Yes. and really on a much longer scale than that.
Well, the original question was to try and figure out why the violence happens.
I tend to think the question, as it is generally asked, is rather disingenuous. I donāt think the right is really trying to figure out a way to work with the frustrated, angry ultra-left people who are committing the violence. I donāt see peace offerings or any sort of outreach. What I do see is blame, belittlement, and returned anger. A lot of nonsensical labeling.
Because being left wing is basically the norm nowadays, therefore, people feel safe in expressing their anger in ways they otherwise wouldnātā¦the same used to be true with regards racism & homophobia etc.
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Damn this is the realest shit Iāve ever read here.
Well, you certainly canāt fix it if you deny the problem. Like the people here claiming those people arenāt real liberals. Liberalism has a violent intolerance problem. They might could do something about it if they recognized it. Maybe conservatives are just trying to raise awareness of the issue. Raising awareness, solution or not, is good right? Lol.
But itās just kind of ridiculous to lay the burden of a solution for liberal violence on conservatives. The solution to irrational violent libs isnāt ever going to be conservatives unless they agree to start macing and punching themselves.
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ok, you said a few things hereā¦
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I didnāt claim these arenāt real liberals. I donāt know anything specific about the group that did the Berkley thing, but Iām perfectly willing to say they represent some facet of liberalism. I mean, theyāre protesting an alt-right conservative figurehead, so that part makes sense. What I disagree with is that these people represent anything larger than a tiny minority of liberals in the US. Literally half-ish of the country is liberal. How many of these people have actually committed violent politically-related activities? The number is extraordinarily small, a fraction of 1%. So it is a problem that SHOULD be relegated to an extremist view, something you seem to disagree with.
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Based on what I just said, Iām hard pressed to say liberalism has a violent intolerance problem.
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āthey might could do something about it if they recognized itā is a ridiculously useless thing to say. Thatās like just saying āopen your eyes manā and expecting something to happen. I would hope that we can come to a more useful idea than that, if our goal really is limiting or eliminating this sort of violence.
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Yes, Iām suggesting that conservatives need to behave better. The constant taunting, the name calling, the bragging, the belittlement, the bullying ABSOLUTELY has relevance here. And that is a conservative problem that it seems conservatives wonāt admit to. I doubt you would admit to that as being a real problem. because sticks and stones, right?
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So ultimately, I think your conclusion that the solution doesnāt involve conservatives is unfounded. If you actually believe that, then this this thread is pointless and stupid, because a) you know as well as I do itās not going to serve the purpose of āopening up liberals eyesā, which is the thing you said is the only thing that will work. And youāre not up for conservatives doing ANYTHING to make things better. This is why I said the whole premise is disingenuous.
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Well, it doesnāt take a lot of violent people to cause big problems. It wasnāt a huge percentage of libs that got into the whole fire bombing thing back in the weather underground days, but a small group can have big impacts. It is also pertinent that the right doesnāt have a parallel. Even the extreme right underbelly of conservatism like the modern KKK and white nationalists are non-violent and vocally anti-violence. The question isnāt how small the percentage is that commit violence, itās what in the liberal ideology allows or even encourages it. And what in mainstream liberals actions enables it. While no, the majority of libs at Berkley didnāt attack people, the mainstream majority was hateful and supporting violent rhetoric. They carry violent signs and spout violent rhetoric. Like mentioned previously if half what the main stream liberals shout were true, violence would be just. If Trump actually were like Hitler mainstream liberal Sarah Silverman would be just in her military coup effort. You canāt seriously make the claim someone is a Nazi who wants to kill all blacks and then get upset when someone hears you and treats that person like an actual Nazi.
How many libs committed violence at Berkley? Way too many. Numbers Iāve seen put them in a minority, but a sizable one in the hundreds. These sorts of numbers are exclusive to the left.
āBut only a minority actually commit violenceā. Well again, a mob of 150 violent criminals may be a small minority (10% by estimates in this case), but itās still way too many. And again, the problem is not just committing the acts, but justifying them. How many main stream liberals spout nonsense that if real would justify violence? A lot.
Assuming itās their problem to fix.
Ok, again the vast preponderance of bullying is by libs, but what should libs do to fix the problem of conservative bullies?
I never said it did or didnāt involve them. Itās ridiculous to make it their responsibility though. And yeah itās pointless. What thread on PWI has ever solved a problem? Iāll hold my breath. Thatās fine to believe, but then why are you here when you donāt have a workable solution?
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no. not at all true. THIS is where I think you make a huge mistake, because you donāt seem to consider conservative rhetoric to be bullying. It absolutely is.
I donāt believe youāve identified the problem correctly, because I DONāT agree that itās a liberal ideological problem. Thereās no way Iām going to convince you of that though, so youāre right, I donāt have a reason to discuss this anymore.
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We may have different definitions of bullying. Public speeches arenāt bullying. I find it hard to call things like name calling bullying. Bullying is using intimidation and threats to make someone do something. No, I donāt see much of that on the right. Even the āalt-rightā. I guess they probably get into some grey area with insults on twitter, but thatās the most of it. Forcing someone to do something through intimidation is mostly a lib thing. Maybe you could give me something specific.
