Why Do Westerners Abandon Their Parents?

Off Topic
21

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

EDIT:
From a legal perspective it is in the child’s best interest to ditch the parents in old age. The healthcare system in the US is so disgusting. For example, to put a loved one in a home requires the individual to surrender all of their assets except 1 car and a place to live. Anything they make over 30 grand is taken as an “expense” towards full time care. I can only pray the people who made those policies die of kidney cancer.[/quote]

Can you source this? I’m pretty sure if Medicaid is used it is just the assets of the individual and their spouse (if they have one) and I’ve never seen this $30K figure.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m in a situation where this could totally fuck me so I’d like to read about it. [/quote]

Yeah, ask my Dad… It is a very complicated system and this is the conclusion he arrived at after speaking with lawyers numerous times. If you really need the info I can ask him which agencies to call.

22

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

EDIT:
From a legal perspective it is in the child’s best interest to ditch the parents in old age. The healthcare system in the US is so disgusting. For example, to put a loved one in a home requires the individual to surrender all of their assets except 1 car and a place to live. Anything they make over 30 grand is taken as an “expense” towards full time care. I can only pray the people who made those policies die of kidney cancer.[/quote]

Can you source this? I’m pretty sure if Medicaid is used it is just the assets of the individual and their spouse (if they have one) and I’ve never seen this $30K figure.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m in a situation where this could totally fuck me so I’d like to read about it. [/quote]

Yeah, ask my Dad… It is a very complicated system and this is the conclusion he arrived at after speaking with lawyers numerous times. If you really need the info I can ask him which agencies to call.

[/quote]

It just affects your dad though right? I’ve spoken to a few accountants that have delt with this and briefly (not as a client) with a lawyer about it. Basically, my wife and I are buying a house with an in-law suite for her parents, but her mother might end up in a nursing home if her Parkinson’s and related dementia get worse. It’s my understanding our assets aren’t at risk even though her fathers are.

23

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s my understanding our assets aren’t at risk even though her fathers are. [/quote]

Your understanding is correct.

24

[quote]pushharder wrote:
Oh for fuck’s sake, here we go again.[/quote]

Saw thread title, saw who made the thread, no thanks with any of this

25

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
It’s my understanding our assets aren’t at risk even though her fathers are. [/quote]

Your understanding is correct. [/quote]

Good, that has been the consensus of everyone else I’ve talked to as well.

26

Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.

27

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.[/quote]

Unless the institutionalized relative gave them all their assets within the look-back time-frame, for example, mom gave the kids 300k within a year of needing the home, the kid’s assets are fine and not counted towards the medicade issue. And even then, just the 300k would have to be given back to the mom, therefore the State.

29

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.[/quote]

Unless the institutionalized relative gave them all their assets within the look-back time-frame, for example, mom gave the kids 300k within a year of needing the home, the kid’s assets are fine and not counted towards the medicade issue. And even then, just the 300k would have to be given back to the mom, therefore the State. [/quote]

Isnt that some first class bullshit? Your parent can be dying and the state will look at your 5 year financial history and potentially take everything. It shouldn’t be this painful to get reasonable end of life care.

30

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.[/quote]

Unless the institutionalized relative gave them all their assets within the look-back time-frame, for example, mom gave the kids 300k within a year of needing the home, the kid’s assets are fine and not counted towards the medicade issue. And even then, just the 300k would have to be given back to the mom, therefore the State. [/quote]

Ya, that is how I understood it and that isn’t an issue.

31

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.[/quote]

Unless the institutionalized relative gave them all their assets within the look-back time-frame, for example, mom gave the kids 300k within a year of needing the home, the kid’s assets are fine and not counted towards the medicade issue. And even then, just the 300k would have to be given back to the mom, therefore the State. [/quote]

Isnt that some first class bullshit? Your parent can be dying and the state will look at your 5 year financial history and potentially take everything. It shouldn’t be this painful to get reasonable end of life care.
[/quote]

Not siding with the government at all here, but the idea is to ensure the individual pays for their end of life care, not tax payers, to a certain extend. It really isn’t fair for Person A to give Son A $1,000,000 and then cost tax payers $1,000,000 in Medicaid costs.

