[quote]kroby wrote:
Shire, my man! Everybody, this is Shire. He means well. He’s trying to understand the whole “why” to the AAS dilemma.
[/quote]
Sorry Kroby but I have to say this guy’s an asswhipe.
Still, that aside, I hope he over comes his ignorance and improves his attitude.
I think what has pissed a lot of the vets here off is that your first posts on the thread had so many piss-off ignorant, media fueled assumptions on it that it was rather evident you haven’t tried to think critically about this FOR YOURSELF instead of relying on big brother media to think for you. Now, that’s YOUR fault, and no one else’s.
Independent critical thought is the one thing that allows people to assert their independence from dogma, or reach their full potential in life, in any field. People who display a complete lack or desire to do their own research or at least try to reason through things on their own are either a) ignorant to their shortcoming or b) lazy. A) is a product of a newb and is incredibly irritating, but fixable. B) is something I and everyone else damn well HATES.
It implies an apathetic unfulfilling existence and demonstrates a willing acceptance of whatever other people tell you. In other words, you’re a puppet and a follower to whoever spouts the best rhetoric. And we f&$king hate that kind of person.
Furthermore, your phrasing in the original post was somewhat inflammatory and directed. You should really work on word choice if you want to avoid flamings. (“do you even” --implication : we do not and are stupid, etc, etc)
This is not supposed to be a personal attack on you, but this is what we all read when we read the hundreds of posts just like yours every single month. Now, you may be sincere, but you need to demonstrate an open mind before we can be expected to care enough to give you serious answers. That doesn’t mean you have to consider doing 'roids, it just means you have to be a man and be open to new positions and thoughts.
"He who will not reason is a bigot; he who cannot is a fool; and he who dares not is a slave."�??Sir William Drummond
“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.”–Aristotle
“To read without reflecting is like eating without digesting.”
“We find comfort among those who agree with us; growth among those who don’t.”
“Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.” – Voltaire
–this is applicable to almost everything: alcohol, smoking, and AAS included.
Answers:
Because I can.
I understand exactly what is happening to my body. As does pretty much every vet here. All adverse sides are merely short term and temporary as long as AAS is not patently abused and a mature adult is using. Even then, sides are practically 100% reversable unless you do it for years (sometimes decades) on end. In fact there are numerous health benefits with moderate usage, and numerous medical applications of hormones. All bets are off when you’re an idiot teenager.
Because they can. IF you put in the time and effort for years on end, consistently, painstakingly, then you have the right to use it if you so choose. You paid your dues. Plenty of great physiques have been made naturally, plenty with steroids. The only thing that matters is that they’re great physiques and they inspire us.
I don’t care at all about anything else. It’s not like you just inject yourself and sit around waiting to become Arnold. That’s the thing I hate about most people: they think that just becuase you injected a couple of cc’s into yourself you a) don’t need to work hard and b) your hard work is somehow less valid than other people’s total LACK OF RESULTS and mediocrity.
If you want to reach your goals faster, then it’s your choice. If you want a quick boost, your choice. If you’ve been stuck at a plateau for 10 years, your choice. If you want to surpass your natural limits (also an excuse used by idiot newbs and teens), your choice.
Finally, FYI all this is coming from a natural non-user (for now). I may consider a cycle in the future, but I don’t need one now, or for a while yet anyway. The point is that I should have the choice in the first place, and that they have very legitimate benefits and uses medically.
Aragorn thanks for taking the time to type that up…actually you made some points that really strike home for me. The thing is I am independent in thinking for the most part on other issues.
However, in honesty I know a few people who have ruined their lives due to alcohol abuse/drugs(not that i’m saying Steroids is on par with the aforementioned).
So I kind of get really biased in my views on drugs of any sort…my fault I know.
I guess I typecast people here as meatheads and again i’m sorry for being offensive.
Hagar i’m not that bad 
Thanks once again.
[quote]Shire wrote:
Hagar i’m not that bad
Thanks once again.[/quote]
OK man, I will call a truce. I didn’t realize you only 20. I was a hell of a lot worse at your age. You probably learned something from this whole ordeal wether it be about steroids or phrasing questions in a more humble manner. At least your your open minded about these things by listening to what the others are saying.
[quote]Hagar wrote:
Shire wrote:
Hagar i’m not that bad
Thanks once again.
OK man, I will call a truce. I didn’t realize you only 20. I was a hell of a lot worse at your age. You probably learned something from this whole ordeal wether it be about steroids or phrasing questions in a more humble manner. At least your your open minded about these things by listening to what the others are saying.
