[quote]roguevampire wrote:
whos to say satan is evil. we only have one books point of view on the matter. He wasn’t evil per se, he just got sick of taking gods shit. wanted to do things his way. [/quote]
Okay, so now we have two sources saying Satan is evil, we also have the Koran, we also have Jewish texts, we have Muslims texts, and we have Catholic doctrines. So, we have hundreds of books point of view on the matter.
[quote]CRisCO wrote:
Not sensing a lot of grace coming from the catholics on this thread[/quote]
I don’t follow.
[quote]Zooguido wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Zooguido wrote:
Guess what he also loves?
Little boys and threatening the general populace with eternal damnation for not conforming to the will of God.[/quote]
I wasn’t aware of the latter, where is your proof?[/quote]
i must be getting trolled[/quote]
No, it is just the usual practice when you make a statement you usually have to produce proof of that being true.
[quote]Zooguido wrote:
You have to be one of the most naive people I have ever met. This is why I make it a point to avoid people like you =/ It’s impossible to keep faith in humanity when people like you continue to deface what little is left of its value.[/quote]
How am I naive? Is it because I said I haven’t seen a valid and sound argument. So, because I ask someone to point me to an argument you make it a point to avoid me, and I make it impossible to keep faith in humanity, and I deface what little is left of its value?
I didn’t know I could cause such a powerful effect just by pointing out that I haven’t seen a valid point. You will have to explain that to me. 
Have a good day.
[quote]Zooguido wrote:
[quote]ZEB wrote:
[quote]Dbol123 wrote:
isn’t it hilarious how some people, in this day and age, actually believe the bible to be something more than fictional allegories… especially after it’s be refuted time after time[/quote]
Oh good another 20 year old Bible scholar.
You know guys I have to blame the parents for a lot of this ignorance. I think many of them used the TV and computer as baby sitter’s. And now here they are on T Nation all ready to point us in the proper direction.
Okay…yeah it’s funny…but sad too.
[/quote]
You know what’s really funny? The fact that you think it’s impossible to be a good and upstanding human being without the aid of Christianity. The atheists I know are a thousand times more honorable and righteous than any of you on this forum and it’s a pity that you think so highly of yourselves when you don’t know the first thing about compassion, respect, and basic human decency.[/quote]
Well, that is wonderful that you know atheists that are good people. Congratulations!
Though it is sad and scandalous when a Christian is not honorable and righteous, I do have to remind everyone of the saying, “We’re not hypocrites because we’re Catholic, we’re Catholics because we’re hypocrites.”
So, on behalf of Christians, I apologize absolutely for their misbehavior.
Have a wonderful day and Godspeed.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Gentile readers of the Torah (the “old testament”) are largely unaware that the written law represented in the Bible is only a partial explaination . It’s essentially an index. Of course it sounds wierd and unclear by itself – it’s an index.
If you are legitimately concerned with the issue of mixed wool/linen, read here:
[/quote]
Impossible! Jews only believe in Sola OT! 
[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
Interesting, can you give some examples?[/quote]
Hammer of Thor, conveniently makes a nice cross.
Pagan shrines work very nicely as Christian Shrines.
Pagan temples with a little furniture adjustment makes for a very nice Cathedral.
Pagan Greek philosophy on angels and demons works very well with Christian understanding of angels and demons.
We’ve been known since the Great Commission to take what is truth and toss what is not. We never claimed to come with every fact, we only claimed to be looking for every fact.
[quote]Zooguido wrote:
more evidence of child abuse in clergy officials
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/31/church-child-protection-chief-caught-with-4-000-child-porn-pictures-115875-23308972/[/quote]
I’ll point out that your title is miss leading because 1) the man is not clergy and 2) the Church sacked him as soon as they found out.
[quote]method_man wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
Actually, I have directly answered your question twice now.
Again, you asked: “Why did G-d create Satan?”
Answer: G-d created Satan to tempt us and refine us so that we can be suitable companions with G-d over eternity.[/quote]
The way you Jews write G-d annoys me.[/quote]
What about the way I write G-d?
