Only got through the first page but I’m somewhat shocked people would want cocaine to legalized/de-criminalized. That’s silly. Tough to even start an argument as it seems sooo obvious. Living in NYC/Northern NJ most of my life I’ve seen Cocaine completely destroy lives and families in such a short amount of time it’s truly tragic. Sure, doing a couple of bumps at the Xmas party may be ok, but for a lot of people it doesn’t stop there. It turns people into liars and thieves who make up their own reality and take no responsibilty for their actions. People like to joke about crackheads but how many of us would joke if it was our sister, nephew or mother giving $5 blowjobs so they cop some base/crack (I know, let the jokes begin!!!). Sorry, can’t see it…no as far as the sticky green goes…
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Professor 20 something:
Actually, You are even younger than I suspected. You are a 20 something childless child expert! LOL, I wonder why I waste my time? You are utterly clueless. Why don’t you begin a thread about another topic that you have absolutely no experience in and tell us exactly how to do it? Did you ever try to correct someones lifting, but they somehow knew more than you, even though they have never really lifted before? Yea…that’s the feeling that I get discussing child rearing with you.
[/quote]
Using that logic, don’t ever speak on issues concerning the “war in Iraq” unless you are, or have been, in the military. Otherwise, you know not of what you speak.
Just to hit you deeper, you thought I was older because of the way I responded to you. I get that often. That should tell you how “clueless” I really am.
Further, I’m selfish for wanting you to avoid trying to change me or anyone else simply because YOU had a kid? Who is really the selfish one in that scenerio? You want to intrude on my way of life. You basically want me to help raise your kid. Had this issue revolved around money, every conservative would be up in arms about how everyone should take care of their responsibilities. I don’t understand, why the push for personal acceptance of responsibility ONLY when it concerns your pocketbook?
[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
Okay, this is just a question, seriously. At what age is nudity or breasts innappropriate for a child? Toddlers sometimes take baths with their parents, or run around butt naked through the sprinkler. Breasts are the be-all and end-all for the first year are so. When does it become wrong for them to be seen by a child? Maybe not an age, but stage of development then. Seriously, just curious.[/quote]
I would love to hear the answer to this as well. If it were not an issue at all, the child wouldn’t see it as wrong. The parents MAKE IT wrong by their reaction. What exactly is wrong with male or female body parts? In the case of the Superbowl incident, it wasn’t even sexual in nature. That means people created this much noise because of nudity alone? And for less than one second of it? There are way too many people in this country trying to impose their ridiculously strict points of view on everyone else through censorship.
[quote]Joe Weider wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Wow, Professor, I guess you know everything about um…just about everything! Congrats man! You are one very smart guy…That’s why you can write things like this: “I answered your response before you wrote it.” With your almighty powers you are able to ascertain answers to questions which are not even asked. You have “Seer” like abilities.
Hey, I bet being able to devine stuff like this makes him a great doctor![/quote]
People do it all of the time in chess yet you seem to be amazed by it. You and your friend are predictable. Don’t hate me for being able to see it.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Then you have peer pressure which drives a child who has not seen the latest trash to actually want to view it. Do you think it’s a good thing that you have 10, 11 and 12 year old girls dressing like Brittany Spears? GET IT YET?
[/quote]
I just had to touch on this serperately. Where the hell would a 10, 11, or 12 year old get the money to buy clothes to look like Brittany Spears? Exactly where do you think your role as a parent ends?
[quote]Professor X wrote:
People do it all of the time in chess yet you seem to be amazed by it. You and your friend are predictable. Don’t hate me for being able to see it. [/quote]
Sorry, Prof, I don’t hate you, and I’m not all that amazed. Was just tryin’ to inject some humor. My bad!
[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
Okay, this is just a question, seriously. At what age is nudity or breasts innappropriate for a child? Toddlers sometimes take baths with their parents, or run around butt naked through the sprinkler. Breasts are the be-all and end-all for the first year are so. When does it become wrong for them to be seen by a child? Maybe not an age, but stage of development then. Seriously, just curious.[/quote]
Here is your answer: It is appropriate at the time the parent thinks it is, not MTV!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Using that logic, don’t ever speak on issues concerning the “war in Iraq” unless you are, or have been, in the military. Otherwise, you know not of what you speak.
Just to hit you deeper, you thought I was older because of the way I responded to you. I get that often. That should tell you how “clueless” I really am.