[/quote]
I dont know what your talking about hagar, im 20 and I know it all…seriously.
j/k
[quote]Shire wrote:
I don’t comprehend why the steroids route has to be used when for example we had greats like Steve Reeves accomplish brilliant physiques employing an all natural diet? (without the steroids)[/quote]
I’m ancient enough to say Reeves was one of my early role models to lift weights. The man was born with unsurpassed genetics for bodybuilding, which never left him even into his senior years. Reeves did not use “anabolic steroids”, as Dr. Zeigler created the first, Dianabol, well after Reeves had already built his championship/superstar physique. D-Bol simply did not exist then, However…
Injectable Testosterone did exist, and was available as an experimental compound for medical use.
It was not “illegal” (which is irrelevant anyway), and Doctors have friends, some who may even be Coaches…
You do the math…
BlackSnake I honestly hope he didn’t supplement with testosterone.
Actually have you heard of Manohar Aich(Indian)-He won the Mr Universe in 1952, if so what do you think of him?
There are rumors that Reeves used some form of test, this stems from other bodybuilders, but in the end what does it matter?
[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
Shire wrote:
I don’t comprehend why the steroids route has to be used when for example we had greats like Steve Reeves accomplish brilliant physiques employing an all natural diet? (without the steroids)
I’m ancient enough to say Reeves was one of my early role models to lift weights. The man was born with unsurpassed genetics for bodybuilding, which never left him even into his senior years. Reeves did not use “anabolic steroids”, as Dr. Zeigler created the first, Dianabol, well after Reeves had already built his championship/superstar physique. D-Bol simply did not exist then, However…
Injectable Testosterone did exist, and was available as an experimental compound for medical use. It was not “illegal” (which is irrelevant anyway), and Doctors have friends, some who may even be Coaches…
You do the math…
[/quote]
Great post.
[quote]Shire wrote:
BlackSnake I honestly hope he didn’t supplement with testosterone.[/quote]
You should not give in to emotionalism in this case. I encourage you to lean towards being a critical thinking realist. Again, Reeves did not use anabolic steroids. Testosterone is not a steroid, but a natural substance your body produces. There is no tarnish on the legacy of Reeves, and as you become more educated and mature, you will look back and understand that testosterone is a good thing, not a demon.
Like any tool, it is the use vs. abuse that makes the difference (you can use a hammer to build a house or kill a man, the hammer remains neutral)…Go to this link with an open, knowledge seeking realist mindset, and watch this video:
http://www.vsocial.com/video/?d=24490
[quote]
Actually have you heard of Manohar Aich(Indian)-He won the Mr Universe in 1952, if so what do you think of him?[/quote] I know there were multiple Mr. Universe bodybuilding awards back then. Aich was awesome for his height by the standards of the day. Even future master actor Sean Connery saw fit to don posing trunks and compete in bodybuilding in those days. Aich still sports a built physique with admirable bicep development last I heard, despite his advanced age. I call good genetics in his case also…
I think we can lay off the nube and his ignorance about steroids, and discuss the issue, or someone just start a new OP and phrase it right.
I think the question is interesting in several respects. When I was a college athlete, D-bol from your "team doc" was legal, and everyone immediately felt if they didn't take it they were missing out on getting an "edge." My senior year, the docs stopped wanting to give it out, and it put me in the situation of most athletes today. My sport had relatively little potential for money (track and OL in the late 70's), but if I had been a football player, baseball, etc, the size and strength advantage AAS can give could translate into MILLIONS OF DOLLARS. Our culture is all about being the biggest, the best, etc. People will take or do almost anything to reach elite status if there is a high reward factor; money, fame, or whatever. Now actors, models, lots of non-athletes are using gear to get buff for their roles or for other reasons.
We can't escape performance enhancing drugs in our culture, but we can attempt to individually look at our motivations, and we can strive to look for the healthiest methods to achieve what we are after. Some folks are just dumb. I sat across from a world class BB at lunch one time, and as we both ate our tuna, he ragged on me for my near-placebo level use of D-bol. I said
“Pete, what the hell would you have me do?” He said, “Watch”…and he proceded to eat a whole plastic bottle full of Anavar in front of me, plastic included.
I actually thought it was funny then. I just hope we can all get a little smarter and more honest with ourselves about what we do, whether it’s full gear, HRT, pro-hormones, anti-estrogens, whatever. Doc
[quote]Shire wrote:
My opinions:
I’ll be honest anything that is going to shrink my dong is not something I would put into my body.
JoeyD2O your right I don’t know much about biochemistry or the Endocronolgy system. However I do know that the body is incredibly complex and even if one is an expert in said fields you will not fully comprehend the effects on your body(by taking steroids). Therefore I don’t think it’s worth the risk.
