

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Shaka Zulu wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

I hadn’t seen that. I don’t plan on transferring an illegal firearm. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at the firarms laws here, but it doesn’t appear to be illegal to sell or buy conversion kits. I’ll have to look a bit closer, thank for the hu.

The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 applies to both the manufacture and transfer. Mere possession of a kit to convert a gun to fully auto, and the gun that it is capable of converting is illegal. Before you get your get yourself into deep shit, I suggest you do some reading.

http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm

The only way that I know of for a private citizen to legally acquire a fully automatic weapon is to pay $200 to the federal government and fill out a Form 4.

Second this. Converting a weapon to full auto “for fun” isn’t wise…unless your idea of fun is seeing about 30 sets of ski masks and jackboots busting through your door. Even more unwise is posting your intention to do it on a public forum. Don’t screw with the ATF, they only play for keeps, and they don’t play fair.

I actually think I am going to sell the AK (haven’t even received it yet). I overpaid a bit and it is much cheaper to turn the SKS into a modern rifle. All US parts of course. I think I can manage 8 or 9 compliance parts. Not that I need to for mine, but you never know. I would rather have anohter gun in a different caliber and the SKS can be just as fun as an AK for a lot less.

It looks to me like buying or selling the conversion parts is not illegal, you just can’t have them installed on a functional gun. I guess you just can’t get caught shooting it or having the gun functional when they beat down the door?

[/quote]

No. Included within the definition of “machinegun” is any part designed for use in converting a weapon to a machine gun.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/nfa/nfa_handbook/chapter2.pdf

This is an area of the law that is counter-intuitive and not crystal clear. I’ll say it again, you need to do some reading.

40

[quote]Shaka Zulu wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
Loose Tool wrote:
dhickey wrote:
I think I am going to convert mine to select fire just for fun.

I hope you are kidding. Ever heard of David Olofson?

http://gunowners.org/a122208.htm

I hadn’t seen that. I don’t plan on transferring an illegal firearm. Maybe I will have to take a closer look at the firarms laws here, but it doesn’t appear to be illegal to sell or buy conversion kits. I’ll have to look a bit closer, thank for the hu.

The National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 applies to both the manufacture and transfer. Mere possession of a kit to convert a gun to fully auto, and the gun that it is capable of converting is illegal. Before you get your get yourself into deep shit, I suggest you do some reading.

http://www.subguns.com/laws/laws.htm

The only way that I know of for a private citizen to legally acquire a fully automatic weapon is to pay $200 to the federal government and fill out a Form 4.

Second this. Converting a weapon to full auto “for fun” isn’t wise…unless your idea of fun is seeing about 30 sets of ski masks and jackboots busting through your door. Even more unwise is posting your intention to do it on a public forum. Don’t screw with the ATF…

[/quote]

Unless you’re Henry Bowman. :wink: