Witnessing Fatalities

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]Dandalex wrote:

[/quote]

I really wish I didn’t read your post.

I’m pretty sure I’ve seen a guy get killed- he got thrown out of a bar by the bouncers and slammed his head on the concrete… big pool of blood spread out behind his head, and he wasn’t moving. I’m not sure how it ended up, but I truly thought he was dead. If he’s not I’m surpised.

And while I am in no way comparing it to people or some of the scenes written about here, I have held two of my dogs while they died. It is remarkable to see something so full of life, with such a distinct personality, that you’ve had for so long, and watch the life slip out of their body. It is a heartbreaking thing.

And that, my friends, is why we drink.[/quote]

It is remarkable to see something so full of life, with such a distinct personality, that you’ve had for so long, and watch the life slip out of their body.

  • I don’t know how I feel about that sentence. I’m really trying to wrap my head around it.

My training partners in the Police, and has told me some really harsh stories. The two that stuck with me the most, so god knows what must be like for him:

One man (a kidnapping) handcuffed to a radiator, had been shot. When the police found him 3 weeks later, half the body had melted onto the radiator.

The second, a road accident, mate was first on the scene and was telling me the bloke was dead but didn’t relise it yet. Apperently was so bad they refused to let the family identify him until they could “tidy him up a bit”

The only other one was my Dad turning up at a property to investigate a gas leak, breaks into the property, after not getting a response, walks in and finds a body melted into the bed.

The most bizarre death I have ever witnessed was at a bodybuilding show last year. Ronnie Coleman had come to visit Australia and me and a few friends wanted to go watch the IFBB Victorian Championships and during the pre-judging one of the competitors in the masters category (Lord bless his soul) collapsed on stage and was twitching, the venue was cleared out, paramedics rushed in performing CPR, and he was taken to hospital. The show continued after about an hour and later on that night we found out that he had died.

[quote]Carlitosway wrote:
If anything, all these stories and thoughts give me a bigger kick in the ass to not waste time in my life and to cherish those I love. Anyone at any time can be touched with the grim hands death. [/quote]

This.

[quote]TDavis123 wrote:
My training partners in the Police, and has told me some really harsh stories. The two that stuck with me the most, so god knows what must be like for him:

One man (a kidnapping) handcuffed to a radiator, had been shot. When the police found him 3 weeks later, half the body had melted onto the radiator.

The second, a road accident, mate was first on the scene and was telling me the bloke was dead but didn’t relise it yet. Apperently was so bad they refused to let the family identify him until they could “tidy him up a bit”

The only other one was my Dad turning up at a property to investigate a gas leak, breaks into the property, after not getting a response, walks in and finds a body melted into the bed.[/quote]

The way you describe “Bodies Melting” is kinda…well,REALLY Gross.

I think mine could be the most tragic one so far on this thread. I stopped at a gas station to get gas and I was holding my two year old son, standing outside waiting for the tank to fill up. Then I see some motorcycle cops…they are stopping traffic for a funeral procession. They were stopping traffic waiting for the main car to go by and then racing to the next intersection.

Well the main car with the coffin passed and was making a turn…at this time one of the motorcycle cops comes speeding up probably at 60 mph…probably not realizing that the car is turning…it hits the car carrying the coffin. He goes under the car…his head over it. It was horrendous…my two year old asked if he had been hurt quiet innocently. I said he had but he wasn’t in pain right now…

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Been there done that and have 20 more years of seeing it.[/quote]

X 2 That why sarcasm and sick sense of humor are developed in the medical field. Whats sad is when you can’t remember the first one because it has been so long ago.

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Been there done that and have 20 more years of seeing it.[/quote]

X 2 That why sarcasm and sick sense of humor are developed in the medical field. Whats sad is when you can’t remember the first one because it has been so long ago. [/quote]

Agreed, you really don’t remember them after awhile. And the sarcasm and I would call it “Firehouse” humor I have to leave at work. Because my circle of friends outside of work just don’t get it.

First, the Freebirds on South Sheppard is better than 1960. And Freebirds beats the hell out of Chipotle.

Second, I’ve been a volunteer firefighter and first responder for 13 years. You never forget the first time you see someone die and it never does fail to effect you in some way no matter how mnay people you do see die. I think when it does quit phazing you, it’s time to quit and get some help.

