Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Exogenous testosterone in the dose which has an effect on your mentality will introduce hormonal effects off target. You are not only changing testosterone, you are also changing your estrogens and progesterone. Also, the male and female body function VERY differently when it comes to hormones and neurotransmitters. So taking the same thing as your husband won’t have the same effects.
To sum it up: if you want to do HRT, then do it with a physician who supervises you and where you get blood work and not only testosterone but also other hormones possibly replaced if needed. You can do that which is the smart way or you can self prescribe and administer and then come here every 3 weeks to complain about side effects and the emotional rollercoaster you experience.
It’s not easy to find a good HRT doctor but if you can find one, then I think the money is worth it. You also have to think about that you need supervision when you come off and want to get pregnant.
There’s a show called superhuman radio, the wife of the host is on HRT. There should be an episode in which she talks about her protocol and benefits. The show is definitely flawed sometimes but you could get good info. I’d try to get some female opinions and protocols too. Look if you can find YouTube videos from women who do it.
Hello, I realize this. is an old thread. My wife is wanting to start im/subq injections once to twice a week. She has been on topical with little improvement. She was going to start at 5mg once to twice a week. The issue is getting enough volume into even an insulin syringe. Using Test Cyp 200mg/ml. That is like .025ml. Any suggestions ? Thank You
My wife has considered it after a friend mentioned her testosterone treatment. Her friend injects 5mg weekly, not sure the type.
She’s been doing it for years, looks 30 at 42 and does not appear to have experienced any masculinization.
She’s a smoking hot blonde who has a feminine athletic look and would fit well in a late 90’s/early 2000’s Playboy.
She describes all the benefits of increased energy, motivation et cetera and according to her husband her libido and ability to reach satisfaction are off the chain.
Yeah. The warnings and caution expressed above were clearly well intended and coming from a good place. However, from what I’ve seen in my wife, there’s more upside than downside for aging women, and no, if you’re premenopausal, you don’t need to be concerned with estrogen and progesterone.
TRT is more straightforward and tends to produce better results for women than men actually, because moderate doses of testosterone don’t shut down their HPTA, which IMO is one of the big reasons men on TRT sometimes struggle with compromised well-being.
You’re right - should have said HPGA. I don’t have any studies supporting this, just a few observations:
Progesterone seems to be the most suppressive hormone for the female HPGA, able to single-handedly being everything to a halt in sufficient doses (depo-provera injection, mini-pill, etc)
Estrogen seems to be a close second, hence combined birth control pills contain estrogen and progesterone, and this combination fully shuts down their HPGA.
Hanging around the TRT_females subreddit you will observe that many premenopausal females are taking only testosterone and continuing to have normal cycles and normal levels of other sex hormones.
My observations in my own wife on 16 mg test enanthate weekly, continuing to have normal cycles and normal levels of estrogen and progesterone.
Interesting, I’m still learning about Progesterone.
I am curious, specifically about the claim that low-moderate doses of test is not shutting down HPGA function.
If low doses of test do not suppress other hormones (estrogen, progesterone), does it suppress natural test production?
*this is being asked in good faith. My understanding is that women’s natural test production is suppressed when taking TRT.
**I do think that test is able to act on it’s own without impacting estrogen or progesterone - I’ve seen this with my wife.
In women during the reproductive years, the two sources of androgens are the adrenal glands and ovaries (Figure 1). It is estimated that 33% of circulating testosterone is produced by the theca cells of the ovaries.2 The remaining testosterone is derived from androstenedione (A4), which is produced by both the ovaries and adrenal glands, and converted to testosterone in peripheral tissues. Testosterone is then converted by 5-α reductase to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) both in the granulosa cell of the ovary and in peripheral tissues such as the skin.
