[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Because money somehow got placed above everything else.
Corporate criminals (when caught) face more jail time than rapists.[/quote]
This is such an unfair statement.
A rapist destroys one life, a few dozened at best.
If you tank a pension fund ENRON style you destroy the lives of tens of thousands of people who you had a fiduciary relationship with.
[quote]orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
orion wrote:
hoosegow wrote:
This is some funny ass shit OP. I haven’t heard of any bank or corporation forcing anybody to do anything. Robbing and stealing from people is a right only held by the US government. Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It is called taxation.
That is not entirely true, banks have that right too. It is called fractional reserve banking.
Please explain how fractional reserve banking is the same as taxation.
Because whenever they create money out of thin air they practically steal from you. So if taxation equals stealing as the post before mine claimed, banks can do that too.
This is stretch. Let’s say we were on a gold standard and there was no fractional reserve banking. Would a new discovery of large gold deposits be stealing from you?
Money is like any other comodity. More can be created and lower the price. The problem is effectively outlawing other forms of competing currency.
We would see the same problem if required all transactions to be in corn. Corn growers would have complete control of currency. Growing more corn wouldn’t be the problem. Not allowing people to ignor corn as a form of currency would be.
There are two problems with this, leading back to one source. Gold is limited and you have to work to get it out of the ground.
So,
A. Creating new money buy lending out more money than you have is not the same as digging actual gold out of the ground. The first misleads people and causes them economics harm, the second is an ordinary process in any market economy, when there is more of an actual good what you own is worth less.
B. Even if they started digging like mad, they could inflate the currency with what percentage each year? There is no chance of tripling it in mere decades.
Ultimately I think that you are right though and that simply removing the government monopoly on money would also kill fractional reserve banking.
I just cannot get over the fact that it is fraudulent and would never be accepted in any other business and this is one of the few areas where I believe in government intervention.-[/quote]
Your interpretation of how the process of fractional reserve banking actually works seems to be very different to my own. The way I understand it, banks certainly don’t “create money out of thin air”.
The printing of fiat currency is what causes the money supply to expand. Fractional reserve banking is not the true culprit behind inflation.
[quote]Regular Gonzalez wrote:
orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
orion wrote:
hoosegow wrote:
This is some funny ass shit OP. I haven’t heard of any bank or corporation forcing anybody to do anything. Robbing and stealing from people is a right only held by the US government. Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It is called taxation.
That is not entirely true, banks have that right too. It is called fractional reserve banking.
Please explain how fractional reserve banking is the same as taxation.
Because whenever they create money out of thin air they practically steal from you. So if taxation equals stealing as the post before mine claimed, banks can do that too.
This is stretch. Let’s say we were on a gold standard and there was no fractional reserve banking. Would a new discovery of large gold deposits be stealing from you?
Money is like any other comodity. More can be created and lower the price. The problem is effectively outlawing other forms of competing currency.
We would see the same problem if required all transactions to be in corn. Corn growers would have complete control of currency. Growing more corn wouldn’t be the problem. Not allowing people to ignor corn as a form of currency would be.
There are two problems with this, leading back to one source. Gold is limited and you have to work to get it out of the ground.
So,
A. Creating new money buy lending out more money than you have is not the same as digging actual gold out of the ground. The first misleads people and causes them economics harm, the second is an ordinary process in any market economy, when there is more of an actual good what you own is worth less.
B. Even if they started digging like mad, they could inflate the currency with what percentage each year? There is no chance of tripling it in mere decades.
Ultimately I think that you are right though and that simply removing the government monopoly on money would also kill fractional reserve banking.
I just cannot get over the fact that it is fraudulent and would never be accepted in any other business and this is one of the few areas where I believe in government intervention.-
Your interpretation of how the process of fractional reserve banking actually works seems to be very different to my own. The way I understand it, banks certainly don’t “create money out of thin air”.
The printing of fiat currency is what causes the money supply to expand. Fractional reserve banking is not the true culprit behind inflation. [/quote]
Really?
The money supply in banks has deflated so much that you do not experience rising prices even though the FED has been inflating like grazy.
Right now prices should be dropping like stones.