32

What constitutes “abandoning”? I can’t see the video because I’m on my work computer, so if it is defined in that video, my apologies.

I wouldn’t say that it’s common for kids to abandon their parents here at all. But if you’re saying that the act of moving out and not living with them any more is abandoning, then I disagree with the definition.

I don’t think it’s a bad thing to stay with your parents, but if you are capable of living on your own then why stay there and crowd the living space? Most people still come around regularly and/or call their parents when they move out. This isn’t abandonment, in my opinion.

Some may even argue that continuing to live with your parents when you don’t need to is a sign of insecurity, regardless of the culture.

Some may stay with their parents because their parents need the help, but many don’t need to physically live there to help them maintain their living situation. But I feel like both scenerios are not uncommon here.

Even in Gran Torino, they didn’t abandon him. They were dooshes, yes. But the movie doesn’t really establish how often they come around, we know they at least come around sometimes by a few of the comments they made.

33

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.[/quote]

Unless the institutionalized relative gave them all their assets within the look-back time-frame, for example, mom gave the kids 300k within a year of needing the home, the kid’s assets are fine and not counted towards the medicade issue. And even then, just the 300k would have to be given back to the mom, therefore the State. [/quote]

Isnt that some first class bullshit? Your parent can be dying and the state will look at your 5 year financial history and potentially take everything. It shouldn’t be this painful to get reasonable end of life care.
[/quote]

Well, the intent is to make sure ultra rich people don’t take advantage of the system by gifting away their entire estate and then living off the welfare state.

Is it bullshit? I suppose, but only when it is hitting people with really modest sums being given to kids, etc (<200k for example.) But there are ways to give your heirs money, you just need to plan.

34

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]Aero51 wrote:
Honestly, I would just spend the money to talk to a lawyer. You never know what sneaky shit can happen.[/quote]

Unless the institutionalized relative gave them all their assets within the look-back time-frame, for example, mom gave the kids 300k within a year of needing the home, the kid’s assets are fine and not counted towards the medicade issue. And even then, just the 300k would have to be given back to the mom, therefore the State. [/quote]

Isnt that some first class bullshit? Your parent can be dying and the state will look at your 5 year financial history and potentially take everything. It shouldn’t be this painful to get reasonable end of life care.
[/quote]

Well, the intent is to make sure ultra rich people don’t take advantage of the system by gifting away their entire estate and then living off the welfare state.

Is it bullshit? I suppose, but only when it is hitting people with really modest sums being given to kids, etc (<200k for example.) But there are ways to give your heirs money, you just need to plan. [/quote]

It can be abused, and that is all I will say regarding this matter.

35

From the name of this thread, I get “Why do American suck?”

What is meant by abandoned? Just putting a person into an assisted living facility does not mean abandonment. For many it means more dignity and more freedom then being taken care of by their children. These places aren’t just old people prisons.

But at the same time there are people who need more help, and having 2 working adults, and kids in school, means you can’t be there all the time. Sometimes that means a nursing home. Most people would rather their parents didn’t need any assistance.

My Father started having physical issues, and we had to have a serious talk to convince him to leave his house. We felt bad, but he did not want to leave his house, and if he stayed there, we doubted he would live a week.

After a stint in the hospital, then a nursing home, he was supposed to move to an assisted living facility. The last 2 were within blocks of my Brother’s house, so he was moving closer to them, though a little farther from me.

Once the situation was in place, he was actually looking forward to it. I think realizing somebody else was going to cook made a big difference to him. He was finding out all the nuisances he was dealing with at home were going away, and as he regained his health, he would be back to driving. He seemed happier then he had been in awhile.

Unfortunately a blood clot, we assume, traveled to his brain while he was headed to physical therapy one morning. This was about a week before he was to move. We thought there was a risk during his surgery, and during the early part of his recovery, but we thought he was over that hump, especially with the doctor saying he was ready to make the move.

