Why Do Europeans Hate Us?

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:

So, clearly, Austrians are morally superior to Americans, right? And all this time I thought that people pretty much had the same weaknesses everywhere, and pretty much did whatever they could get away with… How foolish of me.

Do not despair I`ll repeat it as often as possible-

Small government, good-

Big government, bad to very, very bad…

Austria, small country, therefore relatively little (in absolute terms) government.

USA, big country + Americans that are easily manipulated and do not give a shit+ plus MIC = murdering, torturing Leviathan.

Gee, Orion, what on earth should all of us who were cursed enough to be born in a big country – no, even worse: a “murdering, torturing Leviathan!” – do, then?

Please, can’t you give us some advice?
[/quote]

You could get rid of your aristocratic ruling class and build a union of states where the federal government only has the authority to do what is explicitly mentioned in, what we could call a “constitution”.

Thomas here has experimented with a few ideas to give you a sense of the general direction.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. (Note: the original hand-written text ended on the phrase “the pursuit of property” rather than “the pursuit of Happiness”[citation needed] but the phrase was changed in subsequent copies in part because it was broader. The latter phrase is used today).

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Some of the things Thomas thinks are worth mentioning:

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. .

[quote]JeffR wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:

So, clearly, Austrians are morally superior to Americans, right? And all this time I thought that people pretty much had the same weaknesses everywhere, and pretty much did whatever they could get away with… How foolish of me.

Do not despair I`ll repeat it as often as possible-

Small government, good-

Big government, bad to very, very bad…

Austria, small country, therefore relatively little (in absolute terms) government.

USA, big country + Americans that are easily manipulated and do not give a shit+ plus MIC = murdering, torturing Leviathan.

bota,

Then how do you explain the unimaginable horrors carried out by your ancestors?

If a small, weak, inconsequential country like austria kills, murders, and maims on such a grand scale, extrapolating to the “Leviathan” U.S. would leave no one alive.

Since you still breathe, it sounds like your theory is flawed.

Thank Goodness.

JeffR

[/quote]

Maybe a few days studying Europes history is in order, don`t you think?

Plus, there is no money in killing me.

[quote]orion wrote:

Maybe a few days studying Europes history is in order, don`t you think?

Plus, there is no money in killing me. [/quote]

bota,

I agree. You need to start studying. However, I wouldn’t tax your brain too much. If I were you, I’d start with austria.

It’s pretty linear and shouldn’t be too hard to follow.

Remember when you claimed that U.S. soldiers weren’t stationed in austria after WWII?

You have work to do.

JeffR

P.S. I have no idea what the “killing” you reference was.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Americans that are easily manipulated and do not give a shit

Oh my! Are you denigrating the American people?

No, sheeple in general

So then, do you mean that there are “sheeple” everywhere? Even in Austria?[/quote]

Never!

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:

Gee, Orion, what on earth should all of us who were cursed enough to be born in a big country – no, even worse: a “murdering, torturing Leviathan!” – do, then?

Please, can’t you give us some advice?

You could get rid of your aristocratic ruling class and build a union of states where the federal government only has the authority to do what is explicitly mentioned in, what we could call a “constitution”.

Thomas here has experimented with a few ideas to give you a sense of the general direction.

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. (Note: the original hand-written text ended on the phrase “the pursuit of property” rather than “the pursuit of Happiness”[citation needed] but the phrase was changed in subsequent copies in part because it was broader. The latter phrase is used today).

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Some of the things Thomas thinks are worth mentioning:

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to complete the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people. .

Orion,

Thank you so much for your lengthy post. Actually, I am somewhat familiar with that information, though.

What I’m asking for is practical, concrete advice for us everyday, common individuals. What should we do? What would YOU do, Orion, if you were unfortunate enough to be a citizen of a “murdering, torturing Leviathan?”

I’m sure you must have some suggestions. Otherwise your ongoing complaining here about how terrible the US is would be a senseless waste of time, no?

PS: Although some of what he listed wasn’t really accurate, that Thomas guy really seems like one great man. Seems he made wonderful contributions to humanity. If even YOU are quoting him, he must have been quite smart! Would you happen to know what country he came from?[/quote]

First, vote Ron Paul!

And learn how to use a gun just in case-

I dunno where he comes from but his family came from Wales and probably (gasp!) the Middle East and he spent a lot of time in France.