Thick skin and a gallows sense of humor helps but also realizing it is the natural course of things for people to die. We don’t get to pick how it happens.

I would say the two worst calls I’ve worked were #1. a 2 month old infant who aspirated on milk, did CPR for over an hour before the doctor called it. I have two kids of my own. #2. 20 yr old daughter of a friend who wrecked out and burned. Everything below the knees was burned away, we couldn’t determine at first what was remains and what was debris in the car, the fire had consumed quite a bit. She was basically a charred skeleton. For some reason I’m always the guy who goes in and gets the bodys out.

I’ve thank fully never seen anything like this face to face. I would absolutely hate to as I know it would scar me for life.

Sadly when I was a young kid with my buddy on the net, we found a few videos that showed us people being murdered brutally. That was absolutely ridiculous, I was so mad I had witnessed it as I knew it wasn’t something my eyes were supposed to see at that age or at any age for that matter. To this day, I still hate being reminded of those scenes. Friggin internet… Can ruin a person.

I haven’t witnessed a horrific or fatal injury.

However, I almost witnessed a fatality first-hand…my own.

I was 7 years old. I got hit with a yard dart between my shoulder and my neck. Dr. said it was one inch for piercing some major artery or vein.

We lived no less than 20 mins from an ambulance.

Sometimes I picture myself standing there with a hole in my shoulder, blood fountaining in the middle of the yard, everyone panicking.

Twenty-five years later, having come within an inch of dying skews your perspective. Especially when you nearly died 3 times by age 7 (the other two times less spectacular).

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]belligerent wrote:
Never seen one thank God. Years ago somebody posted the Cory Bergh video on here and I was dumb enough to click on it and watch it. Big mistake.

Do emergency personnel eventaully become desentitized to the sight of gore? [/quote]

It does start to lose some of it’s initial shock value. Your mind starts to focus on what needs to be done to stabilize or save a life.

We all deal with the event after, some talk, others internalize, and the rest deal in other ways.[/quote]

That about sums it up for me…

Party like it’s 1999… was coming home from a New Years party as it ticked into 2000… Wife was driving as I had a couple too many (If I have 2 beer, I won’t drive)… The rain was POURING down and the car was hydroplaning all over the highway… We got a turn in the highway and saw cars backed up…

I notice this guy walking towards oncoming traffic, covered in blood…

A few feet ahead, I see their vehicle slammed into a rock wall, half in the ditch with his girlfriend hanging outside the vehicle…

I had my wife pull over and I just bolted… Checked the guy out, he was fine, just a minor head wound, so I had him sit down at the vehicle and apply pressure to his wound while I took care of his girlfriend…

All of this going on and NOBODY stops to help…

My wife is on the phone to 911 for assistance…

His girlfriend went through the front windshield, slammed back into her chair and then slammed through the side window and was hanging out of the car…

She couldn’t move, but was concious, so I did my best to take care of her, while standing knee high in a ditch full of FREEZING water…

Cops show up (first on scene) and I yell to them to get their first aid kit and a blanket - to which they replied “Oh, we don’t have anything with us”…

At this point, I’m not sure who’s in a state of shock, after hearing that…

I told one of the cops to go make sure the guy is still OK on the other side of the vehicle and to make sure he doesn’t get up and start walking around… Thank god he does what he’s told…

So I continue to keep the guys girlfriend concious, make sure she’s OK and not in any danger and keep her out of the rain that was pouring down, till the paramedics showed up…

So from the moment we showed up, till the cops showed up, 20 minutes blew by and not one single motorist stopped to help… The accident occurred on THE busiest highway we have and I swear, it looked like rush-hour traffic, and not one person stopped to help…

For me, it was just strange… I have first aid training, but had never used it, but I just knew we had to stop and help out and I just acted… I know it sounds strange, but it was like I saw through the blood and gore and just saw the person and they needed help, so I was never really traumatized over it… I never really thought more of it, aside from wondering if the girl was OK in the end…

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:

[quote]DJHT wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Been there done that and have 20 more years of seeing it.[/quote]

X 2 That why sarcasm and sick sense of humor are developed in the medical field. Whats sad is when you can’t remember the first one because it has been so long ago. [/quote]

Agreed, you really don’t remember them after awhile. And the sarcasm and I would call it “Firehouse” humor I have to leave at work. Because my circle of friends outside of work just don’t get it.[/quote]

I just bring the funny stuff to the outside friends. The death and drama is for the guys you work with. I really wish I could remember the first time I saw someone die, just way to many to remember. I have faith and I will leave it to that. I do remember all the kids when you work ER for 14 years and I will always remember the mothers running up to the doors carrying a dead child. There is no sound like the screaming of a mother when you tell them you couldnt save their child.

