[quote]squating_bear wrote:
They had decided to be ruled by day 3
They may have later enjoyed the thought that they were ruling Samuel. That feeling of power may have even been part of the selling point, but Samuel was the only former slave that did not decide to be ruled
Yea they are fictional characters but the thought processes are realistic enough, in my opinion[/quote]
Au contraire, they believed they were in charge; that they were too ignorant to realize they were still being ruled does not mean that they consciously chose to be ruled. Remember, the former slaves did not know how to run a plantation, so they had to appoint their former master to run it. They believed they were in charge, exactly as many Americans believe. Obviously, people often choose to be controlled, but they do not realize that. That was my point.
If my wife asks me for a glass of water and I put a lethal dose of poison in it before giving it to her, and she then drinks it and dies, she has no more chosen to kill herself than people choose to be ruled.
Samuel = Morpheus
He just doesn’t radiate as much coolness/power/authority/understanding
By day three they choose against the red pill, metaphorically speaking. They don’t need to actually choose the blue pill, that is a clever trick by Morpheus
Your analogy is off because they were enslaved by this guy before, and governments have enslaved many people before. It would be more like if a man kept slipping a woman roofies, and she kept coming back for more. Maybe she’s crazy. Maybe she likes it. Maybe she’s Moslem and just can’t bring herself to consent like a normal person due to intense brainwashing at an early age. Maybe she’s smarter and scarier than she looks and poked little holes in all his condoms and its all part of her plan. Maybe all of the above. If she keeps coming back for more, despite the fact all (or even any) of her friends say he’s no good, then I’m sure she has her reasons - however terrible those reasons might seem to some
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
Samuel = Morpheus
He just doesn’t radiate as much coolness/power/authority/understanding
By day three they choose against the red pill, metaphorically speaking. They don’t need to actually choose the blue pill, that is a clever trick by Morpheus
Your analogy is off because they were enslaved by this guy before, and governments have enslaved many people before. It would be more like if a man kept slipping a woman roofies, and she kept coming back for more. Maybe she’s crazy. Maybe she likes it. Maybe she’s Moslem and just can’t bring herself to consent like a normal person due to intense brainwashing at an early age. Maybe she’s smarter and scarier than she looks and poked little holes in all his condoms and its all part of her plan. Maybe all of the above. If she keeps coming back for more, despite the fact all (or even any) of her friends say he’s no good, then I’m sure she has her reasons - however terrible those reasons might seem to some[/quote]
I don’t know anything about Morpheus(a google search indicates he’s a Matrix character), so I can’t comment on that.
You’re right about my analogy. It would be more like a doctor(who is presumed to mean well and have the knowledge to help, and is chosen by the woman) telling a woman she has cancer(she was not feeling particularly bad when she went to the doctor-just flu-like symptoms or something), giving her roofies, telling her the roofies will cure her, raping her while she is unconscious, and her then returning time after time. She has no idea she is being raped, and she believes the doctor is curing her.
Try telling the average American that he is ruled. I imagine he will inform you that because he is allowed to vote, he is not ruled. HE, in fact, is the ruler.
Most of the slaves consent because they are told and believe they are free. I think we are saying pretty much the same thing, but you are saying that someone who is brainwashed still makes conscious decisions, while I say he does not.
I believe the vast, vast majority of our decisions are subconscious and those are just about as important as the conscious ones
Your analogy is still off, you say she has no idea
The reason I say it is a critical and real decision is because they are given an idea and then choose to discard it rather than thinking it through
Samuel makes way too good of a case to just discard like that without having decided against him. They did decide against him
[quote]squating_bear wrote:
I believe the vast, vast majority of our decisions are subconscious and those are just about as important as the conscious ones
Your analogy is still off, you say she has no idea
The reason I say it is a critical and real decision is because they are given an idea and then choose to discard it rather than thinking it through
Samuel makes way too good of a case to just discard like that without having decided against him. They did decide against him[/quote]
I see what you’re saying. I could change my scenario and say that some bum on the street told her he saw the doctor having sex with her, but she laughed at the drunk, and that would make them the same.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
[quote]NickViar wrote:
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
Well , what infrastructure has the market created besides a few logging roads . No electricity. No freeways no schools . probably some where in a days travel for supplies .
The people I am speaking about are your fellow man . Do you care to live in a community or out in nature with you , your gun , fishing pole and gardening utensils ?
[/quote]
You must be kidding…[/quote]
please tell me about this Nickville place , I have never heard of a place like that
[/quote]
It’s actually another planet, inhabited only by single celled organisms