A4 and dehydroepiandrosterone (DHEA) are secreted by the ovaries and the adrenal glands. Dehydroepiandrosterone sulfate (DHEA-S) is only produced in the zona reticularis of the adrenal gland.3 DHEA is converted to A4. Adrenal androgen production is under ACTH (adrenocorticotrophic hormone) control whereas ovarian androgen production is under control of luteinizing hormone (LH). The circulating concentration of all androgens, except DHEA-S, is therefore influenced by the phase of the menstrual cycle. Of note, androgens have a circadian rhythm, albeit mild, in women.4
DHEA, DHEA-S and A4 are considered pre-androgens as their action at the androgen receptor is far less potent than testosterone. In women they can play a role in hyperandrogenic symptoms and signs because overall testosterone levels are relatively low.5 The DHEA-S concentration in a female increases from the age of 7-8 years (adrenarche), peaks in her 20’s, and then decreases and plateaus in her 50-60’s. While the control of DHEA-S production is mainly by ACTH, it has a long half-life and is the best biomarker for adrenal hyperandrogenism in most situations. DHEA-S levels are increased by prolactin and insulin-like growth factor 1, which may explain the hyperandrogenism associated with other disorders.5 Interestingly, circulating DHEA-S can be used as a precursor by ovarian follicles to produce DHEA, testosterone and DHT.6
Androgens have direct effects on reproduction via the androgen receptor and indirect effects through conversion to estrogen. The androgen receptor is present on cells throughout the hypothalamic-pituitary-ovarian axis.2 Therefore, high androgen levels can suppress hypothalamic and pituitary secretion of GnRH, LH and FSH directly and via aromatization to estradiol. Androgens also play a role in ovarian function, directly. Androgen receptor knockout mouse populations (complete,7, 8 granulosa cell specific9 and gonadotroph specific10) show decreased fertility, change in cycle length, poor follicle health, and decreased ovulation. Clinically and experimentally, excess androgens either from an endogenous11 or exogenous source12 result in increased follicle recruitment but then arrested follicle development. Androgen pretreatment during in vitro fertilization has resulted in improved ovarian response leading to increased pregnancy and live birth rates in some studies.13, 14 Optimal androgen concentrations are therefore required for ovarian follicle initiation, follicle growth, ovulation and oocyte maturation.
Some takeaways from above:
Only 33% of testosterone in women originates from the ovaries. The rest of serum testosterone in women is derived from the adrenal glands and peripheral conversion of androstenedione to testosterone. Some amount of androstenedione is also produced by ovaries, which would contribute to further reduction of serum testosterone if this were to cease.
Ovarian production of testosterone is stimulated by LH, therefore if you still have significant levels of LH, you’re still producing testosterone via the ovarian route.
“High androgen levels can suppress hypothalamic and pituitary secretion of GnRH, LH and FSH directly and via aromatization to estradiol.” This would be the mechanism whereby male doses of testosterone, as would be used by a trans male for example, stops menstruation. A dose of 50-70 mg weekly will stop menstruation in 84% of women after 6 months. A dose of 40 mg weekly will stop menstruation in 50% of women in that time: The Response of the Menstrual Cycle to Initiation of Hormonal Therapy in Transgender Men - PMC
Taking all of this together, I would conclude that a woman taking less than 20 mg weekly and continuing to have normal menstrual cycles has not impacted their natural production of testosterone significantly. Maybe it has dropped 15-20% if there is some partial suppression of LH, or maybe not.
Given this, it does seem reasonable that low doses of test would not cause HPGA shutdown.
I’ll further add that shorter acting esters of testosterone (cream or test prop injection are they only two ive looked at) are shown to have less shutdown than longer acting esters.
It seems like women should probably be taking <=15mg/wk Test Prop to minimize impact on their natural hormone system.
*i would have said <=20mg, but prop is about 22% more potent than cyp and 15 is a nice round number.
It also helps that prop is always brewed at lower concentrations. Drawing 2mg at 250mg/ml is no small feat, but at 100mg/ml - not so bad.
Thank you for taking the time to write this out. I very much appreciate the conversation.