Further, I’m selfish for wanting you to avoid trying to change me or anyone else simply because YOU had a kid? Who is really the selfish one in that scenerio? You want to intrude on my way of life. You basically want me to help raise your kid. Had this issue revolved around money, every conservative would be up in arms about how everyone should take care of their responsibilities. I don’t understand, why the push for personal acceptance of responsibility ONLY when it concerns your pocketbook? [/quote]
Great point! You can speak about any topic you like including the war. Don’t think for a second that your idea of combat is going to match the reality of actual combat. If you have never been in combat, or in your case never been a parent, you are missing a good deal of reality. Your interpretation, or misinterpretation (in your case) of exactly how to parent is very much like someone who has never been in combat trying to tell the world what it’s like.
Thanks for bringing that example up. It suits our subject perfectly!
How is placing mature subject matter on at a later time going to “Change you” or your lifestyle? Can’t wait an hour or so to see a “boobie?” Oh come on, your life has to be more exciting that that 
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I would love to hear the answer to this as well. If it were not an issue at all, the child wouldn’t see it as wrong. The parents MAKE IT wrong by their reaction. What exactly is wrong with male or female body parts? In the case of the Superbowl incident, it wasn’t even sexual in nature. That means people created this much noise because of nudity alone? And for less than one second of it? There are way too many people in this country trying to impose their ridiculously strict points of view on everyone else through censorship.
[/quote]
And I’m not one of them. However, let’s not let the media and the pervasive pop culture “impose their view” upon our family values!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
People do it all of the time in chess yet you seem to be amazed by it. You and your friend are predictable. Don’t hate me for being able to see it. [/quote]
The only thing that you see, that you ever see is your own point of view…nothing new there. You have a bit of a runaway ego. Time will have a way of hacking away at that…always does…
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I just had to touch on this serperately. Where the hell would a 10, 11, or 12 year old get the money to buy clothes to look like Brittany Spears? Exactly where do you think your role as a parent ends? [/quote]
(yawn) Okay…once more for those who can’t keep up. Children are influenced by the media, TV, Movies, Magazines, Internet etc. (which is all around us in various forms) and the culture. Some (not most thankfully) parents cave to childrens wishes regarding various things including manner of dress. That then causes others in their peer group (my kids, your future kids etc) to want to explore that style of dress.
Um…this is basic sociology…
[quote]ZEB wrote:
This leads me back to one important point. We do have a culture where breasts are supposed to be covered. Hence, anything that disturbs that “tradition” and exposes that behavior UNANOUNCED to my child, such as a certain Superbowl game, has to be questioned.[/quote]
I don’t see why the Superbowl was such a surprise in the first place. Do you let your children watch MTV or music videos, ZEB? If not, why were you letting them watch a halftime show with Janet, Timberlake, and Nelly? You had to know it was going to contain a lot of grinding, shaking, and girating. Turn the channel. Watch some first-half analysis on FOX Sports. You like FOX, don’t you ZEB?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Those 20 somethings who continually cry “it was only a boob” don’t get it. I agree, it was only a boob, but it is when and where it was done. For the last time: I am not against boobs (hey something is wrong with that line, but I’m leaving it in). I think boobs are a great invention. They also serve a dual purpose which speaks to my desire for efficiency. I simply want to control the content as to what my 7 year old child is exposed to. Who in their right adult mind can argue with that? Parents used to be able to do that about 100% of the time. It’s now not a matter of “turning it off.” As a parent you have no idea what is coming next! Something is wrong with that…right?[/quote]
Where else do you not know “what is coming next?” The Superbowl incident was an isolated incident. TV has ratings, family hour restrictions, and censorship so you usually [i]do[/i] know what is coming.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
There is more of a danger in exposing kids to sex to early, than parents not talking to them about it at all![/quote]
I don’t know if I entirely agree with this. I would think it as least an equal danger. Kids do not need to be exposed to sex too early, but there is a big danger in not talking to them about sex at all. Not pointing fingers, ZEB, I’m just commenting that many, many children never get a “sex talk” or anything remotely close. Kids grow up with no concept of sexual responsibilty or maturity. Be a parent. Raise your own kids, don’t leave it up to the TV.
[quote]
ZEB wrote:
Do you think it’s a good thing that you have 10, 11 and 12 year old girls dressing like Brittany Spears?..Some (not most thankfully) parents cave to childrens wishes regarding various things including manner of dress.[/quote]
Quick side story: Last summer my 6-year-old daughter told me she wanted a “gold bra like Brittany Spears.” I just laughed and told her that, first, she is too young for a bra. And, second, I told her that Brittany only dresses like that for videos, shows, and TV appearances. She doesn’t dress like that everyday, so you don’t need clothes like that. That was a good enough answer for her.
Now that wasn’t so hard was it? I didn’t run out and buy her the Brittany Spears starter kit. I just don’t understand how parents can give into their kids so easily.