Also what else do you think happens when banks lend out money they do not have? Of course this creates money and as sure as the FED creating money that also creates inflation.
In fact the overwhelming amount of money is created in the private sector through fractional reserve banking.
[quote]orion wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
orion wrote:
dhickey wrote:
orion wrote:
Regular Gonzalez wrote:
orion wrote:
hoosegow wrote:
This is some funny ass shit OP. I haven’t heard of any bank or corporation forcing anybody to do anything. Robbing and stealing from people is a right only held by the US government. Perhaps you’ve heard of it. It is called taxation.
That is not entirely true, banks have that right too. It is called fractional reserve banking.
Please explain how fractional reserve banking is the same as taxation.
Because whenever they create money out of thin air they practically steal from you. So if taxation equals stealing as the post before mine claimed, banks can do that too.
This is stretch. Let’s say we were on a gold standard and there was no fractional reserve banking. Would a new discovery of large gold deposits be stealing from you?
Money is like any other comodity. More can be created and lower the price. The problem is effectively outlawing other forms of competing currency.
We would see the same problem if required all transactions to be in corn. Corn growers would have complete control of currency. Growing more corn wouldn’t be the problem. Not allowing people to ignor corn as a form of currency would be.
There are two problems with this, leading back to one source. Gold is limited and you have to work to get it out of the ground.
So,
A. Creating new money buy lending out more money than you have is not the same as digging actual gold out of the ground. The first misleads people and causes them economics harm, the second is an ordinary process in any market economy, when there is more of an actual good what you own is worth less.
B. Even if they started digging like mad, they could inflate the currency with what percentage each year? There is no chance of tripling it in mere decades.
Ultimately I think that you are right though and that simply removing the government monopoly on money would also kill fractional reserve banking.
I just cannot get over the fact that it is fraudulent and would never be accepted in any other business and this is one of the few areas where I believe in government intervention.-
Your interpretation of how the process of fractional reserve banking actually works seems to be very different to my own. The way I understand it, banks certainly don’t “create money out of thin air”.
The printing of fiat currency is what causes the money supply to expand. Fractional reserve banking is not the true culprit behind inflation.
Really?
The money supply in banks has deflated so much that you do not experience rising prices even though the FED has been inflating like grazy.
Right now prices should be dropping like stones.
Also what else do you think happens when banks lend out money they do not have? Of course this creates money and as sure as the FED creating money that also creates inflation.
In fact the overwhelming amount of money is created in the private sector through fractional reserve banking.
[/quote]
Ok, I agree with the way fractional reserve lending is described in the table.
When you mentioned money being created out of thin air, I thought you were one of those people who falsely believe that a 20 percent fractional reserve means that if a person deposits $20k into a bank account, the bank receiving the deposit can then lend out $100k against that deposit.
The following article gives a good explanation of why fractional reserve banking in and of itself does not produce new money.
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_04/tlaga010504.html
[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
clip11 wrote:
And its ok? But if someone does it to a bank or corporation its “wrong” and “immoral”? A multi billion dollar bank cheats and gouges people by charging them high fees etc is ok, but a man who may rob a bank because he’s in a desperate situation is a criminal when
Banks and Corporations don’t rob anyone. They offer contracts which people sign without reading and then complain about.[/quote]
Banks and Corporations used false information in a fraudulent manner. When people sign contracts with banks and corps, they are investing in what they believe to be truthful information. Banks and investors knew this shit was going on, and that the bubble eventually pop. Look at Anthony Mozilo, the CEO of Countrywide who bought up a bunch of stock in his company and then cashed out before the shit hit the fan. He KNEW like they all did.
[quote]clip11 wrote:
MaximusB wrote:
You can harass the ever living shit out of me if I get to keep someone else’s millions.
Same here!
And speaking of Madoff stealing billions…if I had to go to prison for 3 or 4 years for stealing billions of dollars that I get to keep, id steal that money like a motherfucker! Ill be 23 this year, so after 4 years id be 27 and out of the joint with a few billion to my name.[/quote]
He isn’t going to get 3 or 4 years, he will probably get 25 or more just like Bernard Ebbers. I met guys in Fed prison who got alot more time then 3-4 years and stole alot less than billions. He will die in prison.