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Wow, Chris, I can’t imagine how much hubris it must take to actually brag on how Catholicism “accommodated” paganism. Truly, truly wow.
In this regard “accommodate” is synonymous with “compromise” in case anyone is a-wonderin’.
Wow.[/quote]
I have hubris? Listen here, kettle…
Did I say that we accommodated anyone? No, we mass converted the pagans.
Come at me, bro.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
I have hubris? Listen here, kettle…
Did I say that we accommodated anyone? No, we mass converted the pagans.
Come at me, bro. ;)[/quote]
No, you just took down the upper class and created a new on it’s place. It was a race against the orthodox church before anything else. The actual conversion took several hundred years.
Above is a picture of one of your saints in the making.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<No, it is just the usual practice when you make a statement you usually have to produce proof of that being true.[/quote]Proof? You don’t mean certainty again do ya? [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Hammer of Thor, conveniently makes a nice cross.
Pagan shrines work very nicely as Christian Shrines.
Pagan temples with a little furniture adjustment makes for a very nice Cathedral.
Pagan Greek philosophy on angels and demons works very well with Christian understanding of angels and demons.
We’ve been known since the Great Commission to take what is truth and toss what is not. We never claimed to come with every fact, we only claimed to be looking for every fact.[/quote]And this is why YOU’RE so confused. This mindset is so utterly foreign to the scriptures it takes something like… oh I dunno… the Roman Catholic magesterium? to attempt to declare something so pagan as being of God. When Aristotle is your spiritual and intellectual patriarch I guess you can’t expect much more. You are in for a heartbreakingly tragic rude awakening when you find out that whatever light that church of yours ever had was LOOOOOONG ago taken away Chris.
Thanks for the bible BTW. Without it I’d have no way of confirming how anti Christian that abomination in Rome actually is. Oh how precious is the sense of irony and yes humor displayed by the most high God in this regard. Shoulda kept it under wraps Chris. Now that the reformers, former papist insiders, have let the scriptures outta the bag, people are able to see clearly that whatever else that church may be, it has nothing to do with those ancient books. The canon came just in time. The radical departure (the biblical term is apostasy) was already in full swing. Just as promised btw. I know where the bible came from. I also know where the Christ came from. A nation that did and still does reject Him. This is not new.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<<No, it is just the usual practice when you make a statement you usually have to produce proof of that being true.[/quote]Proof? You don’t mean certainty again do ya? [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Hammer of Thor, conveniently makes a nice cross.
Pagan shrines work very nicely as Christian Shrines.
Pagan temples with a little furniture adjustment makes for a very nice Cathedral.
Pagan Greek philosophy on angels and demons works very well with Christian understanding of angels and demons.
We’ve been known since the Great Commission to take what is truth and toss what is not. We never claimed to come with every fact, we only claimed to be looking for every fact.[/quote]And this is why YOU’RE so confused. This mindset is so utterly foreign to the scriptures it takes something like… oh I dunno… the Roman Catholic magesterium? to attempt to declare something so pagan as being of God. When Aristotle is your spiritual and intellectual patriarch I guess you can’t expect much more. You are in for a heartbreakingly tragic rude awakening when you find out that whatever light that church of yours ever had was LOOOOOONG ago taken away Chris.
Thanks for the bible BTW. Without it I’d have no way of confirming how anti Christian that abomination in Rome actually is. Oh how precious is the sense of irony and yes humor displayed by the most high God in this regard. Shoulda kept it under wraps Chris. Now that the reformers, former papist insiders, have let the scriptures outta the bag, people are able to see clearly that whatever else that church may be, it has nothing to do with those ancient books. The canon came just in time. The radical departure (the biblical term is apostasy) was already in full swing. Just as promised btw. I know where the bible came from. I also know where the Christ came from. A nation that did and still does reject Him. This is not new.
[/quote]
Come on now Tirib and push. There is some serious misinterpretation of Chris’ meaning going on here.
