Why Trump Will "Succeed"

Ya, probably. Whataboutism isn’t party or politician specific that’s for sure. My point was just to point out that it is debatable that the track laid for the last 8 years is the reasons for current economic performance. It’s entirely possible Obama’s policies hindered recovery and performance*.

Personally, I think administrations have a lot less of an impact on the economy, generally, then most people do.

*Note, I’m not maiking the argument one way or the other. I was not a fan if Obama and I’m not a fan of Trump either.

Agreed.

In the NFL, quarterbacks probably get too much credit when the team is winning and too much blame when the team is losing.

In politics, presidents probably get a little too much credit when the economy is doing well and too much blame when things are going poorly. Of course, that doesn’t stop either political party from making the argument favorable to them at a given time, which in turn makes it really hard to take either side seriously.

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Absolutely. I think it’s just human nature to say “The reason is this_______” and just point to one often shallow reason.

I already said they don’t legislate upthread. I was referring to his phrasing.

It’s a rights issue? So you believe that the below is a civil rights issue?

Person A is a part of a protected group. Person A can force Person B (a private citizen) to produce products or perform services against their will.

In this event seems like Person A is a homosexual and Person B is a baker, right?

Would your opinion change if person A was a black person and person B was a doctor?

Should a Muslim be able to force Burger King to cook them a burger on a grill that’s never had pork on it?

Should a hispanic be able to force a public school to teach their kids in spanish?

Should we force women to carry their unborn to term? Oh, wait, they’re not a protected class. Toss this one in the dumpster.

Should a black dentist at a private clinic be forced to provide dental care to his local KKK grandmaster?

This is fun!

Was simply asking a question with the intent of perspective. No need to go full snowflake on me.

I would counter with this is why people can’t have conversations with the intent of hashing out minutia. Not as fun as vidya games, but I guess a little fun.

Lol, Jesus.

Seems like you’re in the mood for some arguing. Figured I’d at least give you legitimate cause to continue

One of the key facts of the case is, the baker is not being asked to do anything he doesn’t normally do in the course of his professional activities. That is, he’s being asked to make a wedding cake, not a gay wedding cake. Thus, at least some of your counterexamples are not germane.

As for the KKK example, it’s not realistic. Everyone knows those guys are too stupid to play chess at that level.

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Not really. I literally just did the same thing you did.

I posited a question to demonstrate that we/you/society/etc is CLEARLY alright with drawing the line somewhere re: private companies can’t discriminate. I’ll go out on a limb and say you don’t believe doctors/teachers should be able to refuse black/etc patients/students for being black/etc (feel free to correct me if I’m wrong).

Your point was unclear, but I would be open to you arguing your intent and point was the exact same as mine.

Probably not literally the same either way though.

This is why it’s such a Fascinating/Controversial/Interesting, not to mention, important decision!

For the future of our society to be shaped by the interaction of these 3 (extreme? absurd?irrational?) people is crazy!

Who ever said private companies can’t discriminate? All the 1964 civil rights act guaranteed was that the government, or anyone who receives federal funding can’t discriminate.

There are resteraunts that won’t let you in without a jacket and tie. There are nightclubs that say “no timberlands, big T shirts or sagging pants”. I have refused to sell to customers because they were stupid. You don’t have a civil or constitutional right to the production of other private citizens.

Except endorse things he doesn’t believe in. If a guy walked into a lefty cake shop and wanted “MAGA” printed on it does he have a right to use government force on the business owner?

Which is literally the same thing I did.

My point is, if protected groups can force private citizens to do what they want, the door swings both ways. Jews forced to serve Neo-Nazis. Blacks forced to serve KKK memebers. So on and so forth.

I’m white, male, and I don’t care what color or religion you are so it’s whatever for me, but my guess is Jews don’t want to service ISIS sympathizers.

It’s a catch 22 and I’ll almost always side with private citizens over the government.

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Making a cake doesn’t constitute an endorsement.

You mean, the gay guys wanted something written on their wedding cake? That doesn’t sound like ‘them.’ If that’s the case, the baker should refuse to make it because of tackiness, and should refer them to the local grocery store to have a sheet cake made with their message instead.

Are you sure?

Those incidents don’t involve (legislated) protected classes.

By statute, in some cases, yes, you do.

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That said, I haven’t followed the cake baking closely, but I think it’s a bad use of litigation. No matter who wins, everyone loses.

There’s no evidence (that I know of) that points to the customers being unable to get the cake baked by someone else (I.e., being “frozen out” of a community by virtue of their class). Since there’s not, this lawsuit appears to a lot of reasonable people as uncompromising zealotry in pursuit of mandating how people should believe, rather than respectfully agreeing to disagree and allowing that respect to prevail.

It’s a case that should have never been brought. It simply adds to growing division in this country.

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Which is why it was brought. Dissenting opinions must not be allowed.

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Also: Why can’t people be forced to purchase from a company? How can I have a right to force someone else to do business with me if that “person” doesn’t have an equal right to my service(money)?

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