I’m not comparing steroids to drug or alcohol abuse. But I always viewed being strong (with a great physique) with a really high standard of health. Steroid use contradicts that.
best regards Shire.[/quote]
Get educated on the matter before you share your opinions. You said your a newbie, so don’t act like a jack ass. The majority of the people here are not newbies and have been training for years. Pharmacology is a part of sport, the second you consume a Red Bull or a cup of coffee to help you in the gym, you are not behaving much differently then anyone else here; you are altering your body chemistry.
Trust me, if steroids shrank your cock, nobody would do them ever.
[quote]scottiscool wrote:
There are rumors that Reeves used some form of test, this stems from other bodybuilders, but in the end what does it matter?[/quote]
Not a damn bit!(Especially when you look like this!)…
I should say sorry for reviving an old thread. But it’s just so damn good.
I think it’s interesting that all the scare tactics employed by governments and mass media to scare people away from steroids ring very similar to the “war on drugs” campaign in general.
The only difference being, the drugs which are demonized so exaggeratedly in “war on drugs” campaigns throughout the world, are in most cases definitely much more dangerous to everyone, while steroids, if used properly seem to be a safe, even healthy, option for adult men.
The end result is the same in both cases. By driving the use underground, they probably increase the likelihood of abuse and complications from not being able to seek proper medical attention.
I wonder who this is making happy…
I love steroids. I’m an older guy and I don’t use or take anything else (except a few beers). Steroids make me feel good, in a good way. I use low doses, enough to get me in the high-normal range, enough to help me stay somewhat lean and to have pretty good muscle size and power.
Steroids are very good for your health also. Low/moderate doses increase muscle mass and bone density, and improve heart health.
When I see steroids abused or demonized by media whores though, I must admit I may get a little 'roid rage! 
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I love steroids. I’m an older guy and I don’t use or take anything else (except a few beers). Steroids make me feel good, in a good way. I use low doses, enough to get me in the high-normal range, enough to help me stay somewhat lean and to have pretty good muscle size and power.
Steroids are very good for your health also. Low/moderate doses increase muscle mass and bone density, and improve heart health.
When I see steroids abused or demonized by media whores though, I must admit I may get a little ‘roid rage! :D[/quote]
If the ladies want HRT or liposuction, no one blinks an eye, yet if an adult male seeks to use test (or cialis/viagra,etc) it’s viewed as cheating(?) and even a crime deserving imprisonment! The anti-roid’ nuts never seem to get the ironic double standard at play here, and if they do, don’t care!..You are a man, you are automatically wrong…
Good response Headhunter. I feel the same way. At 47, lifting for 27 yrs and starting to see signs of aging, AAS and hormones have helped me to regain what I was losing due to age. I look and feel better than I ever did. I’m willing to take the so called risks with AAS. Ideally, I’d like to take them under a doctors care but with the media demonization of AAS, it’s not possible in the US. People should look at someone who does crack or herion after 5 years and someone who does AAS. We’re legally penalized in the same catagory as far as the law goes. We keep our jobs and live responsible lives. Our health and fitness is a lifestyle and major concern. We don’t lose our jobs, ruin our families and mug someone for our next fix. I believe the US is still the best place in the world to live. It’s just too bad that the govt. has alot of fucked up laws.
Better to live one day as a Lion than one hundred years as a sheep
‘Benito Mussolini’ I think,
Just how in the hell was Reeves ever a skinny guy? Unless you’re Dorian Yates or yet another guy with +25% bodyfat, there’s no way he looks comparatively skinny.
[quote]DickBag wrote:
steve reeves wasnt that impressive imo.
i used to think he had the best physique because it was old school and natural and bla bla bla.
but then i grew up.
now he looks like a skinny guy [/quote]
Be a bit more the realist, Emerald! (By what your are saying, Arnold would be considered “skinny” in the above photo with Jusup!)…In Reeves heyday, the autos were big, all metal, with chrome trim. Now look what we drive today. The most beautiful women would be considered “fat” by todays standard, and silicone breast implant technology was unheard of. You cannot, honestly, engage in “time travel” out of context here. I’ve mentioned before about taller men with symmetry & proportion, qualities valued in the 1950’s, appearing deceptively “smaller” in photos and on film (& how Arnold used “planned dis-proportion” to avoid this), yet looking staggeringly “huge” in person. Reeves would look “huge” even today, following the Greco-Roman ideal as a model; but not unsymetrically “monster” like Ruhl or Warren (for example)…We are talking about comparing the proverbial “apples vs. oranges” here. Don’t reflexively compare out of context…