He’s talking about the standard Catholic practice of presenting, not CHANGING, truths to new populations in a manner that they will be familiar and comfortable with and, most importantly, that they will understand. If there was actually some kind of pagan transformation going on, it would be extremely easy to identify, as the Catholic mass is standardized across all countries and languages. There is NO difference between the Mass in Mexico, the one in Japan, and the one in the USA. I can personally confirm this.
Perhaps the examples Chris provided were poor ones, but I can give an example from personal experience. The conversion of the Aztecs. I’m sure both of you will still turn up your noses at my mentioning of Our Lady of Guadalupe, but that’s a different debate for another time. In addition to the Spaniards dismantling the Aztecs’ Templo Mayor among other structures and using the same stones to build their Cathedrals, the apparition of Our Lady of Guadalupe and her resultant image on the tilma were extremely instrumental in the mass conversion of hundreds of thousands of Aztecs, turning Mexico from the most atrocious pagan nightmare state into a state of devout, (mostly) peaceful Catholics practically overnight. There are many, many direct correlations to the Aztec culture contained in that image, and the Aztecs immediately understood those symbols (such as Mary’s standing upon the serpent…Quetzalcoatl) and converted in mass despite the fact that the Spaniards, who were bringing this message to them, had VERY recently diseased, massacred, mistreated, enslaved, raped and done all manner of injustice to them. When you look at the actual historical manner in which that history unfolds, it is downright friggin unfathomable that such a society could go from one extreme to completely the other end in such a short period of time.
I know, I know, we’re little more than pagans ourselves, traded one Aztec god for another,hyperdulia, yadda yadda. I just wanted to clarify what I am pretty sure Chris was trying to get at. There is no “compromise,” ever. We subsume those cultures without forcing them to conform to an alien culture. They don’t get to keep the pagan shit, they get to retain their own culture while adopting an entirely new set of beliefs and values. If that’s a “compromise,” the Catholic church is not the one doing the caving.
[quote]method_man wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
The lonely, misguided, greedy, twisted, black men (or any color men for that matter) who demand money NOW for the sins of folks who preceded him by hundreds of years were also not very original in their writing. Blackmail in various forms has been around for millenia.
[/quote]
It’s not blackmail, it’s justice. But our government would rather piss away tax dollars on the Middle-East than help their own citizens.[/quote]
Justice? LMAO
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
Did you miss the part where I was talking about prefacing my advice? There’s a difference between imposing your own ideology onto your kids (intellectual violence) and offering advice. It’s the same difference as shoving a chicken wing down someone’s throat vs. asking them what they’d like to eat. The former, I would call abusive, selfish and sadistic. Even given what you assumed I meant, the worst you could honestly call me would be neglectful.
[/quote]
Okay, so please explain to me how you would handle the situation I proposed.
[/quote]
Well it wouldn’t exactly be the same situation given that I don’t plan on ignoring my kids ideologically speaking, but If I am to take the core of your example (J/W coming to my door giving answers and my kids begin to listen) then I suppose all I could do is warn them if they’ll give me the time of day and let them do what they think is best.
I don’t agree with you either, but if my kids grew up to be Christian that would be okay with me. They aren’t my property, I have no right to tell them what they can and cannot think.
Perhaps they would debate me as you all have debated me here and maybe I change their minds, maybe I don’t, it doesn’t matter because they are people in their own right and I respect their right to make decisions for themselves. The same goes for anyone else I know IRL. I don’t go around looking for an opportunity to wage intellectual war on other people. [/quote]
Thanks for explaining.
Let’s take this line of thinking a step further then, if you don’t mind.
Would you at least be willing to tell, not advise, your child that murder, robbery, exploitation, rape, selfishness and lying malevolently are always bad and always to be avoided under all circumstances? (Again, keeping things simple, I don’t care if killing a baby will save five million people, I’m talking about the act itself applied generally). Can we both at least agree that there are certain acts that are wholly incorrigible, with absolutely no redemptive aspect, that will never be tolerated by you, the parent, under any circumstances?
Yes or no?