I don’t see anything we did as abandoning him.

There is this tenancy to see things being done differently overseas, and assume it’s better for some reason. But different isn’t always better, different is just different.

Many people do keep their elderly parents living with them in less developed countries, not because they care so much more, but because they really don’t have any other options.

The issue here really involves “out of sight, out of mind” type of thinking. It can become too easy to forget that Parent who was put into the retirement facility, but I really don’t think it’s that common, unless it happens to be a slow news day, then it’s an epidemic.

Now as far as paying for these things, the worst thing you can be is middle class. If your rich, you can afford this. If your poor, the government pays it for you. If you’re middle class, neither is likely. But there is insurance that would help cover the cost, so should be checked out. I have heard that the optimal time to purchase this type of insurance is at 60 years.

36

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]TooHuman wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Justliftbrah wrote:
Isn’t it our duty especially men to take care of our parents? [/quote]

If they were good to us, then yes… if they weren’t, then they aren’t entitled to anything.
[/quote]

Well define not being good to us. Beating you senseless for not taking out the trash or being invisible?[/quote]

Any kind of abuse is reason enough to leave a relationship. The difference is children can’t leave parental relationships and are far more vulnerable to their parents than a lover or spouse is, so parents are no exception.[/quote]

lets be honest only a small percentage of parents are abusive. Majority of people can and should take care of their parents but they abandon them because they’re no use to them anymore which is quite sad and pathetic. [/quote]

Where’s your evidence of this claim. Do you know the statistics on how often mothers hit their kids out of anger and how often they regret it immediately afterwords?
For example, 80%+ of British mothers spank their infant children before the age of 1 year old.

The average toddler gets hit 900+ times a year by their parents.
The difference is that unlike in Sweden(just an example) where all physical hitting by parents is considered the same as any other assault, in most of the world it’s brushed off as punishment for acting “bad”.

The reality is that most spanking isn’t done as punishment, but instead re-actively out of anger when parents feel stressed, tired, etc…

You wouldn’t apologize for that kind of bullshit excuse for a man hitting his wife and you wouldn’t question for a minute why she left him. It’s no different morally for parents.[/quote]

So you’re blaming it solely on parents and not on the selfishness of offspring’s? In China now that the country is becoming more and more westernized they are abandoning traditional Confucius values. So have parents begun abusing their kids in China? Is that the reason why they are abandoning them? Or is because they too have begun adopting westernized culture and therefore abandoned traditional values.
[/quote]

How is leaving an abusive relationship selfish?
I don’t know what you mean by “westernized” exactly, but the Chinese largely abandoned Confuscianism 100 years ago and traditional family values deteriorated massively under the “new culture” socialism. There’s definitely been a resurgence recently, though.
Chinese parents use corporal punishment far more than American parents do, but there’s no good data about how much reactive violence against children goes on.

Also I don’t know what kind of “traditional values” you’re referring to but as far as i’m aware hitting your kid out of anger or stress instead of in a measured punitive manor has never been part of any eastern or western value system.

The increase of adult children leaving the households of their parents or leaving there parents outside of their immediate care probably has more to do with the plateau in birth rates(fewer adult children to contribute care) and general economic stagnation that’s hitting young adults particularly hard. That’s highly speculative, though, so if anyone has better data on how population and youth employment correlate with the dissolution of extended families that would be great.

The more generalized question as to why would someone leave there parents outside their care, I think I’ve answered already.

T

37

Is it that western children abandon their parents or is it that eastern parents force their children to abandon their lifestyle to accommodate their needs?

A question to be considered.

38

Asian parents instil a sense of infinite debt in their children from birth. This means that essentially the children belong/ are owned by their parents and do not have a separate identity, the children’s lives are an extension of the parent’s lives. Looking at this positively, this creates a strong family bond, where the nuclear family is the central focus, negatively speaking this bond means that as their parents age the children are called upon to try and repay their debt. The parents raised the children when the children were helpless and therefore as the parents become helpless the children look after them. It is hard to break from your upbringing.