I count myself fortunate that I never got to see a dead person until I was in my late thirties. When I was 14, I was on a school trip to Germany and saw a man running around on fire at the side of the Autobahn (we were in a coach travelling in the opposite direction) - that was very surreal. I don’t know what happened to him - his car had an engine fire so I guess he’d caught his jacket alight while trying to deal with it. Hopefully he was OK.

I was also on another trip to Germany a couple of years ago and our bus hit an elderly cyclist and he went under. It looked bad, but fortunately he didn’t go under the wheels though he broke his pelvis and had some other injuries. The emergency services were superb - they dealt with it lightning fast, took us to the police station and offered counselling to those who were traumatised by it, and once we’d got a new driver we were on our way again.

The only death I saw was when I left my house one day to go for a run and there was a dead motorcyclist in the road. Lots of people there, and an ambulance - apparently he’d hit a bollard. His helmet was off and he was just lying there with a trail of blood running from his mouth to his ear. Eyes were open but it was obvious to me that no one was home. I don’t know why they hadn’t covered him.

I didn’t stop - I really didn’t know what to do so I just went for my run anyway. I felt very odd for a few days. It was in December and I couldn’t help but think of his loved ones and their unopened Christmas presents. Flowers appeared by the side of the road for the next three years so I know he didn’t make it.

I’ve never seen some one get killed, but one time when I was about 15-16 I was in a rubber speed boat taking sailing lessons. It was a boat designed to house a 25Hp engine, but the guys at the school put a 40 on it. It’d accelerate so fast that the front half of the boat would come right up out of the water, and it could then turn on a dime.

In a show of horseplay, the person steering would make sharp turns to cause a large wake to rock the boats of the sailors. All fun and games, until a female instructor got hurt. She was literally launched off the side of the boat as it made a sharp turn/maneuver. Her life jacket pulled her up to the surface so fast, that she got caught in the boats motor.

Luckily, it only hack off the radial side of her arm and mangled her hand up. where her radius was, there was nothing but bits of bone, hanging flayed muscle, tendon, and arteries/veins. I say it was lucky, because that could easily have been her face/head. We rushed back to shore while I sat in the boat trying to help the adults with first aid. I think I went into a sort of shock after because I was kind of not very talkative afterwords, and I didn’t want to go to sleep that night, so I stayed up all night playing video games.

I’m happy because the memory is kind of fuzzy, except for like hyper in-focus moments. The sound of a human getting run over by a boat i think will be something I’ll still be able to remember clearly when i’m like 80+

Good news is that she survived the ordeal. The surgeon worked a masterpiece with what he had. he was able to reattach all kinds of muscle and nerve so that she’d have a functioning hand. The girl took up needlepoint to keep her dexterity and she does hoolla-hooping as a hobby, she even does fireshows with it while it’s on fire.

[quote]Dandalex wrote:
Well, as it has been mentioned shock value tends to go down with time.

I would tend to say that it goes away for most in the medical field faster than you would expect. This would be especially true for people who are exposed to it on a regular basis. ER and ICU staff tend to be the most exposed within the hospital setting but death, expected and unexpected, is a frequent event within general hospitalized population.

Whether it is because we see so much of it or that we have a job to do and that thinking that the patient is a person, a human being which is going through something atrocious or life-threatening is too distracting or simply because most of the time that you are on-call you are so tired you do not feel anything beyond wanting to go back to lay down and sleep (which I never thought could happen before I experienced it). Interestingly, these -dying biological machines- I work on to save/bring back in the acute setting only really become -real people- when I meet their family either to discuss prognosis, cessation of treatment or death because at that point at that point the immediate life-threatening situation is either terminated (improving or death), stabilized or sufficiently advanced that discussion for continuation or cessation of treatment is acutely important.

