[quote]Dweezil wrote:
The Hadith is considered a secondary source to the Qur’an, this I recognize. But just because it violates your common sense, because you don’t like it or think it’s accurate, doesn’t mean it isn’t written. There is nothing in the Qur’an that would overrule what the Hadith says with regards to stoning, there’s really no mention of it at all.
If your criteria for considering whether something is valid is if you like it or not, then it’s pretty shitty criteria. There is nothing in the Qur’an that would contradict what the Hadith says on this subject. Therefore, it’s a supplement to the Qur’an, just like most other things in the Hadith, which validates it.[/quote]
I beg to differ. Islam encourages debating ssues that go against common-sense. That is, unless you subscribe to an extremistic school of thought like Wahabism. The quran is the ultimate source in case of litigation. The fact that most people nowadays lack the linguistic skills to do bring to the table their own interpretations is what’s causing a “theological elite” to do the thinking for the sheepish masses. I have extensively studied the life of Mohammed and drew the conclusion that his teachings were against such institutions that are reminescent of the Christian church.
It is also worth noting that the Hadith should only be applied if one is certain of the validity of the said text. You have to understand that Hadiths were deliberately changed or even made up on the spot after the death of the prophet to serve political agendas. This caused a lot of clashes in the Islamic community. At least one century and a half after the death of Mohammed, the Hadith collections (as we know them) started coming out. Forgive me if I’m skeptical of a hadith that promotes stoning to death when the Quran has such verses.
Quran 24:3 “Let no man guilty of adultery or fornication marry any but a woman similarly guilty or an Unbeliever nor let any but such a man or an Unbeliever marry such a woman: to the Believers such a thing is forbidden.”
This settles it for me. But, of course, you’re entitled to your opinion as long as you’re aware of the context of each verse. Proficiency in Arabic is also a must in my opinion as you’d be missing out on all the idioms and delightful (actually divine would be more appropriate here) poetry.
The Arab nations all being dictatorships, no wonder they don’t encourage self-study as it clearly helps in endoctrination.
One of the most overlooked Hadiths in my opinion is: ?One learned man is harder on the devil than a thousand worshippers.?
But then again, the “stoning” debate is as old as Islam itself. Suffice it to say that, among the couple of thousands of Muslims I know, an overwhelming majority is opposed to the “stoning” story. The conservatives can’t hide their ambivalence when it comes to the subject.
There’s absolutely no ambiguity surrounding that verse. It is referring to the after life in that no other religion will be accepted by God.
Again, that all depends on interpretation. One that is familiar with the mercy of the prophet Mohammed towards the “people of the book” and takes the message as a whole, not focusing on the dark spots, would never go for your interpretation.
I think (as every other Muslim) that both Testaments were modified. However, not in their integrality. Granted, I should have refrained from quoting it.
Assuming Iran is trying to acquire nukes, who’s fault is it that Iran is feeling threatened? The Israeli bomb? The 2003 gratuitous invasion of Irak?
Either way, as long as the nuclear powers don’t dismantle their arsenals, other countries will naturally seek to get nukes. Look at the charade that is the UN and you’ll understand what I mean.
[quote]
I don’t think Israel is inherently well-intentioned. I think that America has a large amount of control of Israel, while may conspiracy theorists seem to think that it’s the other way around. Israel knows not to use the bomb unless it’s an incredibly bad situation, because the international fallout for them would be absolutely horrendous. It’s clearly a last resort measure.[/quote]
Actually, it seems to me that it’s rather Israel that control the US. Why else would you spend so much money on arming it, veto anything remotely criticizing its actions at the risk of losing credibility and become hated by the majority of the world?
Hah! Everything you said applies to the US as well. With the exception that the US actually did destroy numerous countries. You also funded more terrorists than Iran could dream of. I see you’re asking the wrong question.
Here’s a better one: Why did Bush refuse to negociate in 2003?
[quote]I don’t think Islam has an inherent hatred of the Jews. I think many Muslims do, and most Arab countries do, as a result of a tremendous amount of history. Believing otherwise is almost comically naive.
[…]
Yes, Jews are not Israelis, Israel does not represent the Jews. My mother maybe 30 years ago had dinner with someone pretty high up in what was then basically the PLO. In Africa. He didn’t know she was a Jew until part way through, and he told her that he didn’t have a problem with her, just the Israelis.[/quote]
There’s a huge contradition in your statement.
I don’t have the time nor the energy to convince you that the early clashes between Muslims and Jews were not because of an inherent hatred, but rather because of Jewish horrendous actions. All I can say is that I have many Jewish friends scattered across the Arab world. I also have Israeli friends that are actively against Zionism.
Sorry about that. My uncle is married to a Lebanese lady, so I feel very strongly about the subject.
What can I say? Do your homework more thouroughly. I heard it first hand from a Lebanese and it was reported by UN agents. Yet, the mainstream failed to mention it
It’s not kidnapping, it’s capture. They were in uniform. What went under your radar, was that a Palestinian doctor and his brother were kidnapped the day before Gilad was captured. Also. incursions were common place prior to the conflict on both sides. There also plenty of evidence that Israel was plannig an attack on Lebanon as early as March. Try to look it up.
Some background on myself. I’m 27, native Arabic speaker, spent 25 years in Morocco, travelled around most Arab countries and oppose all kind of authority besides that of God. Maybe that helps put my posts in perspective.
It seems appropriate to quote Goethe here: “None are more hopelessly enslaved that those who falsely believe they’re free”.