[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
My point had nothing to with being shot in the head. I’ve been over this I don’t know how many times, but you are asking civilly. All children of Adam are conceived and born dead in sin. All you have to do to go to hell is nothing.
[/quote]
Awesome…so babies go to hell.[/quote]
No that’s why the church invented Purgitory(or at least that’s pretty much what my 6th grade teacher taught us).
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:<<< So if Bin Laden, or someone like him, had a conversion right before he was shot, he would be in heaven now, but Mohandas Gandhi, who to my knowledge never converted, is in hell? True or false? [/quote]Yes that’s true and you know full well I’m gonna say it’s true because I told you that very thing many many months ago. The thief on the cross taught us this. People do not go to heaven because of themselves. They go to heaven because of Jesus who’s righteousness they either have or not. It’s HIS life that gives ME life and all of grace.
I don’t love, adore and worship God because I fear hell. Nothing could be further from my mind. That was taken care of 2000 years ago. I love God because He first loved me. When I was a high criminal dead in sin and fully deserving of His terrible wrath He subdued my stubborn stiff necked will and made me alive in himself. I forsake and war with my sin out of devotion and gratitude. I am afraid of nothing. I mean that. If it weren’t for the fact that I know He still has things for me to do for Him here I’d be happy to die right now.
So don’t worry yerself about settin me up Mike. My life is His. The God who knows the exact number of atoms in His universe and sustains it all by the Word of His power. What are you gonna do to me? Hurt my feelings? LOL!
[/quote]
Beautifully expressed . Disagree with you completely and utterly but a very clear statement of your views and opinions that means I understand where you are coming from. Thank you very much.
[quote]Bambi wrote:<<< Beautifully expressed . Disagree with you completely and utterly but a very clear statement of your views and opinions that means I understand where you are coming from. Thank you very much. >>>[/quote]Ya tease. I knew you didn’t really agree with me. =] Knox would though.
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
You religious people scare the shit out of me. How you think you can draw so many conclusions as fact from the scrawlings of some tripped out dudes on mushrooms over 2000 years ago is beyond me. What the fuck happened to logic and reason?[/quote]
The Gospels are some of the best historical documents the world holds, hell we hold what is written about Alexander the Great as fact, even though it wasn’t written until 400 years after his death. Same goes for Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, &c.
[quote]
I heard that santa claus was actually the second messiah. You know how I know that? I found a book that was written by these dudes who said they actually met the second messiah. He even had a beard and a red suit. They wrote it down in a book so I know its true.[/quote]
Actually, Santa Claus is based off of Saint Nickolaus who was a Bishop that happened to bunch Arius in the mouth, as well as, put gold coins in the shoes of children on the night before Jesus birthday.
See the difference is that Catholics know their history.
[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
My point had nothing to with being shot in the head. I’ve been over this I don’t know how many times, but you are asking civilly. All children of Adam are conceived and born dead in sin. All you have to do to go to hell is nothing.
[/quote]
Awesome…so babies go to hell.[/quote]
No that’s why the church invented Purgitory(or at least that’s pretty much what my 6th grade teacher taught us). [/quote]
I think you’re thinking of limbo. Jews believe in purgatory and the concept has been around way before the Catholic Church.
“Tripped out dudes on mushrooms”, a bunch of bored guys or the pursuit of power through manipulation of the masses via religion. The world has always been about power.
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
“Tripped out dudes on mushrooms”, a bunch of bored guys or the pursuit of power through manipulation of the masses via religion. The world has always been about power.[/quote]
Yes, and they were so bored they decided to happily die for a lie.
[quote]Dbol123 wrote:
wasn’t Christianity disproved a long time ago?[/quote]
Everyone knows Odin is where it is at.
I can’t believe anyone takes these bronze age religions as fact. Interesting? Yes. Wisdom? Yes. Real? No.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
“Tripped out dudes on mushrooms”, a bunch of bored guys or the pursuit of power through manipulation of the masses via religion. The world has always been about power.[/quote]
Yes, and they were so bored they decided to happily die for a lie.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t biblical texts (Old Testament) written by wholly different people than those who died for the religion much later?
I also like Big Banana’s take on this.
If you want to pick a god or a religion, choose one that’s cool like Viking gods. After all, they are all just stories of men.
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
“Tripped out dudes on mushrooms”, a bunch of bored guys or the pursuit of power through manipulation of the masses via religion. The world has always been about power.[/quote]
Yes, and they were so bored they decided to happily die for a lie.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong but weren’t biblical texts (Old Testament) written by wholly different people than those who died for the religion much later?[/quote]
Oh thought we were talking about the tradition of the Catholic Church, not only part of it.
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
I also like Big Banana’s take on this.
If you want to pick a god or a religion, choose one that’s cool like Viking gods. After all, they are all just stories of men.[/quote]
Yeah, because the god that died for the world as a criminal sucks bollocks. I’d also like you to prove the historical account of Jesus death, tomb, resurrection, and martyrdom - plus James and Paul - to be false.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
You religious people scare the shit out of me. How you think you can draw so many conclusions as fact from the scrawlings of some tripped out dudes on mushrooms over 2000 years ago is beyond me. What the fuck happened to logic and reason?[/quote]
The Gospels are some of the best historical documents the world holds, hell we hold what is written about Alexander the Great as fact, even though it wasn’t written until 400 years after his death. Same goes for Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, &c.