It is funny are we are made. I remember the first cadaver I saw at 6yo (my dad has been a GP and coroner for as long as I can remember, so I have helped him around and the funeral crews who pick up the bodies before and during my medical training, I have done my share of picking up or un-hooking cadavers and doing physical exam on natural death scenes, suicide scenes, car accidents, removing millions of maggots and insects from putrefying cadavers and so forth). I remember the first person I saw die before me prior to medical training but after that I do not remember the first pronouncement of death I did as a doctor and I do not remember the first patient for which I ordered the cessation of cardiopulmonary resuscitation manoeuvres which are events you would think you would remember.

Children are always the hardest to get over I think. My mom tells me of night more then twenty years back when my father came home from a scene where four children and a teenager had burned to death because of a stupid kitchen fire. He came in, did not say a word to my mother and went in my room where I was sleeping and hugged me and fell asleep holding me.

A great many things are too easy to forget, too many memories fade away that should not. But other things stay engraved in your mind much longer than you would expect.

One event that still makes me fight back tears many years later is a discussion me and my attending had on a Friday afternoon with a terminally ill 22 year-old bone cancer patient (and her family) in near constant, difficult to control pain, which I saw, spoke to and examined everyday for a month on the ward, whose only wish was to go home in the end to be with her family and friends who had come from abroad to say goodbye so she could die at home, in a happy place, surrounded by loved ones.

She understood very well that the end was near but her family could not bear seeing her at home because she would start bleeding on and off and required frequent platelet transfusions (even though in the end they had become ineffective (she had developed antibodies) after so many transfusions) and her parents could not stand the notion of seeing here bleed at home and not being able to do anything about it.

I remember standing there as my attending was telling her that she was too sick to go home (so as to spare her the fact that her family could not stand seeing her at home). But I think she understood it or knew it anyway.

I was heartbroken and trying to remain stoic and professional in front of something I found unthinkable, I remember thinking: We are telling this young girl who has been so brave, so resilient, so selfless who spent the last months of her life in ever growing pain in a small, drab, dark hospital room, breathless because of ever accumulating water in her lungs, that she cannot go home again, that we are denying her her last simple wishes and that she will die in that same little dark hospital room. The look on her face as my attending spoke made it difficult for me to breathe.

I wanted to shout to her parents: -You can only die once. Once it is done, you cannot come back and do it right the next time. At least give her that…- But I could not say that. Who am I to tell parents who are seeing their child slowly dying that they should just suck it up when they know they cannot do it and know that they will regret this for the rest of their lives?

After we got out of the room I felt empty and numb. I finished the day in a dazed, absent state and when I got home I did not know what to do with myself. I walked around in my apartment for a few hours sitting down than getting up every so often, turning on and off the TV every few minutes, picking up the phone and putting it back down, feeling that I should tell someone, say something, but every time realizing that there was nothing to be said, that it would not change anything. Nothing felt right.

I did not sleep that night until the morning and could not do anything or feel anything until the next Monday. Luckily I was not on call that weekend but Monday came other people were sick.

She passed away a few weeks later in that dark little room, her parents by her side with pictures of her friends and family plastered all over.

She was not three years younger than me.

What can you say when you hear a young 32 year-old woman going into irreversible respiratory failure shouting with her last breaths: -I don t want to die. Mom, please, I don t want to die.-

As I write this I still experience that sadness and emptiness. It is not cathartic. There is no right answer to this. It just -is-.

Death, blood, gore and cadavers are things that were, they do not exist anymore but I think that disease and pain and observing a personâ??s loved ones seeing their lives being torn apart by the death of that person mark you very deeply and for a long time, for you see it, you experience it, you live it.

Helplessness before death and pain remains unbearable. You can work around it, postpone it, block it for a while but it remains there, unadulterated. At least it does for me.

