Why Aren't We More Competitive?

Off Topic
21

stokedporcupine,

I appreciate your reply.

i still disagree with many of your points, of course, as you do mine.

i disagree strongly with your analysis that the only reason our military is strong is because of our logistical ability. once we get there, we still have to win the war. as i recall, very vividly, we had the Iraqi army throwing down weapons when met with “toe-to-toe” fighting. I should know. I was there.

our military is strong due in part to our logistical ability, and any good military tactition will tell you that the key to winning wars is logistics. however, our military technology is far, far beyond anyone elses, unless they use ours.

we also (and there is no argueing this point with me, im pretty hard-headed when it comes to this point) have the best trained, best shooting, toughest military men and women in the world. when we get into a fire fight we might lose, we do not throw our weapons in the air and surrender. we stay and fight. we can hit targets at 300 meters, consistently. we train day and night, in all conditions, in situations hopefully assimilating combat.

one thing that i do agree with you on is that part of the United States’ advantage in many areas is due to people not born here. But that is what America is. An American is not someone who was born here. An American is anyone who is granted a citizenship by the US government. Birth is one of many ways to become a citizen.

Our advantage in military technology stemmed from German defectors during and after WWII. Regardless of where they were born and what language they speak, they came to America to become citizens, regardless of the reasons. Therefore, their knowledge became an advantage to all people of the US, whether they were born here or not.

America was built and grown by immigrants, and will continue to do so. To say that immigrants are the reason for our success is not a insult, rather a supporting argument for what makes the country so great.

How many on this board only say that they are Americans?(if you are actually an american, my apologies to the Canadians, Brits, and others on this board)

I know I will answer first that I am an American, however, I will also say that I am third-generation Scandanavian and part Native American. Thats who we are. Americans, but with heritage stemming from all parts of the world.

22

…and since i have apparently hijacked the shit out of this thread, i apologize to the OP.

im out.

23

[quote]grappler_123 wrote:
stokedporcupine,

I appreciate your reply.

i still disagree with many of your points, of course, as you do mine.

i disagree strongly with your analysis that the only reason our military is strong is because of our logistical ability. once we get there, we still have to win the war. as i recall, very vividly, we had the Iraqi army throwing down weapons when met with “toe-to-toe” fighting. I should know. I was there.

our military is strong due in part to our logistical ability, and any good military tactition will tell you that the key to winning wars is logistics. however, our military technology is far, far beyond anyone elses, unless they use ours.

we also (and there is no argueing this point with me, im pretty hard-headed when it comes to this point) have the best trained, best shooting, toughest military men and women in the world. when we get into a fire fight we might lose, we do not throw our weapons in the air and surrender. we stay and fight. we can hit targets at 300 meters, consistently. we train day and night, in all conditions, in situations hopefully assimilating combat.

one thing that i do agree with you on is that part of the United States’ advantage in many areas is due to people not born here. But that is what America is. An American is not someone who was born here. An American is anyone who is granted a citizenship by the US government. Birth is one of many ways to become a citizen.

Our advantage in military technology stemmed from German defectors during and after WWII. Regardless of where they were born and what language they speak, they came to America to become citizens, regardless of the reasons. Therefore, their knowledge became an advantage to all people of the US, whether they were born here or not.

America was built and grown by immigrants, and will continue to do so. To say that immigrants are the reason for our success is not a insult, rather a supporting argument for what makes the country so great.

How many on this board only say that they are Americans?(if you are actually an american, my apologies to the Canadians, Brits, and others on this board)

I know I will answer first that I am an American, however, I will also say that I am third-generation Scandanavian and part Native American. Thats who we are. Americans, but with heritage stemming from all parts of the world.[/quote]

about the military stuff, you know more then i do. i would think though Iraq is a bad example. direct conventional confrontations with China or Russia would be different. i don’t see us marching into red square like we marched into Bagdad.

and about the immigrants, i agree with you that intellectual immigration is a good thing, and is how American universities got to where they are today. The problem is though that the intellectual immigration of today is not like that of the first half of the 20th century. whereas immigrants before moved to the united states for the sake of moving to the united states, many of the foreigners attending American universities today have no intention of living or working here. They come here for grad school, and then move back home. If they do not move back home, its only because they find a better opportunity here. as soon as they opportunity disappears (ie, Microsoft moves its programing center to India, etc…), they go back home.

further complicating the immigrant issue is that as others have pointed out, many of our grad schools are NOT very good anymore. save the elite school’s like Harvard and Princeton, grad schools elsewhere are normally better. There are still obviously a lot of technical jobs here though, so often times the immigrants arn’t even attending school here, merely coming for a job.

so, like i said, i have no problem with the sort of intellectual immigration you describe. the problem is that that sort of thing ended with the German scientists after WWII. The majority of immigrants today feel no obligation to the united states, and generally either leave after their schooling is complete, or only come here for a job after they have already completed their schooling elsewhere. either way, someone is getting shafted.