[quote]JeffR wrote:
orion wrote:

Maybe a few days studying Europes history is in order, don`t you think?

Plus, there is no money in killing me.

bota,

I agree. You need to start studying. However, I wouldn’t tax your brain too much. If I were you, I’d start with austria.

It’s pretty linear and shouldn’t be too hard to follow.

Remember when you claimed that U.S. soldiers weren’t stationed in austria after WWII?

You have work to do.

JeffR

P.S. I have no idea what the “killing” you reference was.

[/quote]

My vast knowledge about even the most esoteric facts of nature leads me to believe that anyone that wanted to prevent me from breathing might be interested in shortening my lifespan significantly.

Then Austria technically did not exist 1938-1945 so our small country killed none.

Germany however, with her modern army and enormously big state expenditure, 35% of GDP, roughly the same as the US today, killed quite a lot of people.

Once again, a big government with a big nation, hell-bent to build an empire.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Americans that are easily manipulated and do not give a shit

Oh my! Are you denigrating the American people?

No, sheeple in general

So then, do you mean that there are “sheeple” everywhere? Even in Austria?

Never!

Dear Orion,

With all due respect, that just doesn’t seem possible, now does it? I mean, no people are “perfect.”

While I hate to jump to conclusions about one as educated, enlightened and erudite as you clearly are, I am left with no choice but to conclude that one or more of the following must be true:

  1. You are woefully uninformed when it comes to your own country.
  2. You are lying to me and / or are unwilling to recognize your own country’s shortcomings.
  3. You are an ethnocentric bigot.

Sadly, none of these possible explanations reflects well on you.

I’m sorry, but I must say: you are a disappointment, Orion.

[/quote]

I´d say they are more like moople.

That is people that go “moo!” and spend a lot of time in cowsheds.

They either do not require the illusion of freedom, or they think freedom is a warm dry place provided by the state.

On the other hands that leads to less bullshitting since they already know they want to be subjects.

[quote]orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:

So, clearly, Austrians are morally superior to Americans, right? And all this time I thought that people pretty much had the same weaknesses everywhere, and pretty much did whatever they could get away with… How foolish of me.

Do not despair I`ll repeat it as often as possible-

Small government, good-

Big government, bad to very, very bad…

Austria, small country, therefore relatively little (in absolute terms) government.

USA, big country + Americans that are easily manipulated and do not give a shit+ plus MIC = murdering, torturing Leviathan.

[/quote]

The problem with your logic is that small countries are ruinous to global trade and development. Look at Africa, with a lot of little countries, each with their own set of rules and tinpot dictator. And you still get the murdering and torturing…

Americans like the benefits that big government bring — cradle to grave safety nets and the like. A minimalist government means you are on your own. Most here don’t want that. We want the benefits of having a king, w/o the king. (DeToqueville).

If you can think of a better way to get the benefits of having a powerful gov’t without all the attendent evils that come with it, we would hear it gladly.

[quote]Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:
Chushin wrote:
orion wrote:

Gee, Orion, what on earth should all of us who were cursed enough to be born in a big country – no, even worse: a “murdering, torturing Leviathan!” – do, then?

Please, can’t you give us some advice?

Orion,

Thank you so much for your lengthy post. Actually, I am somewhat familiar with that information, though.

What I’m asking for is practical, concrete advice for us everyday, common individuals. What should we do? What would YOU do, Orion, if you were unfortunate enough to be a citizen of a “murdering, torturing Leviathan?”

I’m sure you must have some suggestions. Otherwise your ongoing complaining here about how terrible the US is would be a senseless waste of time, no?

PS: Although some of what he listed wasn’t really accurate, that Thomas guy really seems like one great man. Seems he made wonderful contributions to humanity. If even YOU are quoting him, he must have been quite smart! Would you happen to know what country he came from?

First, vote Ron Paul!

And learn how to use a gun just in case-

I dunno where he comes from but his family came from Wales and probably (gasp!) the Middle East and he spent a lot of time in France.

Dear Orion,

First, I searched high and low and was quite shocked to find out that your Thomas friend was an American!! Can you imagine? An American who was so wise, so great that even you would look up to and respect him enough to quote him! I am so pleased to know that someone from my terrible, despicable country contributed so much to humanity! I was so sure that you’d want to know that I just HAD to write and tell you.