Just for the record, I am 20-something and have 2 children, ZEB. My kids are well behaved, but they’re also kids. They know enough not to go nuts at the sight of a breast, but they also laugh when “we see London, we see France…”
I don’t have all the answers in raising kids, so I’m not here to give advice, but I think I’ve done alright so far. I’m sure sure much of it is just luck, but I like the way my kids are growing up.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Here is your answer: It is appropriate at the time the parent thinks it is, not MTV!
[/quote]
I don’t see why a kid under 18 would ever watch MTV if the parents are doing their job. When I got home from school, I would run out to play pickup basketball until it got to dark, then I’d start my homework, an hour or so, and maybe watch 1 show with my parents later on.
If I went to a friends house who had cable TV, they weren’t interested in watching it. You went to play ball, start fires with a magnifying glass, run under the storm sewer, maybe see if the 23 year old hussie next door with the swimming pool and privacy fence was sunbathing topless, climb a tree, throw rocks indescriminantly…
If a kid is spending more than an hour in front of the TV at home on a school night, there’s something wrong I think.
Aside from the Saturday morning cartoons, and by the way, there were plenty of cartoon boobies in the late 70’s and early 80’s-wonderwoman, she-rah. Now there are cartoons with blatant sexual refereces and images that apparently the censors don’t even recognize. The point is, TV is a tool which must be used wisely!
Now if someone is spouting profanity at a ballgame with kids around, I consider that to be assault, and you should defend anyone under the age of 18. This is a hard issue to tackle. It has to be well defined.
As for boobs being notmal to look at, well, boobs developed (along with humans having the largest relative genital size among primates) as signs of sexual maturity and readiness. Australopithicus didn’t wear clothes 3 million years ago, but they had hair, and all humans generally wore breast and genital covering clothes almost all the time. The boobs out african natives from national geographic were staged and atypical.
Although there are still a lot of small farms in Europe, Asia, probably in the US where the kids sleep in the same room as the parents, and yet children are conceived!
And America was born with puritan psychosexual problems. People tend to get fixated on the wrong “problems” such as believing drugs alcohol and pornography are the roots of the problems, when I think they are the outward signs.
[quote]mertdawg wrote:
If a kid is spending more than an hour in front of the TV at home on a school night, there’s something wrong I think. [/quote]
I agree, but kids today are just growing up differently. Or maybe parents are raising kids differently.
I was always outside growing up. Riding my bike, playing football, GI Joe’s in the dirt, smear the queer, kickall, climbimg trees, fighting, basketball, 500, ditch(it was an advanced game of hide-n-seek), and doing whatever. Even in the winter and snow I was ouside throwing snowballs, making forts, etc. I probably speny more time indoors during the winter, but it wasn’t in front of the TV.
Kids today just don’t do that. Drive through neighborhoods with children and you rarely see large outdoor games like when I was young. They’re all inside, online, playing PS2, or watching TV. Get you damn kids outside.
There should be some kind of quota for kids. You can’t officially be 13 until you have climbed 10 large trees and broken at least one bone.
What the hell is it that kids like on TV anyway. Cartoons suck nowadays. When I was a kid, there was like 6 hours of Looney Tunes every Saturday. Saturday morning cartoons was a big deal. I don’t even think it exists, today. Yeah, there’s cartoons; and it’s Saturday at 7 a.m., but they’re not “Saturday morning cartoons!”
Ok, I’m done ranting.
On with the show, this is it!
[quote]malonetd wrote:
mertdawg wrote:
If a kid is spending more than an hour in front of the TV at home on a school night, there’s something wrong I think.
I agree, but kids today are just growing up differently. Or maybe parents are raising kids differently.
I was always outside growing up. Riding my bike, playing football, GI Joe’s in the dirt, smear the queer, kickall, climbimg trees, fighting, basketball, 500, ditch(it was an advanced game of hide-n-seek), and doing whatever. Even in the winter and snow I was ouside throwing snowballs, making forts, etc. I probably speny more time indoors during the winter, but it wasn’t in front of the TV.
Kids today just don’t do that. Drive through neighborhoods with children and you rarely see large outdoor games like when I was young. They’re all inside, online, playing PS2, or watching TV. Get you damn kids outside.
There should be some kind of quota for kids. You can’t officially be 13 until you have climbed 10 large trees and broken at least one bone.
What the hell is it that kids like on TV anyway. Cartoons suck nowadays. When I was a kid, there was like 6 hours of Looney Tunes every Saturday. Saturday morning cartoons was a big deal. I don’t even think it exists, today. Yeah, there’s cartoons; and it’s Saturday at 7 a.m., but they’re not “Saturday morning cartoons!”
Ok, I’m done ranting.
On with the show, this is it![/quote]
dude…
Oveture, curtain lights
this is it, we’ll hit the heights
no more rehearsing and nursing
of parts, we know every part by
heaaaarrrrrrt…
Great stuff.
Just great.