AlexH.
[/quote]

I was fine until I read this sentence:

What can you say when you hear a young 32 year-old woman going into irreversible respiratory failure shouting with her last breaths: -I don t want to die. Mom, please, I don t want to die.-

I was the crew foreman on a cell site in Southern IL and one of my tower hands fell 280’. He was kicking and screaming as he fell for what seemed like forever. It was weird because his arm was straight up in the air like it was instantly rigamortis his head was so flat, shoes gone, jeans ripped all from the impact. I remember thinking I have to see if I can help him but from about 10’ away I could tell all hope was lost… I was so panicked and life was surreal, I was sick and had nightmares for weeks. Death sucks…

Many of us have seen some horrific events, whether its seeing co-woker freefall 280 feet to his death, a girl getting her harm mangled by a motorboat blade, a decapitating motorcycle-car accident that hardly fails to make its mark.

I wanted to reflect on what FightingIrish mentioned for it is something I’ve reflected time and time again since the first time I saw somebody die before my eyes.

—And while I am in no way comparing it to people or some of the scenes written about here, I have held two of my dogs while they died. It is remarkable to see something so full of life, with such a distinct personality, that you’ve had for so long, and watch the life slip out of their body. It is a heartbreaking thing.----

Probably some 10-12 years back when I must have been 15 or 16 years old the wife of a family friend was dying of generalized breast cancer. A woman I had known for good number of years, who’d bake me cookies when we went over and who took care of me for a month when I was down with mononucleosis while my parents where away.

On the day of her passing my father was called to her as a friend and doctor, who brought me with him. As we entered her bedroom, I barely recognized her. She did not look much like herself, chemo and cachexia had taken their toll. Her husband was holding her hand talking to her, telling her how much he loved her, that her children were there near her, telling her stories of their live’s together. You could tell she was mostly comatose by then either from morphine or brain mets. Her breathing was shallow and the breaths were so far between that I always expected it to be her last one but she would take another and then it would repeat itself. Eventually it became even more irregular as breaths 20 seconds apart can be. I would catch my breath everytime but she would take another, bracing myself for what was to come. Agonal breathing I would later learn it was called.

I readied myself to face the death of someone I care for with implacable stoic impassibility. I just knew I could have complete control over my emotions for I felt I was completely detached. For some reason, I figured the highest goal to achieve that day was to emulate my father whom I imagined in my idealized mind would remain the imperturbable stone-like composure of the physician facing death yet again.

I do not know how long it went on but at one point she to a breath and exhaled and we waited and waited and it never came and nearly all of us present in the room, her husband, her two sons, myself and my father realized that she was gone. A subtle change had occurred in her face, her muscle tone, probably undiscernable to the conscious mind but unmistakable nonetheless. One moment she was there breathing and dying and then nothing. One instant she was there, the next but a body which was not her.

In the instant that I realized that she was gone I was hit by a Mack truck in the chest, my throat tightened so much and my vision blurried with tears. As I turned over to my father, I simply saw him bend his head down looking at his watch, noting the time of death. I left the room as her family were hugging her one last time and hugging themselves, crying. I went to the bathroom to wash my face and realized I couldn’t stop crying even if I wanted to. The cold water from the faucet helped.

As I looked at myself in the mirror, my face cold and dripping I remember being amazed at the strength of the pure emotion that I felt, me which was always said to be cold, calculating and detached. And then I --understood-- why people believe we have souls, why people have buried their dead since paleolithic times.

One instant everything is fine and normal and the next a being has gone and something has just plunged its cold hand and is gripping your heart and throat in a vice.

That transition, for those who have lived it, I believe is unforgettable.

The next time that it happened, with a complete stranger, though I do not really remember who he was or what he was dying from, the feeling where pretty much the same but that time I was able to do my job.

Funny how a few lines can turn into this. Perhaps that when talking about death it is difficult to do it justice with just a few words to convey meaning. Meanwhile, an understanding silence is probable to most appropriate response to topics such as this.

AlexH

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Been there done that and have 20 more years of seeing it.[/quote]

x2. Except a few more than 20 years.

[quote]TheChosenOne17 wrote:

[quote]lanchefan1 wrote:
Been there done that and have 20 more years of seeing it.[/quote]

x2. Except a few more than 20 years.[/quote]

x3, and Ive got 32 years till I collect full penchant =P

Also, 1960 is one of the most worthless streets in the entire greater Houston area, right there with Westheimer, and just about all the major highways…