Ok, now, I don’t want to seem TOO critical, but, really, are those 2 suggestions the best you have to offer? I mean I (and a large number of Americans) are already fairly proficient with guns. And some of us are considering voting for Mr. Paul.

But – at the risk of sounding a bit harsh – those are pretty pathetic, ineffectual suggestions from someone who has pretty much filled cyberspace with condemnation of the US, don’t you think?

Surely, given the amount of time and energy that you put into your fine posts detailing the faults of America, you must have some good ideas for how we American members can fix our broken country. Otherwise, what is the point of all that you have addressed to us Americans? Why would you offer us your insightful lectures if you didn’t have some suggestions for how we can change things?

So, again, while I don’t mean to seem overly persistent, allow me to ask:

  1. What should we common, everday Americans do?

  2. If, for some strange reason, you have no suggestions, what is the point of your well-thought-out and well-written posts detailing the faults of America?

As always, my undying respect and gratitude for your wise guidance.

     [/quote]

First of all grasshopper, Jefferson was born in America, but not the USA and certainly not the USA of today.

Then I recommend this path to enlightenment:

Massive tax evasion and a bank account in Switzerland would also be a good idea.

Interesting well written article.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/12/antiamericanism_its_about_amer.html

[quote]hedo wrote:
Interesting well written article.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/12/antiamericanism_its_about_amer.html

[/quote]

Man, oh man! Where do I begin?

Should I start by pointing out the ridicule of phrases such as “the supposed damage to our foreign relations allegedly wrought by George W. Bush” or “Implicit is the notion that George W Bush has tarnished America’s reputation in the world”. That the image of the US abroad has fallen during the last 7 years is not up to debate. It’s a fact.

Then the author goes on about how the French (and essentially all Europeans) are inherently anti-American because they have smaller dicks. Same ol’ ludicrous argument…

Finally, he concludes that “If it wants to be popular abroad, it will have to pay in terms of reduced security” all the while overlooking the elephant in the room. The “pre-emptive” component of every single conflict the US engaged into since WWII. However, The phrase has an iota of truth, in that the more people one kills, the less likely he/she will be attacked by the recently deceased. Even from a pragmatic standpoint the argument fails. Invading Iraq and killing thousands and thousands didn’t improve your security. It made the terror problem worse.

This is certainly not an interesting article. There’s nothing new in it. It’s the same argument people like yourself have been spouting for decades to obscure the underlying causes of the shitty image your country has abroad.

The answer is simple really: The US is viewed as a bully worldwide because it behaves like one. You can’t go around killing people on the other side of the globe and expect people to like you. Doesn’t work that way.

EDIT: Missing format tag.

Why do Americans hate Europeans?

[quote]lixy wrote:
hedo wrote:
Interesting well written article.

http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/12/antiamericanism_its_about_amer.html

Man, oh man! Where do I begin?

Should I start by pointing out the ridicule of phrases such as “the supposed damage to our foreign relations allegedly wrought by George W. Bush” or “Implicit is the notion that George W Bush has tarnished America’s reputation in the world”. That the image of the US abroad has fallen during the last 7 years is not up to debate. It’s a fact.

Then the author goes on about how the French (and essentially all Europeans) are inherently anti-American because they have smaller dicks. Same ol’ ludicrous argument…

Finally, he concludes that [i]“If it wants to be popular abroad, it will have to pay in terms of reduced security”[i] all the while overlooking the elephant in the room. The “pre-emptive” component of every single conflict the US engaged into since WWII. However, The phrase has an iota of truth, in that the more people one kills, the less likely he/she will be attacked by the recently deceased. Even from a pragmatic standpoint the argument fails. Invading Iraq and killing thousands and thousands didn’t improve your security. It made the terror problem worse.

This is certainly not an interesting article. There’s nothing new in it. It’s the same argument people like yourself have been spouting for decades to obscure the underlying causes of the shitty image your country has abroad.

The answer is simple really: The US is viewed as a bully worldwide because it behaves like one. You can’t go around killing people on the other side of the globe and expect people to like you. Doesn’t work that way.[/quote]

You are a well documented bigot. You can begin by realizing your opinion has no value and fucking off.

[quote]molnes wrote:
Why do Americans hate Europeans?[/quote]

Because you are white.

[quote]molnes wrote:
Why do Americans hate Europeans?[/quote]

We don’t. We also are not obsessed by them either.