[quote]
I heard that santa claus was actually the second messiah. You know how I know that? I found a book that was written by these dudes who said they actually met the second messiah. He even had a beard and a red suit. They wrote it down in a book so I know its true.[/quote]
Actually, Santa Claus is based off of Saint Nickolaus who was a Bishop that happened to bunch Arius in the mouth, as well as, put gold coins in the shoes of children on the night before Jesus birthday.
See the difference is that Catholics know their history.[/quote]
Virtually the entire inhabited world also experienced and recorded his invasions. Unfortuntately Thebes and Tyre(which is no longer an island due to Alexander’s mole) weren’t able to record his visits.
Socrates never wrote anything.
Plato and Aristotle were philosophers not historians.
glad we solved this!
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’d also like you to prove the historical account of Jesus death, tomb, resurrection, and martyrdom - plus James and Paul - to be false.[/quote]Why Chris? WHY?!?!?! Didn’t Jesus teach us in the story of the rich man and Lazarus that if people won’t believe the law and the prophets neither will they believe if one returns from the dead? Learn to choose your battles.
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
You religious people scare the shit out of me. How you think you can draw so many conclusions as fact from the scrawlings of some tripped out dudes on mushrooms over 2000 years ago is beyond me. What the fuck happened to logic and reason?[/quote]
The Gospels are some of the best historical documents the world holds, hell we hold what is written about Alexander the Great as fact, even though it wasn’t written until 400 years after his death. Same goes for Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, &c.
[quote]
I heard that santa claus was actually the second messiah. You know how I know that? I found a book that was written by these dudes who said they actually met the second messiah. He even had a beard and a red suit. They wrote it down in a book so I know its true.[/quote]
Actually, Santa Claus is based off of Saint Nickolaus who was a Bishop that happened to bunch Arius in the mouth, as well as, put gold coins in the shoes of children on the night before Jesus birthday.
See the difference is that Catholics know their history.[/quote]
Virtually the entire inhabited world also experienced and recorded his invasions. Unfortuntately Thebes and Tyre(which is no longer an island due to Alexander’s mole) weren’t able to record his visits.[/quote]
400 years after he died. And the first copy of that we have is about a hundred years after if I remember correctly.
[quote]
2. Socrates never wrote anything.
Never said Socrates wrote anything or that Plato and Aristotle were historians, I said we accept far less stringent academic standards when it comes to accepting facts about these men than what people attempt to put on the Gospels and Jesus. Four accounts of one man written between 4-50 years after his death. Pretty damn good evidence, I’d say. If you think it’s loose standards, then you need to go back to school and study some more history.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Raw Finn wrote:
I also like Big Banana’s take on this.
If you want to pick a god or a religion, choose one that’s cool like Viking gods. After all, they are all just stories of men.[/quote]
Yeah, because the god that died for the world as a criminal sucks bollocks. I’d also like you to prove the historical account of Jesus death, tomb, resurrection, and martyrdom - plus James and Paul - to be false.[/quote]
You make the outlandish claim, you fucking prove it.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]SexMachine wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]MassiveGuns wrote:
You religious people scare the shit out of me. How you think you can draw so many conclusions as fact from the scrawlings of some tripped out dudes on mushrooms over 2000 years ago is beyond me. What the fuck happened to logic and reason?[/quote]
The Gospels are some of the best historical documents the world holds, hell we hold what is written about Alexander the Great as fact, even though it wasn’t written until 400 years after his death. Same goes for Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, &c.
[quote]
I heard that santa claus was actually the second messiah. You know how I know that? I found a book that was written by these dudes who said they actually met the second messiah. He even had a beard and a red suit. They wrote it down in a book so I know its true.[/quote]
Actually, Santa Claus is based off of Saint Nickolaus who was a Bishop that happened to bunch Arius in the mouth, as well as, put gold coins in the shoes of children on the night before Jesus birthday.
See the difference is that Catholics know their history.[/quote]
Virtually the entire inhabited world also experienced and recorded his invasions. Unfortuntately Thebes and Tyre(which is no longer an island due to Alexander’s mole) weren’t able to record his visits.[/quote]
400 years after he died. And the first copy of that we have is about a hundred years after if I remember correctly.
[quote]
2. Socrates never wrote anything.
Never said Socrates wrote anything or that Plato and Aristotle were historians, I said we accept far less stringent academic standards when it comes to accepting facts about these men than what people attempt to put on the Gospels and Jesus. Four accounts of one man written between 4-50 years after his death. Pretty damn good evidence, I’d say. If you think it’s loose standards, then you need to go back to school and study some more history.[/quote]
Correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t these accounts contradictory and written by the most ardent followers of his personality cult? Also, didn’t Arrian describe PLAUSIBLE events like battles/campaigns that actually took place as opposed to magic water/wine tricks, levitation and rising from the dead? In addition, isn’t the fact that Alexander conquered virtually the entire inhabited world before he was 30 corroborating evidence of some sort perhaps?
I’m all for believing in crap if it makes for a more cohesive society and a shared set of values/morals/standards of behaviour etc, but must we compare serious scholarship with religion?
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I’d also like you to prove the historical account of Jesus death, tomb, resurrection, and martyrdom - plus James and Paul - to be false.[/quote]Why Chris? WHY?!?!?! Didn’t Jesus teach us in the story of the rich man and Lazarus that if people won’t believe the law and the prophets neither will they believe if one returns from the dead? Learn to choose your battles.
[/quote]
Tirib - question. If everything is decided by god, and exists to further his glory, how can there be sin?