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]Zooguido wrote:
more evidence of child abuse in clergy officials
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2011/07/31/church-child-protection-chief-caught-with-4-000-child-porn-pictures-115875-23308972/[/quote]
I’ll point out that your title is miss leading because 1) the man is not clergy and 2) the Church sacked him as soon as they found out.[/quote]
No, the Church sacked him after they learned of the police investigation. MUCH different.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
whos to say satan is evil. we only have one books point of view on the matter. He wasn’t evil per se, he just got sick of taking gods shit. wanted to do things his way. [/quote]
Okay, so now we have two sources saying Satan is evil, we also have the Koran, we also have Jewish texts, we have Muslims texts, and we have Catholic doctrines. So, we have hundreds of books point of view on the matter.[/quote]
Jewish texts do not say Satan is “evil.” They say he is an angel tasked by G-d to tempt man, and so to bring certain men in a voluntary relationship with G-d.
See: The Book of Job, for example.
Now, as a practical, on-Earth, matter, the difference between the Jewish view of an angel with the task of tempting us and the Christian view of a rebellious angel is zero, as both do the same thing.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]TigerTime wrote:
…I’ve already said that assuming these rules only apply if given directly to you, then all of the bible is obsolete…
[/quote]
PittTigerBulllTime, this is the last time I will go over this. If you don’t get it you will be hereby dismissed as far as I am concerned. The shellfish/clothing regulation was given directly to Hebrews and only to Hebrews. I am not Hebrew/Jewish. I am a Gentile. Therefore I am not bound nor ever was to Hebrew civil/ceremonial/hygiene laws.
The fact that I am not nor ever was bound to those laws does not in any shape, form or fashion render the Bible obsolete.
There ARE certain MORAL laws that transcend the Jewish/Gentile distinction and the Old Testament/New Testament partition. Clothing and shellfish regulations are NOT moral laws.
Now I am done with what is so ridiculously elementary that I am completely annoyed I let a squirt whose testicles just dropped into his scrotum a few relatively short moons ago draw me into this.
[/quote]
Although I still maintain you are an ASSHOLE , I do at least give you 2 points for knowing how to retrieve info from the Bible , that being said fuck you
[/quote]
I’ll confess I’m pretty rough on you but an objective observer would have to admit you deserve it.
Thing is, you could’ve easily retrieved the same information I did here in the mighty and grand age of the internet. Like you said, “that wasn’t hard.”[/quote]
I agree I am a Cave man in today’s technology, I manage my affairs fine on line , I do know it is how you word your searches to get the desired results . Just curious , how did you word your search to find the answer to the question about God being only one ?
You are not tough on me , i couldn’t give a fuck what any one thinks of me on an anonymous forum.
And in my defense, if not for people like me , this forum would be a bunch of so called conservative pounding their puds seeing who can get off first,
And if you are only dealing with questions that have not been asked before, can not be searched for than this forum would have no traffic. All questions have been asked before and all questions have (AN) answer some where on the WEB, even if it is not correct
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
[quote]roguevampire wrote:
whos to say satan is evil. we only have one books point of view on the matter. He wasn’t evil per se, he just got sick of taking gods shit. wanted to do things his way. [/quote]
Okay, so now we have two sources saying Satan is evil, we also have the Koran, we also have Jewish texts, we have Muslims texts, and we have Catholic doctrines. So, we have hundreds of books point of view on the matter.[/quote]
I wanted this to be a distinct answer from my previous post.
Judaism and (I suspect) Christianity define “evil” or “sin” as “something that is against G-d’s will for us to do.”
This is fine, assuming a good and caring G-d, who wants the best for us. And, as you witness the consequences of sin (say, adultery, murder, theft, greed, cruelty), it is pretty clear that sin is NOT the best course for a happy life.
That said (and here is the thread hijack), the moment I knew I distrusted Obama on a personal level was an interview he did when he was asked to define “sin” — he answered “something against MY morals.”
In short, Obama ibelieves s a god to himself — Obama believes he decides what is sin and not sin.
It was a small thing, but unbelieveably telling.
Talk about chutzpah.