And for the record Iām not a conservative.
And this is what would make any solution impossible.
This sort of thing is the problem. Please notice Milo is one of the Nazis to punch. And the left wonders why violence happens at one of his speeches?
And how is this different from the things Trump said on the campaign trail that were meant to incite violence? Or when he said āIād like to punch him in the faceā?
Also letās not pretend I couldnāt find a youtube video of a conservative video game similar to this with, say, Obama getting punched. Iām certain I could find something in about a minute.
I guess one last thing would be that Milo is a troll, he is TRYING to incite violence because of his love for being both the victim and the hero, and heās a piece of shit alt-right leader in general. I think that has a lot more to do with violence at his speech than āliberals are just violent peopleā.
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it actually took 1 google search. type in āpunch obamaā and see what comes up.
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Well, I agree Trump says stupid shit. Iād even agree that his tilt to state-ism and his brand of rhetoric has started to mirror much of the left. I even agree that if it continues it will become a problem. But thatās all very new. And āIād like to punch him in the faceā and āyou are a nazi who wants to kill womanā arenāt philosophically similar. Trump said heād like to punch a particular person, Hilary blatantly called middle America a bunch of deplorables. Yes, Trump is wrong, but even he isnāt on the same sort of level as main stream libs like Hilary.
Milo is an asshole. He is a very smart one whom is probably right about a lot of stuff. And while No, I donāt think he is a positive influence on politics, heās at least entirely non-violent. But that doesnāt entitle you to blame the victim (which he still is). The violence at his speech is expressly and exclusively the fault of the people calling for violence and committing violence. Milo says mean things, the left calls for, justifies, and commits violence. Again not even comparable.
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Right, you googled and still couldnāt get a good comparison. First and foremost, the other game is āpunch a Naziā. If this Obama game was āpunch a Nier" it would be closer. But even then, a game punching a flamboyant gay immigrant jew you label only as āNaziā is something more sinister. but even with existence, acceptance is different. Mainstream conservatives just plain do not endorse at least publicly something like āpunch a gayā or "punch a nierā in a way that many many main stream libs do.
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oh come on. I posted the first link just because it was a video game of punching a target on the opposite end of the political spectrum, similar to this. If you want to find something horrible like what youāre talking about, google ālynch obamaā. I didnāt want to go there, and certainly didnāt want to post links, but apparently you donāt want to make the easy jump to assume what you should assume happens when you google those words. Thereās no reason to act like I couldnt find links that are EXACTLY what youāre describing, on the front page of a 2 word google search.
Because the people protesting and carrying out violent acts are sheltered noobs to actual violence.
If they ever experienced the exchange of real violence first hand they would be sickened at the thought of it.
Theyāll stop when they actually have to crack somebodys skull to keep from getting gutted like a fish, or catch a brick to the head and can never speak properly again.
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Most here have the wrong take on this. Letās all be happy that the left is burning, looting and destroying major left wing cities and institutions.
Actually, I donāt like the violence but it does speak to a bankrupt philosophy.
And as long as they want to destroy something wellā¦
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There is no right wing equivalent of Madana dreaming of blowing up the Whitehouse, or sarah sivlerman calling for a military coup. Right now it is liberal mainstream to deny the validity of the legitimately and constitutionally elected president. And even more than that you are labeled a radical facsist if you are a liberal that acknowledges the legitimacy of the duly elected president. There is not a conservative parallel to the level of normalization of violence in the liberal ideology.
But for curiosity sake, lets say Iām wrong and the right were as hateful and bigoted as the left and normalized violent speech and signs, what is your answer to the original question. Why is there so much more political violence from the left throughout history?
so now celebrities represent mainstream liberalism? jesus christ dude. Just because celebrities have a voice that can be heard does NOT mean they represent the actual liberal population in any capacity. Youāre diminishing a political view by saying that it is represented by morons who donāt ACTUALLY represent it. Madonna is a fucking 80s pop star and Sarah Silverman is a comedian. Since when do they get to represent mainstream liberals.
You know who does represent mainstream liberals? Mainstream politicians. You know, the people the liberal population is actually voting for. And I have not heard one such representative condone violence in the cases youāve mentioned, or others.
Also, Iām not sure how you can say āthroughout history.ā in your last point. You said earlier the KKK represents an extremist far right view. Does the violence perpetrated by the far left remotely compare to that of the KKK in its heyday? Or lets take a more recent example, since weāve now opened up the history books. Letās talk about the brutal attacks on civil rights protestors who marched and conducted sit ins, just so they wouldnāt be judged by the color of their skin. You REALLY want to go there? The VAST majority of the civil rights movement was violent attacks perpetrated by those on the right. And that was MAINSTREAM, albeit mostly southern, right, at the time. Murder was condoned by right-wing courts when black people were killed. But please, tell me how American history is all about leftists violently lashing out against the right.
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