Fair enough. As a parent then, what age do you think it is appropriate?
[quote]ToShinDo wrote:
Here is your answer: It is appropriate at the time the parent thinks it is, not MTV!
Fair enough. As a parent then, what age do you think it is appropriate?
[/quote]
That varies with the child as well as the parents.
[quote]malonetd wrote:
ZEB wrote:
This leads me back to one important point. We do have a culture where breasts are supposed to be covered. Hence, anything that disturbs that “tradition” and exposes that behavior UNANOUNCED to my child, such as a certain Superbowl game, has to be questioned.
I don’t see why the Superbowl was such a surprise in the first place. Do you let your children watch MTV or music videos, ZEB? If not, why were you letting them watch a halftime show with Janet, Timberlake, and Nelly? You had to know it was going to contain a lot of grinding, shaking, and girating. Turn the channel. Watch some first-half analysis on FOX Sports. You like FOX, don’t you ZEB?
ZEB wrote:
Those 20 somethings who continually cry “it was only a boob” don’t get it. I agree, it was only a boob, but it is when and where it was done. For the last time: I am not against boobs (hey something is wrong with that line, but I’m leaving it in). I think boobs are a great invention. They also serve a dual purpose which speaks to my desire for efficiency. I simply want to control the content as to what my 7 year old child is exposed to. Who in their right adult mind can argue with that? Parents used to be able to do that about 100% of the time. It’s now not a matter of “turning it off.” As a parent you have no idea what is coming next! Something is wrong with that…right?
Where else do you not know “what is coming next?” The Superbowl incident was an isolated incident. TV has ratings, family hour restrictions, and censorship so you usually [i]do[/i] know what is coming.
ZEB wrote:
There is more of a danger in exposing kids to sex to early, than parents not talking to them about it at all!
I don’t know if I entirely agree with this. I would think it as least an equal danger. Kids do not need to be exposed to sex too early, but there is a big danger in not talking to them about sex at all. Not pointing fingers, ZEB, I’m just commenting that many, many children never get a “sex talk” or anything remotely close. Kids grow up with no concept of sexual responsibilty or maturity. Be a parent. Raise your own kids, don’t leave it up to the TV.
ZEB wrote:
Do you think it’s a good thing that you have 10, 11 and 12 year old girls dressing like Brittany Spears?..Some (not most thankfully) parents cave to childrens wishes regarding various things including manner of dress.
Quick side story: Last summer my 6-year-old daughter told me she wanted a “gold bra like Brittany Spears.” I just laughed and told her that, first, she is too young for a bra. And, second, I told her that Brittany only dresses like that for videos, shows, and TV appearances. She doesn’t dress like that everyday, so you don’t need clothes like that. That was a good enough answer for her.
Now that wasn’t so hard was it? I didn’t run out and buy her the Brittany Spears starter kit. I just don’t understand how parents can give into their kids so easily.
Just for the record, I am 20-something and have 2 children, ZEB. My kids are well behaved, but they’re also kids. They know enough not to go nuts at the sight of a breast, but they also laugh when “we see London, we see France…”
I don’t have all the answers in raising kids, so I’m not here to give advice, but I think I’ve done alright so far. I’m sure sure much of it is just luck, but I like the way my kids are growing up.[/quote]
My gosh your right! I should have known that Janet Jackson was going to drop her top and display a gyrating boob. If I was a “seer” like the professor I would have known that. Even though no one knew (except perhaps Jackson and company) you make a good point. I should have avoided that dang half time show…
…Hey, wait a second…here’s a good question: Since when did Superbowl half time shows turn into something that are not suitable for children? They slipped that one right in huh? Thank you for making my point about the downward spiral of the media, amd culture in general!
I have to comment on one more thing you said: “Be a parent. Raise your own kids, don’t leave it up to the TV.” I will repeat this for, I think the 4th time: I don’t expect TV, movies, billboards, the Internet, mgazines or any other form of media to “raise my kids.” However, I don’t expect them to attempt to hamper my efforts in raising that child. See the difference?
Oh, and glad you handled the Brittany Spears clothing dilemma appropriately with your niece. Many parents fail to clear that most basic hurdle. Parents (or uncles) didn’t have to deal with those types of things before Hollywood, the recording industry and a host of other media began to disrespect the family. That made it easier on parnents didn’t it?
Take care Maloneted, I’m sure you are a great Dad! Keep up the good work, your kids will thank you for it someday
Yea, I would have to agree that any child spending more than one hour in front of the TV is not the best thing.
Of course, we have all those other messy situations that are indirectly affected by a media which is not family friendly. TV, the internet, etc at friends homes. The influence of such things on the childs peer group etc…again basically making things more difficult than they have to be for the parent. Nothing everyone isn’t already aware of.